A Firearm in Every Home.

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05-05-2009, 11:08 AM
Puckstop31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whisk_Luva

Still thinking about you telling me it was my own personal issues, today I decided to ask some people whether or not they would feel threatened if everyone had a gun.

16 out of 17 replied yes, they would feel threatened. That is about 94% by the way.

Didn't ask that many people, but I think that it prooves it is not just me.

Fair nuff... But also note that your society is much different than ours. That is not a good or bad thing, it just is.
05-05-2009, 01:34 PM
kokopup

Quote by Blue

Quote:

You need training and testing in order to drive, but you arent required or mandated to drive. Im not saying anybody should be madated to own a firearm, but TMK more people die from driving accidents per year then criminal activity involving firearms.

Actually in 2008 the number of deaths by Automobile and by Gun shot were almost even. Forget your term criminal activity. Accident and sucicide should be included. Statistics show as the economy goes down auto deaths go down. The reverse is true of gun related deaths. We can expect gun death to really spike this year.

I was raised on Guns. Every room of my fathers house was a gun room at one time. I owned and handled guns from an early age. I am a charter Member of at least 3 state gun associations. My father has 9 guns he made in The Smithsonian Museum of American History. I have a long long history with guns. I know both the good and the bad of gun ownership.

One truth I found is that the more people you have with guns the more deaths and accidents you will have. I know of at least 5 individual trained Gun collectors that have shot themselves with "unloaded guns". I know several hunters that have shot or have been shot by accident or fall out of a tree stand because they were holding onto a gun instead of hanging on. Adults can't be trained about the proper use of firearms, so how on earth are you going to teach children. People in general become very stupid when it comes to guns or automobiles. If you put a gun in every drivers hand it would solve some of the congestion on our highways. Road rage would take on a whole new meaning.

If you want to own a gun fine. If you want your Kids to be trained about guns fine. If you make Gun training univerally mandatory you are asking for a disaster. Gun deaths would definately go up.
05-06-2009, 12:10 AM
blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whisk_Luva

Still thinking about you telling me it was my own personal issues, today I decided to ask some people whether or not they would feel threatened if everyone had a gun.

16 out of 17 replied yes, they would feel threatened. That is about 94% by the way.

Of course I didn't ask that many people, but I think that it prooves it is not just me.

You're right, it is a cultural issue and I apologise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokopup

Actually in 2008 the number of deaths by Automobile and by Gun shot were almost even. Forget your term criminal activity. Accident and sucicide should be included. Statistics show as the economy goes down auto deaths go down. The reverse is true of gun related deaths. We can expect gun death to really spike this year.

I was raised on Guns. Every room of my fathers house was a gun room at one time. I owned and handled guns from an early age. I am a charter Member of at least 3 state gun associations. My father has 9 guns he made in The Smithsonian Museum of American History. I have a long long history with guns. I know both the good and the bad of gun ownership.

One truth I found is that the more people you have with guns the more deaths and accidents you will have. I know of at least 5 individual trained Gun collectors that have shot themselves with "unloaded guns". I know several hunters that have shot or have been shot by accident or fall out of a tree stand because they were holding onto a gun instead of hanging on. Adults can't be trained about the proper use of firearms, so how on earth are you going to teach children. People in general become very stupid when it comes to guns or automobiles. If you put a gun in every drivers hand it would solve some of the congestion on our highways. Road rage would take on a whole new meaning.

The stats for 2008 are published? Care to share the link? Ive been looking for them on the web and havent found them. Ill see if I can find statistics for remote villages where allmost every home has a firearm.

Quote:

If you want to own a gun fine. If you want your Kids to be trained about guns fine. If you make Gun training univerally mandatory you are asking for a disaster. Gun deaths would definately go up.

Im not talking more guns Im talking about safety training. Bring back the Eddie Eagle Program and it wouldnt cost the taxpayers anything. So why would firearm deaths go up with increased safety training?

Even if the safety training did bring 1 firearm to every household that wouldnt be a great increase in the USA, it would be a huge start as long as the arms are legally obtained.

Yes the thread title sucked, but it did get alot of hits and even flattered me with a spinoff thread.
_________________

10 people live and, I think, nobody got raped because someone used a firearm. So much for firearms being used only to take lives.

Quote:

College Student Shoots, Kills Home Invader

Posted: 4:53 pm EDT May 4, 2009
Updated: 6:41 pm EDT May 4, 2009
COLLEGE PARK, Ga. -- A group of college students said they are lucky to be alive and they’re thanking the quick-thinking of one of their own. Police said a fellow student shot and killed one of two masked me who burst into an apartment.

Channel 2 Action News reporter Tom Jones met with one of the students to talk about the incident.

“Apparently, his intent was to rape and murder us all,” said student Charles Bailey.

TOM JONES: College Student Shoots, Kills Home Invader

Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.

“They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.

Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

That’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.

The student then ran to the room where the second gunman, identified by police as 23-year-old Calvin Lavant, was holding the women.

“Apparently the guy was getting ready to rape his girlfriend. So he told the girls to get down and he started shooting. The guy jumped out of the window,” said Bailey.

A neighbor heard the shots and heard someone running nearby.

“And I heard someone say, ‘Someone help me. Call the police. Somebody call the police,’” said a neighbor.

The neighbor said she believes it was Lavant, who was found dead near his apartment, only one building away.

Bailey said he is just thankful one student risked his life to keep others alive.

“I think all of us are really cognizant of the fact that we could have all been killed,” said Bailey.

One female student was shot several times during the crossfire. She is expected to make a full recovery.

Police said they are close to making the arrest of the second suspect.

Source.
05-06-2009, 01:52 AM
Whisk_Luva

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue

You're right, it is a cultural issue and I apologise.

It has nothing to do with culture, and it is not an issue. It's common sense. Anyones opinion that is different from your own doesn't make it an 'issue' you know.

Hardly an apology, you are still insulting me, if anything it's worse, insulting a whole culture. Talk about categorizing.:rolleyes:
05-06-2009, 11:46 AM
kokopup

Quote:

Quote by Blue
The stats for 2008 are published? Care to share the link? Ive been looking for them on the web and havent found them. Ill see if I can find statistics for remote villages where allmost every home has a firearm.

http://www.nysun.com/national/surpri...uicides/80978/

This link points out that a 55 percent of gunshot deaths is suicide.

There are several links that point out that a good percentage of these
are teenagers. Unfortunately we are seeing a trend where those
suicidal people are taking others with them.
05-06-2009, 08:04 PM
blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whisk_Luva

It has nothing to do with culture, and it is not an issue. It's common sense. Anyones opinion that is different from your own doesn't make it an 'issue' you know.

Hardly an apology, you are still insulting me, if anything it's worse, insulting a whole culture. Talk about categorizing.:rolleyes:

Try to keep a stiff upper lip.

So the USA doesnt have common sense? Who is insulting who?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokopup

http://www.nysun.com/national/surpri...uicides/80978/

This link points out that a 55 percent of gunshot deaths is suicide.

There are several links that point out that a good percentage of these
are teenagers. Unfortunately we are seeing a trend where those
suicidal people are taking others with them.

Thanks for the link. I think the CDC has all of the 2005 numbers posted, this gives me a starting point.

I have a wierd obsesion with statistics.
05-07-2009, 01:48 AM
Whisk_Luva

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue

Try to keep a stiff upper lip.

So the USA doesnt have common sense? Who is insulting who?

Stiff upper lip? What's that got to do with anything? :confused: Unless you are just going by the stereotype of British people, which again is fairly insulting.

Did I say the USA had no common sense? No. I am only saying that it's normal for people, in the UK AND outside the UK to feel threatened, even the slightest bit, about guns and the possibility that killers could be carrying a gun legally or how accidents are likely to happen, especially with children knowing how to use them. I was in no way trying to offend the USA with my comment.

You stated directly that it was a cultural issue and that is not fair. It's categorizing and judging people.

Good point about the suicide thing kokopup, I didn't think of that.
05-07-2009, 07:59 PM
blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whisk_Luva

Stiff upper lip? What's that got to do with anything? :confused: Unless you are just going by the stereotype of British people, which again is fairly insulting.

Sorry there was no Monty Python smiley.

Quote:

Did I say the USA had no common sense? No. I am only saying that it's normal for people, in the UK AND outside the UK to feel threatened, even the slightest bit, about guns and the possibility that killers could be carrying a gun legally or how accidents are likely to happen, especially with children knowing how to use them. I was in no way trying to offend the USA with my comment.

You stated directly that it was a cultural issue and that is not fair. It's categorizing and judging people.

The Swiss dont seem to have a big firearm problem, and they keep full auto firearms in their homes, so what would you call it if it isnt a cultural issue?

If you think the UK and other countries with severe restrictions on firearms are following common sense, the obvious ass/ump/tion is you think the USA doesnt have common sense.
05-08-2009, 01:19 AM
Whisk_Luva

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue

Sorry there was no Monty Python smiley.

The Swiss dont seem to have a big firearm problem, and they keep full auto firearms in their homes, so what would you call it if it isnt a cultural issue?

If you think the UK and other countries with severe restrictions on firearms are following common sense, the obvious ass/ump/tion is you think the USA doesnt have common sense.

A difference of culture. The word issue is not needed, it's implying something is wrong with that country, and the people in that country, and thats not fair.

I didn't say countries with servere restrictions followed common sense, I said feeling threatened is, it's a normal reaction. Thats all I meant by that comment.
05-08-2009, 11:16 PM
blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whisk_Luva

A difference of culture. The word issue is not needed, it's implying something is wrong with that country, and the people in that country, and thats not fair.

I didn't say countries with servere restrictions followed common sense, I said feeling threatened is, it's a normal reaction. Thats all I meant by that comment.

Semantics, another a cultural issue.

We could even break it down state by state in the USA. People in CA, and NY are going to have more issues with legal gun owners the people who live in AK or MT.
05-12-2009, 01:45 PM
Whisk_Luva

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue

Semantics, another a cultural issue.

We could even break it down state by state in the USA. People in CA, and NY are going to have more issues with legal gun owners the people who live in AK or MT.

Reading between the lines is not an issue, and again it's not something you can place to the whole culture. I write and read a lot, sometimes you have to read between the lines of things. Whats so wrong with trying to get the whole meaning behind something anyway?

Like I said, I have no idea about these states in America and the gun crime and so on, so saying something about them means nothing to me.
05-12-2009, 11:19 PM
blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whisk_Luva

Reading between the lines is not an issue, and again it's not something you can place to the whole culture. I write and read a lot, sometimes you have to read between the lines of things. Whats so wrong with trying to get the whole meaning behind something anyway?

Like I said, I have no idea about these states in America and the gun crime and so on, so saying something about them means nothing to me.

I try not to leave anything between the lines on the issue of firearms.

So lets put it this way. A majority of Californians and New Yorkers, have the same issues people from the UK have relating to firearms. I could have used the word paranoia instead of issue. I think we can both agree issue is the better choice. If you want to write between and read between the lines thats your choice.

At least the UK isnt trying to make paintball and airsoft illegal like the Germans.
05-12-2009, 11:28 PM
Edwina's Secretary

Do you think they had firearms training?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...71KRgD982B3LG0
05-12-2009, 11:34 PM
blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Do you think they had firearms training?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...71KRgD982B3LG0

No.

Im actualy suprised you didnt bring up the cops who shot a 15 year old for pointing a toy gun at them.
05-13-2009, 08:17 PM
Puckstop31

http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/w...ow/gunsign.jpg

:love:
05-13-2009, 11:37 PM
blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whisk_Luva

you have to read between the lines of things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whisk_Luva

And if you are saying that I am searching for the meaning behind your words and so on, then surely you are leaving things between the lines...

Not on this subject this serious.
05-14-2009, 04:25 PM
Whisk_Luva

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue

Not on this subject this serious.

Note the word sometimes in my post.... 'sometimes you have to read between the lines of things'

Did I say specifically this thread? No. I meant in general.

I am guessing you are ignoring my direct questions in my previous post.
05-14-2009, 10:38 PM
blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whisk_Luva

Note the word sometimes in my post.... 'sometimes you have to read between the lines of things'

Did I say specifically this thread? No. I meant in general.

I am guessing you are ignoring my direct questions in my previous post.

Reading between the lines leads to problems and writing between the lines leads to more problems but includes plausable deniability.

The emo question? Take another look at the definition for Paranoid Schizophrenia and look into the emo lifestyle, they're pretty similar.

You asked alot of rhetorical questions in your posts, so if you put all my unanswerred questions in one post I will address them.

But this one...

Quote:

So theft justifies murder in your opinion?

When it means watching your family starve because someone with a machete took all of your supplies, yes I do.

I feel the term issue is very fitting, I did not mean it as an insult in anyway.
05-16-2009, 11:30 PM
blue

Whisk_Luva, I would like to thank you for taking this as a serius discussion, something that cant be said for most of the anti's that participated in this thread.
05-19-2009, 02:56 PM
Whisk_Luva

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue

Reading between the lines leads to problems and writing between the lines leads to more problems but includes plausable deniability.

The emo question? Take another look at the definition for Paranoid Schizophrenia and look into the emo lifestyle, they're pretty similar.

You asked alot of rhetorical questions in your posts, so if you put all my unanswerred questions in one post I will address them.

When it means watching your family starve because someone with a machete took all of your supplies, yes I do.

I feel the term issue is very fitting, I did not mean it as an insult in anyway.

Well I look for the hidden meanings in things and I don't see the issue with it. Obvously, I don't intend to write leaving things hidden unless it is a poem or something, so obvously in this kind of topic I wouldn't. In this thread I am just trying to get the full meanings behind what is said.

Ok, I am kind of lost with the whole emo thing, but oh well.

If you watch someone starve because of a use of a weapon, I do not think they would want to use one themselves.

Anyway, the direct question I meant were:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

You could of just used the word differences. That is not as insulting. The word 'issue' is implying paranioia anyway. So, are you implying that all all cultures where people are threatened by guns are inferior?
Also if you are saying everyone should carry a gun for defense and so on, doesn't that mean if every carried a nuclear weapon everyone else should? Can you imagine the problems that would cause? Where do you draw the line? Because going by one of your main arguements, that situation would be ok.
05-19-2009, 09:01 PM
Puckstop31

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizbud

I think Blue just doesn't do nuance. ;)

You? Think? LOL

I'm still waiting for for your defence of your mans economic policies. You belive in him. Tell me why Keynesian economics will work... You talk down to me about "facts". I am more than ready for this debate. I look forward to any responce you might have.
05-19-2009, 10:14 PM
Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puckstop31

You? Think? LOL

I'm still waiting for for your defence of your mans economic policies. You belive in him. Tell me why Keynesian economics will work... You talk down to me about "facts". I am more than ready for this debate. I look forward to any responce you might have.

Why do you keep 'calling out' posters ? You've done it to me, as well as lizbud. I'm sure she doesn't like it any better than I did.

The original topic of this post is firearms. Start a new topic about economics if that is what you are interested in.
05-20-2009, 06:16 AM
Puckstop31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace

Why do you keep 'calling out' posters ? You've done it to me, as well as lizbud. I'm sure she doesn't like it any better than I did.

The original topic of this post is firearms. Start a new topic about economics if that is what you are interested in.

Just trying to confirm what I suspect. And if I DID start another thread, would you try to provide an answer?
05-20-2009, 07:38 AM
Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puckstop31

Just trying to confirm what I suspect. And if I DID start another thread, would you try to provide an answer?

Only if it interested me, and only if I felt comfortable with my knowledge of the topic. I did respond to your topic on the Constitution - remember?

In the meantime, why don't you stop playing these silly games.
05-20-2009, 04:30 PM
lizbud

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace

Why do you keep 'calling out' posters ? You've done it to me, as well as lizbud. I'm sure she doesn't like it any better than I did.

The original topic of this post is firearms. Start a new topic about economics if that is what you are interested in.

Thank you Grace for saying what needed to be said.:)
05-22-2009, 10:25 PM
blue

Where in this thread did I avoid this question?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whisk_Luva

So, are you implying that all all cultures where people are threatened by guns are inferior?
Also if you are saying everyone should carry a gun for defense and so on, doesn't that mean if every carried a nuclear weapon everyone else should? Can you imagine the problems that would cause? Where do you draw the line?

If that was a question you wanted to ask directly you should not have quoted yourself but asked it outright.

Quit reading between the lines, and stop looking to be offended. Im sorry I actually thought you where taking this conversation seriously.
05-22-2009, 10:36 PM
blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizbud

I think Blue just doesn't do nuance. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puckstop31

You? Think? LOL

Quoted for the Truth. I try not to read between the lines or nuance carp, it's absolute BS and is the same as spitting in someones face

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puckstop

I'm still waiting for for your defence of your mans economic policies. You belive in him. Tell me why Keynesian economics will work... You talk down to me about "facts". I am more than ready for this debate. I look forward to any responce you might have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace

Why do you keep 'calling out' posters ? You've done it to me, as well as lizbud. I'm sure she doesn't like it any better than I did.

The original topic of this post is firearms. Start a new topic about economics if that is what you are interested in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puckstop31

Just trying to confirm what I suspect. And if I DID start another thread, would you try to provide an answer?

No she/he wouldnt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace

Only if it interested me, and only if I felt comfortable with my knowledge of the topic. I did respond to your topic on the Constitution - remember?

In the meantime, why don't you stop playing these silly games.

Way to dodge.

http://yfonline.files.wordpress.com/.../dodgeball.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizbud

Thank you Grace for saying what needed to be said.:)

Qrace and Liz...

Dont try and act like moderators in my threads. If I have a problem with Puck, ya'll, Jebus, or anybody else highjacking my thread/s I will PM him/them to delete his/their posts.
05-23-2009, 04:36 AM
Whisk_Luva

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue

Where in this thread did I avoid this question?

If that was a question you wanted to ask directly you should not have quoted yourself but asked it outright.

Quit reading between the lines, and stop looking to be offended. Im sorry I actually thought you where taking this conversation seriously

I am telling you I posted it. I have no idea what happened to my post but I am going to ask Karen for help because this thread keeps being really strange with me.

Do you remember when you quoted me for saying:

Quote:

And if you are saying that I am searching for the meaning behind your words and so on, then surely you are leaving things between the lines...

It was in that post. I don't know what happened to that post but now it's gone.

So I did ask it directly. I was quoting it because it was in a previous post.

I am not looking to be offended.

Anyway, I am sorry for my post disappearing and you getting the wrong end of the stick, but that is not my fault, and yes, I am taking the topic seriously.

I even have the thread that disappeared saved to my PC (I always save my posts on a document first because my network has issues and if the network goes off when I click post, I sometimes lose my posts).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disappeared post

Just because I pick out the meaning behind what you say doesn't make it a cultural issue. And if you are saying that I am searching for the meaning behind your words and so on, then surely you are leaving things between the lines...

You could of just used the word differences. That is not as insulting. The word 'issue' is implying paranioia anyway. So, are you implying that all all cultures where people are threatened by guns are inferior? Also if you are saying everyone should carry a gun for defense and so on, doesn't that mean if every carried a nuclear weapon everyone else should? Can you imagine the problems that would cause? Where do you draw the line? Because going by one of your main arguements, that situation would be ok.

So, would you like to answer my questions now?
05-23-2009, 10:48 PM
blue

Face it, you have issues with people legally arming themselves to protect their rights. I have issues with people illegally arming themselves to take rights from others.

I have an issue with people being dissarmed so they cant defend their rights.

I live in, for the most part and for the immediate future, a free and open society and I like it that way and Ild like to keep it that way.

You should thank whatever belief system you have that you werent born in Switzerland or Israel, but if you where you wouldnt have the issues you currently have.
05-23-2009, 11:59 PM
Edwina's Secretary

yawn!!!
05-24-2009, 10:48 PM
blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

yawn!!!

So when you arent being rude or insulting you are dismissive.

Since you are incapable of being part of a discussion why dont you take your pom poms and preach to the choir in another thread instead of trolling here.
05-25-2009, 11:09 AM
Edwina's Secretary

yawn!!!!
05-25-2009, 04:40 PM
lizbud

Quote:

Originally Posted by edwina's secretary

yawn!!!!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz;);)
05-25-2009, 05:00 PM
pomtzu

Where's Karen when a lock would be a fitting application?? :p
05-25-2009, 05:34 PM
Karen

Quote:

Originally Posted by pomtzu

Where's Karen when a lock would be a fitting application?? :p

I am here, what do you mean? The thread has pretty much died down, all the arguments made, no need to lock it ...
05-25-2009, 09:29 PM
blue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

yawn!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizbud

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz;);)

Thanks for proving my point in a very petty and immature way, good trolling tactic. Dont forget to take your pom poms with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizbud

Seriously, I read a article today about an amendment that was inserted into
the recent Credit Card Bill that Obama signed a few days ago. It allows guns
in all National Parks. A really dumb idea.:mad:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5025472.shtml

Why is it a dumb idea, and why are you mad about it?

It makes perfect sense to me, other then the fact it was piggy backed on the credit card bill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizbud

Thanks Karen.:) Except for a few lapses, the subject is still guns.:confused:

Why the confusion?

Seriously, if any of you have nothing of substance to add to this thread why bother posting in it? Are you just boosting your post count? Are you simply trying to be belittling and insulting? If you dont agree with the premise of the thread back it up with an actual argument or be an adult and not post.

Why is basic firearm safety so threatening to the anti's who have posted in this thread? Why is the idea of arming potential victims a bad idea?

I have to question Randi's sig

Quote:

There are over five hundred and fifty million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's five hundred and fortynine million too many! The only question is, how do we get rid of them all?

Who gets to keep the remaining 1 million firearms? How do we get rid of them all if there are 1 million left? If all firearms are gone what is the next banned weapon?

Didnt the UK try and ban long kitchen knives a few years ago? ETA: Should there be a continent wide ban of machetes in Africa?
05-26-2009, 06:56 AM
pomtzu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karen

I am here, what do you mean? The thread has pretty much died down, all the arguments made, no need to lock it ...

See my explanation in a PM. Share it if you wish.
05-26-2009, 07:18 AM
pomtzu

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue

Why the confusion?

Seriously, if any of you have nothing of substance to add to this thread why bother posting in it? Are you just boosting your post count? Are you simply trying to be belittling and insulting? If you dont agree with the premise of the thread back it up with an actual argument or be an adult and not post.

I'm glad that someone got my point! ;)
05-26-2009, 10:21 AM
kokopup

I have not seen any constructive debate in quite a while. The posturing
going on now will not change the opinion of either side. Maybe it is time
to let it die a natural death.;)
05-26-2009, 10:43 AM
pomtzu

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokopup

I have not seen any constructive debate in quite a while. The posturing
going on now will not change the opinion of either side. Maybe it is time
to let it die a natural death.;)

Yay - a comrade in my corner.....;)

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