Is the President attempting to indoctrinate children?

[Catty1]

OK...I am nowhere near as well-informed as everyone here, especially since I don't live in the You-Ess-Eh (my dad's mom was born in 'Warshington' state, though)...but is one address by the President and several days work on his speech really going to brainwash kids for life?

I would hope that some kids, especially if their parents didn't vote for Obama, would create some interesting "discussions" in the classroom.

Even if misguided, it seems to me part of this is to encourage young people to be a part of the solution - national citizen teamwork was something Obama mentioned in his Inaugural speech.

On the other hand - Canada has not had to face first-hand real fears and threats such as the Bay of Pigs, and refugees from Cuba. I can see that anything that smacks remotely of the government taking charge would cause great concern - because no one wants to live in Cuba or Russia!

Canadians have a similar thing going right now - and hope to boot the dictatorial Harper out at the next election (this fall?). Except - there are a lot of cattle that follow the promised decrease in our national sales tax and say that Harper is a good guy. Better look under the carpet of that tax decrease, my fellow Canucks...lot of crap there.

That's it for me.

[Miss Z]

OK...I am nowhere near as well-informed as everyone here, especially since I don't live in the You-Ess-Eh (my dad's mom was born in 'Warshington' state, though)...but is one address by the President and several days work on his speech really going to brainwash kids for life?

I would hope that some kids, especially if their parents didn't vote for Obama, would create some interesting "discussions" in the classroom.

Even if misguided, it seems to me part of this is to encourage young people to be a part of the solution - national citizen teamwork was something Obama mentioned in his Inaugural speech.

I agree with this. I find it slightly strange that something that those kids may actually have enjoyed, or been inspired by, is being taken as something so evil.

I am currently in private education and my parents too pay for the state schools as part of their taxes. We don't particularly like that our money is being spent on someone else's kid when we are forking out fortunes for my education, but we don't begrudge the teaching they are receiving. Even as an independent school, it is mandate that we adhere somewhat to the National Curriculum for the National Qualifications. Gosh, I feel that with our nationalised health system and examinations, we must be such a funny little Marxist country.

I spent a couple of years studying the Red Scare and from some of your posts, blue, it appears as if you're still living in it.

[RICHARD]

I spent a couple of years studying the Red Scare and from some of your posts, blue, it appears as if you're still living in it.

What part of the red scare are you talking about?

Also, could you explain the nat'l quals?

I paid for my education and alas, my poor parents and I paid for my nieces and nephews public schooling, So I am behind the cue ball on this topic.

[Miss Z]

What part of the red scare are you talking about?

The McCarthyism era, mainly. Trying to see 'evil' where there is none. The whole attitude of suspecting every new concept as disturbing and something to be avoided. The idea that those who step out of the ordinary way of things should be ratted on, and that they should withdraw their presence, or have their presence withdrawn, from everyone around them.

Maybe my comparison is extreme. It's just what I was reminded of.

[RICHARD]

The McCarthyism era, mainly. Trying to see 'evil' where there is none. The whole attitude of suspecting every new concept as disturbing and something to be avoided. The idea that those who step out of the ordinary way of things should be ratted on, and that they should withdraw their presence, or have their presence withdrawn, from everyone around them.

Maybe my comparison is extreme. It's just what I was reminded of.

"Mc Carthyism" was a witch hunt.

The "Red Scare" of Communism in places across the planet was a real threat to the countries that were subjected to invasion, coups and Communist influence on the govenerments.

The Mac Red Scare was just a pbunch of paranoid men, with good cause, to try and keep the idea of Communism from infesting our country.

Was it right? Nope. but it's the same freak out mode that most people have had against all polticians and their ideals.


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HCR is a known evil, we see it, feel it and pay for it. IT's not a cloud of smoke we cannot put our hands around and disappears after a few seconds, like the threat of Communism IN our country at that time was.


The boob in the WH wants to slap a coat of white wash over the shiat he'll use to patch the cracks in the system. It will work until the walls get washed or humid weather shows up. Then you get the experience of having sub-standard work done on your home.

Going back to the M era? That was the start of a more 'refined' view of who the Commies were and why we did need to be scared.

I think you also had a bit of the McCarthy song and dance in your country's history? I guess you can compare it to the Religion vs. Science debates the GB of yore sponsored?

Not too many winners in those days.

(P.S. Check out the Salem witch hunts.)

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I worked a few years in the HC industry and way to 'fix' the system is to reform the insurance/tort/malpractice industries.

Leave the actual 'service providers' alone until you fix the boat underneath them.

For the media and elected officials to portray the people who are against the prez' reform as radicals and working against any changes is a patently stupid and dishonest bunch of horse crap.

We want the reform also, but we want a more well thought out attempt at it.
Not some half hearted and ill formed patch work fix.

I venture to say we, as all good Americans are apt to do, don't care about Canadian or Brit HC, we want our own and we want it to be affordable.


Lastly, one of the members of the Dem Party doesn't want to take on the lawyers, who make money hand over fist taking cases where they want to suck millions out of the hospitals, insurance companies, drug manufacturers, medical supply companies and finally the doctors.

IT's amazing how intelligent the people who are behind the prez and his ideas for reform. It's also amazing that the basics of the HC industry can be overlooked. The reformers only see the surface of the pond.

Any trash, muck or potential 'health hazards' stay underwater away from any prying eyes. If you want to know what's underwater you have to roll up your pant legs and go a wading.

Obama is trying to impress upon people that he and they can walk across the pond and not have to worry about any of the crap under their feet.

[Grace]

Getting back to the President's address to school kids. I just read this -

The Florida Republican party chairman who last week accused the president of trying to “indoctrinate America’s children to his socialist agenda” now says he’ll let his children watch what he calls a “good speech,” one the president “should give.”

“It’s a good speech,” Florida GOP chairman Jim Greer said Monday. “It encourages kids to stay in school and the importance of education and I think that’s what a president should do when they’re gonna talk to students across the country.”

In a telephone interview as he headed to Tallahassee for a round of TV interviews ahead of tonight’s FSU-Miami football game, Greer said the White House made “changes” to teacher prep materials – and the speech itself – as a result of the political pressure he applied.

“The speech that’s out today is one that he should give, and I’m pleased to see that the White House has made changes to what was gonna happen.”

and this -

Former first lady Laura Bush is defending President Obama's decision to address the nation's school children, telling CNN Monday that it is "really important for everyone to respect the President of the United States."

"I think that there is a place for the President of the United States to talk to school children and encourage school children, and I think there are a lot of people that should do the same," she told CNN's Zain Verjee, in an interview set to air Monday on The Situation Room. "And that is encourage their own children to stay in school and to study hard and to try to achieve the dream that they have."

The former first lady said she believed criticism of the speech had arisen because of the accompanying lesson plans. If parents are opposed to the address, said Bush, "That's their right. You know that certainly is the right of parents to choose what they want their children to hear in school… (But) I think it's also really important for everyone to respect the President of the United States."

[Edwina's Secretary]

"Mc Carthyism" was a witch hunt.

The "Red Scare" of Communism in places across the planet was a real threat to the countries that were subjected to invasion, coups and Communist influence on the govenerments.

The Mac Red Scare was just a pbunch of paranoid men, with good cause, to try and keep the idea of Communism from infesting our country.

With good cause...never...have I ever heard good cause in the same sentence with the name of Joe McCarthy! Or that he was trying to keep the idea of Communism from infesting the US.

Communism had far more of a chance of catching on during the depression. McCarthy was a drunken baffoon who was trying to make a name for himself using cold war fears. Destroying people's lives.

Good cause indeed!

[Catty1]

I am gently suggesting - only suggesting - that when it comes to anything that might hint of Marxism, Communism or Socialism...many Americans get a case of PTSD, and with good reason.

All the "Socialist" etc countries had a dictatorship-like situation almost from the beginning of their history.

I don't believe it would ever take hold to such an extent in the U.S.A. It doesn't have the long history attached to it in America.

If this health bill is being rammed through without adequate reading, preparation and amendment, then yes, loud protest is needed. I don't think that is right.

Factual change is a good thing, I think; but protest due to a knee-jerk fear reaction because one perceives a possible shade of pink in the proceedings is scary.

JMO. I'm not there, so it's only MO.

[blue]

blue, it appears as if you're still living in it.

I want to make sure we dont revisit those days.

I dont know enough about the UK to call it Marxist, it can be funnay though.

[Edwina's Secretary]

On the other hand - Canada has not had to face first-hand real fears and threats such as the Bay of Pigs, and refugees from Cuba. I can see that anything that smacks remotely of the government taking charge would cause great concern - because no one wants to live in Cuba or Russia!

Catty - sweet of you to care but ...Bay of Pigs was an attempt by the US to send people to Cuba to kill Castro. Refugees from Cuba - most of whom came over in the late 50's were not a threat - well except to the English language in Miami. There was another influx later when Castro let folks leave Cuba - many criminals he wanted rid of. Still not an invasion and still not a threat.

The Cuban missile crisis that occurred after the failed invasion of Cuba involved the Soviet Union - not Russia. And it was about the Soviet Union putting nuclear weapons in Cuba.

I was a very young child when these things happened (although I do remember the drills) and I really, really doubt the fear of Cuba ever existed (it is a poor poor small country) or that the memories of huddling under our school desks because of the missile crisis is what is driving any behavior today. A takeover of the US government was never a part of the equation.

[pomtzu]

I was a very young child when these things happened (although I do remember the drills) and I really, really doubt the fear of Cuba ever existed (it is a poor poor small country) or that the memories of huddling under our school desks because of the missile crisis is what is driving any behavior today. A takeover of the US government was never a part of the equation.

Unfortunately, I remember this all too well. My ex was a Marine stationed at Pendleton and we were newlyweds. I arrived at Pendleton on a Friday morning, and since base housing would not be available for a couple of weeks, we were staying at the Hostess House on base. On Saturday, hubby's brother drove up from San Diego (he was stationed there in the Navy) and drove us down there to stay with him and his family for the weekend (we had no car). When we got back on Sunday night, there was a note on our room door for hubby to report to his c.o. - he was being shipped out to Cuba on Monday morning. Fortunately hubby always had a way with words, and when he explained the situation that he and I were in, he got out of going. I was frantic - imagining I was going to be a widow before I had a chance to be a wife. When we did get housing - it was very strange indeed. It was like a community devoid of men - you basically saw just women and children (and an occasional man) - since the rest had shipped out.
So were we afraid of Cuba?? - I doubt it. But were we afraid of Cuba's leader and what he was capable of?? - you bet. We could have faced annihilation at his hands, so there wouldn't have been any government left to take over.

[Grace]

I was in NYC, a newly graduated RN, when the Cuban Missile crisis happened. My soon-to-be husband was stationed on a Destroyer in Norfolk, Virginia - all leaves were canceled.

I admit, I was more than a wee bit nervous. I figured NYC would be a grand target for one of their missiles. Each night I went to bed, wondering if the city would be there when/if I woke up in the morning.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I still have mushroom cloud nightmares.

I just don't think the Bay of Pigs or the Cuban Missile crisis has anything to do with why some parents are afraid to let their kids listen to Obama. Or think he is a socialist.

I doubt if many parents of school age children today remember 1961 and 1962.

[pomtzu]

I still have mushroom cloud nightmares.

I just don't think the Bay of Pigs or the Cuban Missile crisis has anything to do with why some parents are afraid to let their kids listen to Obama. Or think he is a socialist.

I doubt if many parents of school age children today remember 1961 and 1962.

I was simply commenting on your statement where you said you doubt the fear of Cuba ever existed.

And as far as remembering 1961 and 1962 - I wonder how many people are aware of how truly close to the end that we really were???

[Edwina's Secretary]

I agree with you. It was a terrifying time and incredible close to disaster.

But I believe it was the Soviet Union that was feared - and that was the threat!

I was responding to the suggestion that we feared a Cuban invasion.