Courtesy, manners and tradition

[Cataholic]

Richard, I think I have posted this before, and it goes right in hand with your post. Jonah LOVES to hold the door open for people at his nursery school. (It irritates me, cause it makes me later than I want to be ). You would be amazed at the number of WOMEN- MOTHERS of small children themselves- walk by as if the cannot see a 4 year old holding the door for them. It makes me so flipping angry. The look in his eye sometimes...and, I do not make excuses for them. I tell him, flat out, "they have no manners, Jonah, but, you do and that is great!".

I don't care if they hear or not. And, yes, I realize that is rude of me. You hurt MY feelings, I will deal with it. You hurt my child's feelings, you'll deal with me. Seems fair.

I have held my fair share of doors, elevators, to other women, and they are usually lacking in the 'thank you' department.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I hold the door for ANYONE...male female or unknown -- young or old it really doesn't matter to me..

As the great Betty Freidan said...when a man apologized to her for holding the door..."I would have done the same thing for you if I had gotten there first."

I hold the door for people because it is the polite thing to do...not for the thank you.

(And yes...I am effusive if a young person holds the door for me and thank anyone who does.)

[Cataholic]

I hold the door for people because it is the polite thing to do...not for the thank you.

And, it is polite to utter a thank you, or a smile of recognition.

[Edwina's Secretary]

And, it is polite to utter a thank you, or a smile of recognition.

I can only control what I do ..not the other guy...

I'd like to expand...I hold the door because that is what I was taught to do. Of course a "thank you" is nice and expected. But I do not know if the person's mother just died, they just got fired, they are puzzling out the solution to world peace and are distracted.

So if someone doesn't thank me...I will not let that make me behave in a way that is not polite. Kind of ruins the whole thing, doesn't it?

[Catlady711]

First I had a couple comments individually that sparked something for me, then I'll get on to my general consensus on the matter, not that anyone actually cares but I'll do it anyways because people can always skim past it if they don't want to read it. lol

In school, we had to line up in two rows every morning and follow the teacher to our classroom, girls in their own classroom and boys in theirs. The playground was divided up by a thick white line, so girls and boys didn't mix. We accepted it as normal, even though, today, I can’t see it was an advantage for anyone, it probably made all of us more shy to the opposite sex.

Actually I see a great advantage (18 and under). If both sexes aren't allowed to mix freely then it makes those times (dances, dates etc) more special when they are allowed to mix instead of being taken for granted. If the sexes aren't allowed to mix and are shy with each other, in my opinon, we'd go back to having far less teen pregnancies, although that part would also require society to go back to being shocked when teens are kissing passionately in public, holding hands in public, and hugging freely in affection. That ain't likely to happen again, but it was a combination of societies views and separation or restriction of mixing of sexes that kept the unwed mothers to more of a shocking minimum IMHO.

As you say, if it's at the adult's request, then that's different. I mentioned that I told my neighbor's 10 year old son that he may call me Mary but his mother objected, saying that it's disrespectful.

I ran into that with one family at our church. While I greatly respect them for teaching their children manners and respect, I also think it's disrespectful to teach your children to call someone something they don't care for. To call someone Mr/Mrs when they specifically, and repeatedly ask otherwise is accomplishing the opposite result, it's offensive instead of respectful, IMHO.

Jonah LOVES to hold the door open for people at his nursery school. (It irritates me, cause it makes me later than I want to be ). You would be amazed at the number of WOMEN- MOTHERS of small children themselves- walk by as if the cannot see a 4 year old holding the door for them.

I always make a fuss over the kids that hold the door for me, and usually look them in the eye, bend down a bit, and say 'thank you young man/lady'. The only exceptions I make to that is when some kids try to open a door that's way too big for them and throw a fit if you try to help, or the ones that may open the door but then stand in the way playing so you can't get through. Fortunately I don't encounter too many of those types.


As for my general concensus (sp?) I think it goes a bit deeper than has been touched upon so far. 'Back in the good 'ole days' there was one thing that was fairly constant that is completely missing today, even with the parents in some cases.

When I and my mom were kids the adults were allowed to punish the kids, and not just their own. Whether that meant a spanking, or squeezing your arm, getting down on your level, and staring at you while using a harsh tone didn't matter. The result was the same. Even if you did something wrong and your parents weren't present, there was always an adult around somewhere to catch you, punish you, and would report the incident to your parents who in turn would also punish you. There was no where you could 'get away' with much of anything.

In today's world we don't know or, in some cases, care about our neighbors. So it makes it kinda hard to report any behavior to the parents when you don't know which kid goes with which house. People come and go and ofttimes no one knows the difference.

In today's world if you report the problem to the parents you're lible to get your head bit off with swear words and 'who are you to pick on my child'. (actually have had this happen to me). Given that people tend to not do or say anything anymore, thus 'allowing' bad behaviour to continue and escalate.

In today's world people are under the misconception that you cannot touch a child for any reason. I can't recall where I read the article but there is no law against swatting your child with "some" force, on the behind only, fully clothed, and with an open hand, not leaving any marks or causing physical damage. I know many people, for whatever reason, are against spanking. I suppose that's their right and choice, and not all children actually require spanking to make them mind. I dissagree with the common notion that spanking kids properly, causes them to be violent people. I was raised with spanking, as was most of my family, my mom, my husband and his family, and most of the kids I went to school with. Not one of them has ever been arrested for violent behavior, assault, etc. I think allowing a child to get away with kicking/hitting people without reprocussions teaches them violence far more than spanking ever did. JMHO

Despite the fact that the ways of this world continually depress me, anger me, and drive me absolutely batty at times; there is nothing we can do to change it, unless we want to go the route the Amish/Mennonites have (not a bad idea actually, they have well behaved children).

Things will continue to get worse all the time. I can go on all day for weeks longing for the 'good 'ole days' and complain about modern times, but since there's nothing I can do about it, and I know how I get when I'm like that, I'll just refrain and end my monologue here.

[Twisterdog]

My sister talks a lot about going to school in the fifties and sixties ... she is seventeen years older than me. I swear, she is scarred for life by having to wear a dress every day. She said she has never been so cold in her life as riding a bus, walking to school, or standing out at recess in North Dakota when it was below zero every day, wearing a dress and dress shoes. All this while the boys wore pants, heavy coats and snowboots and had a ball playing. She said even when it was warm ... how do you play in a dress without boys seeing your underwear? So, I have to say good riddance to that silly rule!

I agree with Cataholic ... society has changed its views on children in the last forty years or so. And I think that is a good portion of the perceived change in manners.

It also depends a lot on the family, and the parents doing the teaching. I know a lot of people my sister's age who are rude and crass. And a lot of people my age (I grew up in the 70's and 80's) with very good manners. I was certainly raised to send thank you cards, address elders by Sir, Ma'am, Mr. or Mrs., say please, thank you and pardon me. I hold doors for anyone - doesn't the first one to a door always hold it? And my son, who is seventeen, was taught, and practices those same things, as do many of his friends.

[RICHARD]

(And yes...I am effusive if a young person holds the door for me and thank anyone who does.)

I saw a doctor for my effusion.


Cat,

And don't stop hammering the point home for Jonah, I cannot believe you are irritated for raising a gentleman?

Get a grip woman. That's your legacy and the women in his life will say, "Your mama raised you right!" Of course, you won't be there when that happens, you have to cut the apron strings some day.

Get over your bad self!

[Cataholic]

Cat,

And don't stop hammering the point home for Jonah, I cannot believe you are irritated for raising a gentleman?

Get a grip woman. That's your legacy and the women in his life will say, "Your mama raised you right!" Of course, you won't be there when that happens, you have to cut the apron strings some day.

Get over your bad self!

Go read the other threads, Richard, I won't EVER be cutting those apron strings!

[Medusa]

I hold the door for ANYONE...male female or unknown -- young or old it really doesn't matter to me..

As the great Betty Freidan said...when a man apologized to her for holding the door..."I would have done the same thing for you if I had gotten there first."

I hold the door for people because it is the polite thing to do...not for the thank you.

This is the true reason for courtesy, not because it's expected of us, but because it makes life that much more pleasant for us all.