Is the President attempting to indoctrinate children?

[blue]

And your original topic was accusing the President of Indoctrinating children ... and again, I asked where you would draw the line between teaching and indoctrination.

And don't you go quoting some dictionary definition at me - anyone can find a definition on the Internet - that's not what I am interesting in. For example, I didn't ask you for a textbook definition of Socialism, but your definition.

Yes, there are always children who end up illiterate, but look at the percentages of literacy in countries with public education systems, versus those without one.

Where did I accuse the president of anything? I asked a question.

Sorry to pull a lefty tactic but you left it open.

My definition of socialism?

Instead of teaching a man to fish, you take, by force, fish from the fisherman and give it to those who dont know how to fish.

Socialism is a forced, false, system of equality.

ETA: How in the heck did socialism become part of this discussion? It wasnt even part of my OP!
Further ETA: I brought socialism into this dang it.

[Grace]

ETA: How in the heck did socialism become part of this discussion? It wasnt even part of my OP!
Further ETA: I brought socialism into this dang it.

[blue]

My thread lady, not yours. It doesnt change the fact that the public school system is a socialist system.

[Grace]

My thread lady, not yours.

Quoted before you edited -

natürlich, mein herr

[blue]

natürlich, mein herr

"Of course, my wonderful"???

[Grace]

"Of course, my wonderful"???

Try mine sir. Meaning you are male, as opposed to female.

[blue]

Meh, derail as you seem fit. Go nuts.

[Karen]

Where did I accuse the president of anything? I asked a question.

"Is the President attempting to indoctrinate children?"

is your title of this thread, so while technically you are asking a question, you are implying an accusation.

Sorry to pull a lefty tactic but you left it open.

My definition of socialism?

Instead of teaching a man to fish, you take, by force, fish from the fisherman and give it to those who dont know how to fish.

Socialism is a forced, false, system of equality.

And so how are public schools socialism? Ain't no American school that turns out all "equal" students, but they do attempt at least to provide students with a a basic education, to do with what they will.

And your definition of socialism sounds more like communism to me.

[blue]

"Is the President attempting to indoctrinate children?"

is your title of this thread, so while technically you are asking a question, you are implying an accusation.

Asking questions is now accusatory? I did not attach my own bias to the question, nor did I imply my bias to the question.

And so how are public schools socialism? Ain't no American school that turns out all "equal" students, but they do attempt at least to provide students with a a basic education, to do with what they will.

Not socialism, its a socialist system. Take from everybody to benifit a few.

And your definition of socialism sounds more like communism to me.

The end result is the same, so why split hairs?

[Karen]

Asking questions is now accusatory? I did not attach my own bias to the question, nor did I imply my bias to the question.

Not asking a question, the word choice holds its own bias.

Do not these three questions sound different?

"Is the President trying to indoctrinate children?"
"Is the President trying to teach children?"
"Is the President trying to speak to children?"

Not socialism, its a socialist system. Take from everybody to benifit a few.

How does public education "benefit a few?"

The end result is the same, so why split hairs?

Wars have been fought over socialism versus communism. I hardly call that splitting hairs.

[blue]

Not asking a question, the word choice holds its own bias.

Do not these three questions sound different?

"Is the President trying to indoctrinate children?"
"Is the President trying to teach children?"
"Is the President trying to speak to children?"

The title of the linked poll is "Is President Barack Obama attempting to indoctrinate children with his upcoming back-to-school speech?". Ild say the title of this thread is much less biased.

How does public education "benefit a few?"

More taxpayers then students.

Wars have been fought over socialism versus communism. I hardly call that splitting hairs.

Wars have been fought over liberty versus tyranny, socialism and communism have more in common then not. I would call it splitting hairs.

[Lady's Human]

For someone who is normally strict a constructionist, your stance on public education is puzzling.

It is mandated, first and foremost ,in the constitutions of the many states. This is the ultimate expression of states' rights, as Washington D.C. has helped enforce educational requirements in the state constitutions. Just as certain federal agencies are mandated through the US Constitution and taxes/revenue collection methods are mandated to maintain them, education requirements and taxes to fund them are mandated in state constitutions.

[blue]

For someone who is normally strict a constructionist, your stance on public education is puzzling.

It is mandated, first and foremost ,in the constitutions of the many states. This is the ultimate expression of states' rights, as Washington D.C. has helped enforce educational requirements in the state constitutions. Just as certain federal agencies are mandated through the US Constitution and taxes/revenue collection methods are mandated to maintain them, education requirements and taxes to fund them are mandated in state constitutions.

Not first and formost, from article 7.

§ 1. Public Education

The legislature shall by general law establish and maintain a system of public schools open to all children of the State, and may provide for other public educational institutions. Schools and institutions so established shall be free from sectarian control. No money shall be paid from public funds for the direct benefit of any religious or other private educational institution.

What about parents who dont want to take the public option for their childrens schooling? They still pay taxes, and then they have to pay extra to have their children schooled outside of the public system. In effect they are being punished for educating their children outside of the states controll.

[Puckstop31]

For someone who is normally strict a constructionist, your stance on public education is puzzling.

It is mandated, first and foremost ,in the constitutions of the many states. This is the ultimate expression of states' rights, as Washington D.C. has helped enforce educational requirements in the state constitutions. Just as certain federal agencies are mandated through the US Constitution and taxes/revenue collection methods are mandated to maintain them, education requirements and taxes to fund them are mandated in state constitutions.

Thanks LH. I was hoping smoebody would jump in with this.

Personally. I have no problem paying taxes at a LOCAL level to fund a public school system. Further allowing that LOCAL authority the ability to define the curriculum. This would in effect give parents some level of choice.

I take a large issue with fedzilla getting invovled. They place unfunded mandates on the states. They also hold states hostage by not providing other "funding" if they do not teach as fedzilla says they should. Fedzilla makes education a very political thing. What politician runs for office wihtout talking about "money for education", as if MORE money will fix all the "problems"?

All in all, just my $.02. Our children will be homeschooled until at least age 12, at which time will be given a choice, if we think they are ready to really think for themselves. I'd be willing to guranteee that should they choose to go to public schools at that time, it will either be short lived or they will be way ahead of the others. Thats not me simply thumping my chest as a proud parent... Home schooling offers the ability to adjust curriculum to the childs learning style. Personalized education if you will. It takes a dedicated parent who has the time to do all the work involved. We as a family are fortunate to be able to provide that to Hannah and "the next one". Also, I am inspired by my best buddies kids. He has 4 home schooled daughters who are simply amazing. They are smart, polite, have many friends and do all the normal kid things. The oldest, 13, takes a college level Latin class.


Blue - I think it really does behoove you to pay those dang taxes, on the local level, to provide public schools. In today's world, it is just not realistic that all parents can provide for their own kids education. But it is very important for us as a country to have a educated population. Please take into account everything else I have said in this post though. Keep fedzilla OUT of it. It would be nice if we could ditch the public school unions too. I might send Hannah to a public school then.