Firearms. Yea or Nay?

[Lady's Human]

Again, regardless of why they were created, they are still inanimate objects. They have no good or evil in them, their use is dependent on the will of the operator.

If you hate them because they were invented to kill, I hope you have no knives in your kitchen or hammers and axes in your toolbox.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Once again LH you overlook the obvious. Knives have many other uses. So do hammers and axes.

Guns are to kill. I do not think it is prudent to drive a nail with a handgun. Or peel fruit. Or cut down a tree.

[Puckstop31]

OK... Guns were invented to kill. What is your point?

Are we that weak a society that law abiding citizens cannot be entrusted with the capability to protect themselves?

[Lady's Human]

Sara, your latest (in this thread) objection to firearms is that they were created solely to kill.

So were knives.......other uses were found later.

Ditto for hammers, axes, etc.

Firearms have other uses as well (mainly recreational), you just choose to ignore them. They are also used as tools (nail guns, quite literally, and screw drivers which both use powder cartridges to drive the fastener home).

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sara, your latest (in this thread) objection to firearms is that they were created solely to kill.

So were knives.......other uses were found later.

Ditto for hammers, axes, etc.

Firearms have other uses as well (mainly recreational), you just choose to ignore them. They are also used as tools (nail guns, quite literally, and screw drivers which both use powder cartridges to drive the fastener home).

Really? Hammers were invented for the purpose of killing. Not...not for say...hammering? And knives. Not for cutting but for killing... Really?

Could you tell me where you get that idea?

I have a power screw driver and we have a nail gun around here as well.

But... neither one uses bullets.

Gun may be used for so-called recreation...but that is NOT the reason they were invented.

[Desert Arabian]

I love when naive people feel the need to spout their mouths on topics they are so ill-informed on. You really need to wake up Edwina’s Secretary and get your facts on guns straight- you’re making a clown of yourself.

Thanks for stating the obvious that firearms were designed to kill. Before the manufacturing of firearms people had to hunt with other means – tomahawks, bow/arrow, dart gun, knives – tools that are not as effective as a firearm. More than often the target is missed, clean kills are not made, and a very close range is needed to be effective. Using a firearm to hunt means that you can shoot animals at a much further distance, you can make more humane kills, have a chance of harvesting more than one animal at a time (as long as your aim is good ), and lessens the chance that one would be hurt in the attempt to kill an animal. Would you (“you” being anyone- no one in particular) rather gallop along side a buffalo on horseback, then jump on to the back of the buffalo- slit its throat, then stab it in the heart after its fallen to finish it off – or shoot it with one shot from a firearm? Which method seems more efficient and effective? It was FIREARMS aka GUNS that helped America gain the freedom that we have today – they helped us win many battles- without them America would not be what it is today. Were many human lives lost because of it? Yes. So be it- that’s life.


And yes, knives were desgined to help butcher and kill- ANIMALS. Their sole intention was no to help one dice tomatoes and cut open your envelope to get your mail out, nor were they invented to kill people. Machete’s and meat cleavers make a great tool to use for beheading and hacking off body parts. Small knives like daggars help stab and slit throats. Skinning knives helped separate and remove skin and flesh from carcasses- hence the name. Gut hook knives help rip open a body cavity so one can field dress (remove internal organs) an animal. And the spear- well that’s just another amazing tool in its self – it’s like a throwable knife- without the bulkyness and clumsyness of a tomahawk or hatchet!!

ES, you keep preaching that guns are so bad and kids are in danger because of them. Well, let me tell you this twisted, little personal story. I moved out on my own two years ago- it was just me and my 2 rabbits- I lived in a very crime rampant part of Milwaukee. So, I had one of my shotguns locked and loaded in my bedroom for self protection. One day I came home to find my apartment broken in to- the screen slit open. I immediately ran in to my bedroom to find that my shotgun was gone. Want to know who stole my shotgun (and $1300 laptop)? A THIRTEEN YEAR OLD (13) CHILD. His mother called him in to the cops when she found out he commited the crime. Did I get my gun back? Nope! He refused to say who he gave it to- I have yet to recieve a call from the MPD saying that my gun has been found. Not all children are little angels.

[Edwina's Secretary]

ES, you keep preaching that guns are so bad and kids are in danger because of them. Well, let me tell you this twisted, little personal story. I moved out on my own two years ago- it was just me and my 2 rabbits- I lived in a very crime rampant part of Milwaukee. So, I had one of my shotguns locked and loaded in my bedroom for self protection. One day I came home to find my apartment broken in to- the screen slit open. I immediately ran in to my bedroom to find that my shotgun was gone. Want to know who stole my shotgun (and $1300 laptop)? A THIRTEEN YEAR OLD (13) CHILD. His mother called him in to the cops when she found out he commited the crime. Did I get my gun back? Nope! He refused to say who he gave it to- I have yet to recieve a call from the MPD saying that my gun has been found. Not all children are little angels.

What a perfect story to illustrate my point! Your gun was not used to protect you. It was stolen and given or sold to someone who will probably use it to commit a crime.

Well done!

So you are advocating shooting 13 year old boys?

Isn't keeping a loaded gun around one of those gun safety no-nos? Or am I just being naive again?

[caseysmom]

Whats with all the name calling lately??? ES is naive and a clown because she has a different opinion than you?

Like I said before I don't feel very strong either way on this issue but your story did not prove any point in favor of guns in my opinion.

[Desert Arabian]

What a perfect story to illustrate my point! Your gun was not used to protect you. It was stolen and given or sold to someone who will probably use it to commit a crime.

Well done!

So you are advocating shooting 13 year old boys?

Isn't keeping a loaded gun around one of those gun safety no-nos? Or am I just being naive again?

Don't you dare shove words in my mouth!!!!!!! Why would I want to shoot a 13 year old kid? Hmm, well maybe if he shot at me first in attempt to kill me?! That's a whole 'nother arguement, and your not the one I feel like wasting my time on with that.

Yes, you are correct- my firearm was most likely given to someone and is being used to commit a crime. My firearm is in the hands of some sick, twisted, mentally disturbed indivdual who is using it in senseless crimes. BLAME THE PERSON NOT THE GUN! When the gun was in my hands- it was safe. My safety was violated when that little kid slit the screen and entered my home without permission. Thank god I was not home- what would he have done if he stumbled upon me inside? Was he armed? Would he have attempted to hurt me - or just flee and run? Who knows.

Keeping a loaded gun in a home with children, within reach of children is a very large safety issue! Do I have children? Did children ever enter my residence? NO. Had a child entered my home, the firearm would have been unloaded, place in a gun case, and well hidden out of view. Keeping an undloaded firearm for protection serves no purpose. I would be shot (and killed ?) before I even had a chance to retireve the ammuntion, attempt to load it in to my gun, and pull the trigger in defense.

[Desert Arabian]

Whats with all the name calling lately??? ES is naive and a clown because she has a different opinion than you?

Like I said before I don't feel very strong either way on this issue but your story did not prove any point in favor of guns in my opinion.

It has nothing to do with the fact that she has an opposite view of mine - it's the fact that she is not well educated on firearms, does not have a slightest clue about the topic, yet tries to preach as if she does. Get facts straight before making statements- otherwise you look like a fool.

[caseysmom]

Seems she has done her fair share of research, yes it may be from the american academy of pediatrics and not from the NRA so she does sound foolish

[Puckstop31]

Seems she has done her fair share of research, yes it may be from the american academy of pediatrics and not from the NRA so she does sound foolish

All that "research" does is tug at heart strings of emotional people. It does not make a case as to why a fundamental, God given, 2nd Amendment confirmed right should be removed from supposedly FREE, law abiding US citizens.

A thief steals a gun. So we ban the gun? PUH-LEASE. That has to be the most absurd "logic" ever.

God, I cannot wait to get the hell out of the city. Out in an area where EVERYBODY is armed and crime is nearly non-existent. Good ole' leave the doors unlocked**, everybody is welcome, "fly over country".

**City folk need not apply. Please stay contained in your cages.

/rant

Yes, this is the Puckstop31 you all hate. I am having a one night relapse because I am sick of the uneducated, emotional nonsense.

[blue]

Since some have a limited sense of humor and to avoid confusion I editted my earlier post. "Fixing" the quote wasnt done out of spite or to cause any confusion, it was my attempt at a funnay which is why I used the red letterring.

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If a person uses an automobile as a weapon to cause harm or to kill another the innanimate object did not fail in its intended use by the operator.

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When a criminal kills someone with a gun yes ES is correct.

When a legal gun owner uses a gun to kill someone trying to rape a woman, ES is correct. When a legal gun owner uses a gun to protect themselves or their loved ones from an attacker, ES is again correct.

Im sure even ES can see the difference.

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Honest people who argue for the protection of the 2nd Amendment hope to never need to use their firearms against another human being, they do not go out looking for an excuse to brandish or use their weapon. Owning guns isnt allways about protection as both I and Puck have pointed out.

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Ive been to Chicago a few times now visiting my brother. I never felt the need to illegally carry there or felt threatened there, even while wanderring unfamiliar streets at 4am drunk alone.

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ES, I never felt the need to kill someone either, but I once thought I would have to to protect myself.

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Cannons are destructive devices and allways have been, not a fire arm by definition. They where invented as a defensive fixed weapon and later made into a mobile offensive weapon.

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Proficiency with firearms is an Olympic event. It seems the use of firearms is more then just killing people.

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I had a shotgun stolen as well, allmost the same circumstances as Desert Arabian. The APD has the serial number and to date it has not been recovered. The theif moved a far more valuable rifle and my 77 Jazz bass out of the way to take the shotgun, criminals are dumb.

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ES have you ever been to the Highland Games and watched the Hammer Toss?

Why is what it was invented for and what it is used for, a meaningfull arguement? Charles Manson once told the parole board "I can kill you with this book!"

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ES, how is quoting what Desert Arabian posted and completely twisting it to mean something that was a polar opposite to what was meant not poor form? I admit that I have done the exact same thing and I freely admit that it was poor form and confusing to the casual reader.

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Caseysmom, copy and pasting from the AAP would be the same as me copy and pasting from the NRA. It is bias and not fact. If ES based her opinions on the CDC or FBI raw numbers she would have a much stronger footing on her stance against firearms.

[caseysmom]

All that "research" does is tug at heart strings of emotional people. It does not make a case as to why a fundamental, God given, 2nd Amendment confirmed right should be removed from supposedly FREE, law abiding US citizens.

A thief steals a gun. So we ban the gun? PUH-LEASE. That has to be the most absurd "logic" ever.

God, I cannot wait to get the hell out of the city. Out in an area where EVERYBODY is armed and crime is nearly non-existent. Good ole' leave the doors unlocked**, everybody is welcome, "fly over country".

**City folk need not apply. Please stay contained in your cages.

/rant

Yes, this is the Puckstop31 you all hate. I am having a one night relapse because I am sick of the uneducated, emotional nonsense.

Awww this is the puck we have all grown to love if you get too obnoxious we just sic sparks on ya...

I just like to see a fair fight...and I agree with blue the twising of desert arabians words did not constitute a fair fight either...

now everone..take twenty steps and unholster your guns

[sparks19]

Well argue all you want... to me it doesn't matter. YOU will not be the ones protecting my family and my daughter IF the unthinkable should happen. Do I live my life in fear? No I do not. I enjoy my life. I try to wake each day with a smile on my face and in my heart and enjoy everyday I have. You don't like that we have guns in our house... tough. it doesn't make a lick of difference to me because again... YOu will NOT be the one coming to my rescue if a criminal were to have their way.

Do I sit here in my house daily and think "Gosh I need a gun to protect myself from the awful world" ... NOpe. but I also don't sit here and think daily "Gosh I need a fire extinguisher in case a completely random fire were to break out in my home" but I still have one. Yes yes... I know what is coming next from the nay sayers "a fire extinguisher isn't intended to kill people" and you're right... it's not. But it will help me fight against the unthinkable... and I will have it to protect my family. Just as I will not go down without one HELL of a fight if someone comes in with the intent to hurt me and my precious innocent daughter.

YOu don't have to like it and you can argue against it all you want... but I don't really care... it falls on deaf ears. My daughters care is in MY hands and my husbands hands and I will NOT rely on anyone else to protect her in such a situation. by the time the cops come... it will be too late... so in the meantime I will do whatever it takes.