Is the President attempting to indoctrinate children?

[Lady's Human]

For someone who is normally strict a constructionist, your stance on public education is puzzling.

It is mandated, first and foremost ,in the constitutions of the many states. This is the ultimate expression of states' rights, as Washington D.C. has helped enforce educational requirements in the state constitutions. Just as certain federal agencies are mandated through the US Constitution and taxes/revenue collection methods are mandated to maintain them, education requirements and taxes to fund them are mandated in state constitutions.

[blue]

For someone who is normally strict a constructionist, your stance on public education is puzzling.

It is mandated, first and foremost ,in the constitutions of the many states. This is the ultimate expression of states' rights, as Washington D.C. has helped enforce educational requirements in the state constitutions. Just as certain federal agencies are mandated through the US Constitution and taxes/revenue collection methods are mandated to maintain them, education requirements and taxes to fund them are mandated in state constitutions.

Not first and formost, from article 7.

§ 1. Public Education

The legislature shall by general law establish and maintain a system of public schools open to all children of the State, and may provide for other public educational institutions. Schools and institutions so established shall be free from sectarian control. No money shall be paid from public funds for the direct benefit of any religious or other private educational institution.

What about parents who dont want to take the public option for their childrens schooling? They still pay taxes, and then they have to pay extra to have their children schooled outside of the public system. In effect they are being punished for educating their children outside of the states controll.

[Lady's Human]

No, they are making a choice.

Before we had children, my wife and I paid taxes to support a school system.

Should we have been exempt from taxes as we had no children in the system? No, as education produces better citizens. (which could be easily interpreted as being for the general welfare of the state)

If your schools are failing, get involved, whether you have children or not. There's no clause in school district meetings that I'm aware of which require you to have children in the system to attend the meetings, speak your peace, and exercise your rights as citizens.

School board officials are elected, not appointed. Don't like the way the school system in your municipality is being run? Vote 'em out.

The failure of schools is as much the fault of the parents and other citizens in the school districts as it is the teachers, if not more so.

[blue]

No, they are making a choice.

Before we had children, my wife and I paid taxes to support a school system.

Should we have been exempt from taxes as we had no children in the system? No, as education produces better citizens. (which could be easily interpreted as being for the general welfare of the state)

The Marxist cause, "For the greater Good". I have to agree however, its better they get any education then none.

If your schools are failing, get involved, whether you have children or not. There's no clause in school district meetings that I'm aware of which require you to have children in the system to attend the meetings, speak your peace, and exercise your rights as citizens.

School board officials are elected, not appointed. Don't like the way the school system in your municipality is being run? Vote 'em out.

The failure of schools is as much the fault of the parents and other citizens in the school districts as it is the teachers, if not more so.

Every chance I get I try to vote out everybody, be it a judge, school board official, heck anybody, even on the utility boards. Give me the chance and Ild vote my own mom off the board of directors of my old credit union.

[Lady's Human]

Yeah, John Adams was one hell of a Marxist.

Pres. Adams wrote the Massachusetts State Constitution of 1780, which served as the role model for much of the rest of the United States.

To quote:


Chapter V, Section II.
The Encouragement of Literature, etc.

Wisdom, and knowledge, as well as virtue, diffused generally among the body of the people, being necessary for the preservation of their rights and liberties; and as these depend on spreading the opportunities and advantages of education in the various parts of the country, and among the different orders of the people, it shall be the duty of legislatures and magistrates, in all future periods of this commonwealth, to cherish the interests of literature and the sciences, and all seminaries of them; especially the university at Cambridge, public schools and grammar schools in the towns; to encourage private societies and public institutions, rewards and immunities, for the promotion of agriculture, arts, sciences, commerce, trades, manufactures, and a natural history of the country; to countenance and inculcate the principles of humanity and general benevolence, public and private charity, industry and frugality, honesty and punctuality in their dealings; sincerity, good humor, and all social affections, and generous sentiments among the people.


Yeah, a real Marxist (well before Marx was born), wanting people to be educated so that they could exercise their rights and flourish as citizens.

[Puckstop31]

For someone who is normally strict a constructionist, your stance on public education is puzzling.

It is mandated, first and foremost ,in the constitutions of the many states. This is the ultimate expression of states' rights, as Washington D.C. has helped enforce educational requirements in the state constitutions. Just as certain federal agencies are mandated through the US Constitution and taxes/revenue collection methods are mandated to maintain them, education requirements and taxes to fund them are mandated in state constitutions.

Thanks LH. I was hoping smoebody would jump in with this.

Personally. I have no problem paying taxes at a LOCAL level to fund a public school system. Further allowing that LOCAL authority the ability to define the curriculum. This would in effect give parents some level of choice.

I take a large issue with fedzilla getting invovled. They place unfunded mandates on the states. They also hold states hostage by not providing other "funding" if they do not teach as fedzilla says they should. Fedzilla makes education a very political thing. What politician runs for office wihtout talking about "money for education", as if MORE money will fix all the "problems"?

All in all, just my $.02. Our children will be homeschooled until at least age 12, at which time will be given a choice, if we think they are ready to really think for themselves. I'd be willing to guranteee that should they choose to go to public schools at that time, it will either be short lived or they will be way ahead of the others. Thats not me simply thumping my chest as a proud parent... Home schooling offers the ability to adjust curriculum to the childs learning style. Personalized education if you will. It takes a dedicated parent who has the time to do all the work involved. We as a family are fortunate to be able to provide that to Hannah and "the next one". Also, I am inspired by my best buddies kids. He has 4 home schooled daughters who are simply amazing. They are smart, polite, have many friends and do all the normal kid things. The oldest, 13, takes a college level Latin class.


Blue - I think it really does behoove you to pay those dang taxes, on the local level, to provide public schools. In today's world, it is just not realistic that all parents can provide for their own kids education. But it is very important for us as a country to have a educated population. Please take into account everything else I have said in this post though. Keep fedzilla OUT of it. It would be nice if we could ditch the public school unions too. I might send Hannah to a public school then.

[RICHARD]

All in all, just my $.02. Our children will be homeschooled until at least age 12, at which time will be given a choice, if we think they are ready to really think for themselves. I'd be willing to guranteee that should they choose to go to public schools at that time, it will either be short lived or they will be way ahead of the others. Thats not me simply thumping my chest as a proud parent... Home schooling offers the ability to adjust curriculum to the childs learning style. Personalized education if you will. It takes a dedicated parent who has the time to do all the work involved. We as a family are fortunate to be able to provide that to Hannah and "the next one". Also, I am inspired by my best buddies kids. He has 4 home schooled daughters who are simply amazing. They are smart, polite, have many friends and do all the normal kid things. The oldest, 13, takes a college level Latin class.

DUDE!

I don't have any kids so this will come as BS and not worth much.

I was pretty much against home schooling from the standpoint of "only people in cults chose that road". The next opinion was the way of the over protective parent-I don't want my kids to get involved with XXXXXX- fill in your phobia here.

Not any more.

My parents spent GOOD money to send us kids thru the 'boot camp of Catholic School'. Only my sister got thru the k-11 experience, LOL she turned out the be the most defective.

The rest of us stayed in until they found it was way too expensive and the "your Third, fourth fifth six, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth kids learn free!" coupons/offers were no good anymore.

My parents were not THAT prolific, but paying for two kids and getting the other two educated for free was a good deal.

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I went into Jr. High about two grades above what my peers were at. Because I came from an enviroment where you were taught to 'be smart' and compete for your grades, I was picked on because I made the people in my classes look stupid.

It wasn't that they were stupid. They just didn't come from the place that demanded they learn and take pride in it. I skated thru high school and the college courses that I took for my job.

Why? Sister Mary Torquemada's way of beating info into me.
Sister Mary H. Himmler's way of running the cam-ah, school.

I am being facetious here. Looking back on the experience? I didn't really enjoy all the BS around learning, but am thankful that I did attend that school.

I am a huge proponent of schools and probably could afford to pay another dollar or two-literally-for the local school system.

If everyone tossed a dollar into the hat, how much money would come from the community as large as the City of El Lay?

Even to save the 'small' classes like Music, Art and Science- I am a huge science geek and nothing would make me happier than seeing a few bucks get kicked down for THAT part of schooling....

Anyway,
With all the budget cuts and the teacher's getting beat down for trying to get kids to learn?

Keep the kids at home, where the parents can control what the kiddies learn!

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Here's a little side light to the topic.


TEACH KIDS CIVICS. I have nieces and nephews that are very bright and when we get into conversations about current events I cringe when they ask me an honest question about stuff I learned when I was a kid.

I could probably whip the arse of any fifth grader on paper, in a quiz or spelling bee?

But, seeing the 'adults' that should have two to three times the wisdom and smarts of the next generation, fail miserably when it comes to providing a good base for learning, competition and instilling a good work ethic for their children?

I am glad I have no children.

I am an 'intelligence whore' and probably would have had the kid who graduated college at the age of 11. Then died when the kid flipped out and stabbed me in my sleep, all because he would have been forced to learn 26 out of the 24 hours in a day.

[Catty1]

OK...I am nowhere near as well-informed as everyone here, especially since I don't live in the You-Ess-Eh (my dad's mom was born in 'Warshington' state, though)...but is one address by the President and several days work on his speech really going to brainwash kids for life?

I would hope that some kids, especially if their parents didn't vote for Obama, would create some interesting "discussions" in the classroom.

Even if misguided, it seems to me part of this is to encourage young people to be a part of the solution - national citizen teamwork was something Obama mentioned in his Inaugural speech.

On the other hand - Canada has not had to face first-hand real fears and threats such as the Bay of Pigs, and refugees from Cuba. I can see that anything that smacks remotely of the government taking charge would cause great concern - because no one wants to live in Cuba or Russia!

Canadians have a similar thing going right now - and hope to boot the dictatorial Harper out at the next election (this fall?). Except - there are a lot of cattle that follow the promised decrease in our national sales tax and say that Harper is a good guy. Better look under the carpet of that tax decrease, my fellow Canucks...lot of crap there.

That's it for me.

[Miss Z]

OK...I am nowhere near as well-informed as everyone here, especially since I don't live in the You-Ess-Eh (my dad's mom was born in 'Warshington' state, though)...but is one address by the President and several days work on his speech really going to brainwash kids for life?

I would hope that some kids, especially if their parents didn't vote for Obama, would create some interesting "discussions" in the classroom.

Even if misguided, it seems to me part of this is to encourage young people to be a part of the solution - national citizen teamwork was something Obama mentioned in his Inaugural speech.

I agree with this. I find it slightly strange that something that those kids may actually have enjoyed, or been inspired by, is being taken as something so evil.

I am currently in private education and my parents too pay for the state schools as part of their taxes. We don't particularly like that our money is being spent on someone else's kid when we are forking out fortunes for my education, but we don't begrudge the teaching they are receiving. Even as an independent school, it is mandate that we adhere somewhat to the National Curriculum for the National Qualifications. Gosh, I feel that with our nationalised health system and examinations, we must be such a funny little Marxist country.

I spent a couple of years studying the Red Scare and from some of your posts, blue, it appears as if you're still living in it.

[RICHARD]

I spent a couple of years studying the Red Scare and from some of your posts, blue, it appears as if you're still living in it.

What part of the red scare are you talking about?

Also, could you explain the nat'l quals?

I paid for my education and alas, my poor parents and I paid for my nieces and nephews public schooling, So I am behind the cue ball on this topic.

[Miss Z]

What part of the red scare are you talking about?

The McCarthyism era, mainly. Trying to see 'evil' where there is none. The whole attitude of suspecting every new concept as disturbing and something to be avoided. The idea that those who step out of the ordinary way of things should be ratted on, and that they should withdraw their presence, or have their presence withdrawn, from everyone around them.

Maybe my comparison is extreme. It's just what I was reminded of.

[blue]

blue, it appears as if you're still living in it.

I want to make sure we dont revisit those days.

I dont know enough about the UK to call it Marxist, it can be funnay though.

[Edwina's Secretary]

On the other hand - Canada has not had to face first-hand real fears and threats such as the Bay of Pigs, and refugees from Cuba. I can see that anything that smacks remotely of the government taking charge would cause great concern - because no one wants to live in Cuba or Russia!

Catty - sweet of you to care but ...Bay of Pigs was an attempt by the US to send people to Cuba to kill Castro. Refugees from Cuba - most of whom came over in the late 50's were not a threat - well except to the English language in Miami. There was another influx later when Castro let folks leave Cuba - many criminals he wanted rid of. Still not an invasion and still not a threat.

The Cuban missile crisis that occurred after the failed invasion of Cuba involved the Soviet Union - not Russia. And it was about the Soviet Union putting nuclear weapons in Cuba.

I was a very young child when these things happened (although I do remember the drills) and I really, really doubt the fear of Cuba ever existed (it is a poor poor small country) or that the memories of huddling under our school desks because of the missile crisis is what is driving any behavior today. A takeover of the US government was never a part of the equation.

[pomtzu]

I was a very young child when these things happened (although I do remember the drills) and I really, really doubt the fear of Cuba ever existed (it is a poor poor small country) or that the memories of huddling under our school desks because of the missile crisis is what is driving any behavior today. A takeover of the US government was never a part of the equation.

Unfortunately, I remember this all too well. My ex was a Marine stationed at Pendleton and we were newlyweds. I arrived at Pendleton on a Friday morning, and since base housing would not be available for a couple of weeks, we were staying at the Hostess House on base. On Saturday, hubby's brother drove up from San Diego (he was stationed there in the Navy) and drove us down there to stay with him and his family for the weekend (we had no car). When we got back on Sunday night, there was a note on our room door for hubby to report to his c.o. - he was being shipped out to Cuba on Monday morning. Fortunately hubby always had a way with words, and when he explained the situation that he and I were in, he got out of going. I was frantic - imagining I was going to be a widow before I had a chance to be a wife. When we did get housing - it was very strange indeed. It was like a community devoid of men - you basically saw just women and children (and an occasional man) - since the rest had shipped out.
So were we afraid of Cuba?? - I doubt it. But were we afraid of Cuba's leader and what he was capable of?? - you bet. We could have faced annihilation at his hands, so there wouldn't have been any government left to take over.

[Grace]

I was in NYC, a newly graduated RN, when the Cuban Missile crisis happened. My soon-to-be husband was stationed on a Destroyer in Norfolk, Virginia - all leaves were canceled.

I admit, I was more than a wee bit nervous. I figured NYC would be a grand target for one of their missiles. Each night I went to bed, wondering if the city would be there when/if I woke up in the morning.