A Firearm in Every Home.

[moosmom]

It is my constitutional right as a U.S. citizen, to bear arms in my own home. I choose not to. Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people.

With all the violence that's in the news and on tv, not to mention the economy, I'm not surprized at all the violence in the news.

When I was with the Auxiliary State Police, I owned a Rugar .357 magnum which I kept locked up at all times unless I was on duty. Did I show my 10 year old daughter the firearm? Absolutely! I educated her. She held it (unloaded) and I answered all her questions. It went back into lock up and she never asked about it again.

I went target shooting a couple times a month. I can take that gun apart, clean it and put it back together with my eyes closed, that how well they trained us at the academy.

It's the idiots who think it's the "wild west" and go around waving guns in the air to look like they're tough. THOSE are the ones ya gotta look out for.

[kitten645]

"Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people."

Actually it's those pesky little bullets

[moosmom]

Actually it's those pesky little bullets

Um, oh yeah!!!!

[Lady's Human]

Public schools once had firearms teams as a sports option. Students and teachers used to bring their rifles on to school grounds during hunting season. It would seem reasonable, the younger people are taught firearm safety, accidents would be fewer and less severe.

As an NCO, your kids should have no problem passing basic firearms safety tests, after your instructions.

Read what you just posted.......OPTIONS

What you are proposing would be mandatory for all, by your own words.

I'd pull my kids out of school in a hot second if this ever became law. There are things that schools are not, should not, and never will be set up to teach. Mass firearms instruction is one of them.

Again, if parents want their children taught about firearms, they can do it at home.

[blue]

Not for those who wish to be trained. I object to this because you are requiring the general public to participate a certain sport/hobby.

The Swiss have been very successful at training their citizens to use firearms and keeping gun crime down. Being trained in firearms safety is not the same as participating in the sport/hobby.

I would object just as strongly if you were proposing that everyone be required to learn to drive a truck, take karate classes, use a chain saw or learn to use a digital camera.

Each of those things could be considered useful in self defense or crime prevention as well, couldn't they? But they are a choice, to be made by individuals, not mandated by the government.

I cannot argue against that.

I remember a thread not too long ago where you were vehemently objecting to the increase in cigarette taxes, stating essentially that the governement should not be able to "force" free people to quit smoking if they don't want to. Hmmmm ....

They arent forcing people to quit smoking, they are counting on people to keep smoking to raise funds. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, indeed.

So this person wants to kill someone. He knows how to use a gun. You work out whats going to happen next. 'Schizophrenia is the fourth leading cause of morbidity in both women and men, the second leading cause of international terrorism, and the leading cause of war. Schizophrenia is a humorous brain disorder characterized by delusional thinking and unique but unpopular perceptions.'- http://www.drleons.com/schizo/closet.htm

So all schizophrenics want to kill someone?

mor⋅bid⋅i⋅ty [mawr-bid-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun 1. a morbid state or quality.
2. the proportion of sickness or of a specific disease in a geographical locality.

mor·bid·i·ty (môr-bĭd'ĭ-tē)
n. pl. mor·bid·i·ties
The quality of being morbid; morbidness.
The rate of incidence of a disease.

I didnt realize being emo, peruse that link at your risk I didnt fully peruse it, was a disease.

Doctor Leon="A satire including sarcastic mental health definitions, visitors' questions with answers, commentary on therapy, and funny quotations."

My argument is that children of that age are too young and too irresponsible to be taught how to use a gun, if they are unable to see the needs and feelings of others, they are too young to be introduced to a killing machine.
The games do not teach safety, half of them are just going around shooting everything in sight. What about the kids who rebel against the forbidden? What about the kids who think guns are cool and want to show it to their friends? What about the fact that many kids gain the perception that life is cheap from these games and that killing becomes a game in itself? Evidence points to the fact that violence has been encouraged by glamourising things in the media.

The parts in bold are reasons why kids should have real world experience with firearms, focusing on safety. I believe you are underestimating children.

Wouldnt

What about the kids who rebel against the forbidden?

Mean those kids would not do the forbiden? Even if I read it wrong, educating those kids so the mystery as why its forbiden is no longer a mystery for those kids to rebel against.

No, not everyone, but by making it legal to carry a gun you are increasing the chances of a mass murderer being able to get a gun. And if everyone has a gun, accidents are bound to happen, people draw their guns for silly petty things, and if I was in a place where I knew everyone could carry a gun I would feel threatened, because I would never know who has anger issues, who has mental illnesses, and I would be scared to say anything to anybody.

By this argument gun crime in AK and other states that allow concealed carry would have a massive increase in murders and other criminal acts. Guess what, that didnt happen. You feeling threatened is a personal issue. Even in states or cities that dont allow concealed carry, odds are good somebody is carrying illegally, even in England.

No, that martial arts are better for defense. Martial arts rarely kill people (at least defense martial arts), and if someones coming at you with a knife you don't need to kill them, just snap a bone or two or throw them on the floor. No murder needed.

Martial arts can and do kill. The differense is the martial artist is the weapon, and by your argument weapons should be banned.

Food, water and aid are more important than guns. I could say that if everyone had aid they wouldn't need guns to protect it. People need aid to live, guns just take away that life.

Firearms protect food, water, aid, and life. If everyone had food, water, and aid, there are still those out there who will want to take it from others. Firearms protect life.

Give some thought of some of the underlying reasons for the lowering crime rates .... the "3 strikes and you are out" initiatives and the harsh penalties that exist in the US. Here in the UK our biggest problem is that we are soft on punishment and our prisons are so full that we have to free people early. Guaranteed to raise the crime rate I am sure you will agree! And as for the other places, I do not know enough about them to explain the reasons why.

The USA has just as many problems with prisoners being released early or not prosecuted at all due to prison populations, if not more so. Ill have to look into it.

Believe me, I am not planning to come to your town. No licence is just awful. Paranoid? Not really. I just want a world with less violence, and I don't want to promote a place which allows killing machines to be treated like everyday objects.

You might want to reconsider that, Alaska is a beautiful and unique place. When the licence restriction was dropped crime did not increase. See above for martial arts being a weapon and a method of killing.

It is my constitutional right as a U.S. citizen, to bear arms in my own home. I choose not to. Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people.

With all the violence that's in the news and on tv, not to mention the economy, I'm not surprized at all the violence in the news.

When I was with the Auxiliary State Police, I owned a Rugar .357 magnum which I kept locked up at all times unless I was on duty. Did I show my 10 year old daughter the firearm? Absolutely! I educated her. She held it (unloaded) and I answered all her questions. It went back into lock up and she never asked about it again.

I went target shooting a couple times a month. I can take that gun apart, clean it and put it back together with my eyes closed, that how well they trained us at the academy.

It's the idiots who think it's the "wild west" and go around waving guns in the air to look like they're tough. THOSE are the ones ya gotta look out for.

The parts in bold are the important points. I live alone with no kids and my firearms are in the safe.

"Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people."

Actually it's those pesky little bullets

Without the person and a firearm, bullets are harmless.

Read what you just posted.......OPTIONS

What you are proposing would be mandatory for all, by your own words.

Your posts actually got me thinking more on this subject.

Im a big fan of homeschooling. Schools dont have to do the teaching but the students would still have to pass basic firearms training, in stages. Yes, the qualifications would be mandatory but can be taught at home.

I'd pull my kids out of school in a hot second if this ever became law. There are things that schools are not, should not, and never will be set up to teach. Mass firearms instruction is one of them.

Absolutely fair. A plus however would be your kids could get extra credit for being a teachers assistant for the course.

Again, if parents want their children taught about firearms, they can do it at home.

Children get taught alot of things in public schools parents disagree with, why should expanding on safety be objectionable? Again the teaching can and could take place at home.

[blue]

I didnt start this thread to make waves or to be argumentative, I was only responding to a question .

Alot of people are uncomfortable with firearms, and I was only suggesting a way to make people more comfortable with firearms. I was hoping some of you would help destigmatise firearms.

You need training and testing in order to drive, but you arent required or mandated to drive. Im not saying anybody should be madated to own a firearm, but TMK more people die from driving accidents per year then criminal activity involving firearms.

[Red 46]

Saw your quote about the 550 million firearms in circulation, etc.. copied it down to read to my husband. I am new to all of this internet stuff and could not figure out how to reply to it. Just happened to run across YOU again tonight, and wanted to say how much I agree with your idea of making people more comfortable with firearms by starting them really young. My sister and I were given a .22 rifle at ages 7 and 10 and taught safety first and then how to fire the weapon, and then accuracy. We grew up around guns and both of us now are ex- military.

I agree with what you are saying and I hesitate to say it, but you sound a bit naive, if you think that within this current admistration, that any of what you are talking about will be possible. Maybe enough of us can convince the rest, to MAKE it possible.

Red 46

[Red 46]

I am a totally new user and just ran across this thread started by Blue and was amazed how many people there are who pretty much agree with at least some of what he is saying. I was taught firearms saftey by my dad who brought us home a deer every winter and bought my sister and I a .22 rifle when we were ages 7 (me) and 10. I agree with what you said about teaching children the correct way of handling situations... all except how to handle a real gun.. or at least to show them it is NOT a toy. One way some friends of ours did that was to shoot a shotgun into a watermelon. It makes an impression. It won't make the kid afraid unless that is what your intention is, but it does get their attention.

[Whisk_Luva]

So all schizophrenics want to kill someone?

mor⋅bid⋅i⋅ty [mawr-bid-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun 1. a morbid state or quality.
2. the proportion of sickness or of a specific disease in a geographical locality.

mor·bid·i·ty (môr-bĭd'ĭ-tē)
n. pl. mor·bid·i·ties
The quality of being morbid; morbidness.
The rate of incidence of a disease.

I didnt realize being emo, peruse that link at your risk I didnt fully peruse it, was a disease.

Doctor Leon="A satire including sarcastic mental health definitions, visitors' questions with answers, commentary on therapy, and funny quotations."

Satire or not, schizophrenics DO suffer hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking with significant social or occupational dysfunction. All of these can lead to further actions and problems if untreated. Where did I say all want to kill people? I said in a previous post that a schizophrenic WITH the potential to commit homicides.

As for the whole emo thing? What the...? What have emos got to do with anything?

The parts in bold are reasons why kids should have real world experience with firearms, focusing on safety. I believe you are underestimating children.

I don't think I am underestimating children at all. They are easily influenced- end of. I honestly don't see how real experience with a gun could help them in life, because guns are for one purpose only and that is violence. Give them a gun and you are encouraging violence.

Mean those kids would not do the forbiden? Even if I read it wrong, educating those kids so the mystery as why its forbiden is no longer a mystery for those kids to rebel against.

I mean those kids who want to rebel against what a higher authority says. So someone says one thing, they do the opposite.

By this argument gun crime in AK and other states that allow concealed carry would have a massive increase in murders and other criminal acts. Guess what, that didnt happen. You feeling threatened is a personal issue. Even in states or cities that dont allow concealed carry, odds are good somebody is carrying illegally, even in England.

Like I said I don't know about other places, I don't know the reasons why because I only know enough about the UK. As for my 'own personal issue', I am sure lots of people aren't to happy that everyone is carrying a gun. Guns kill. And yes I am well aware that the odd person will be carrying a gun illegally in the UK, but that is the odd few people, that it.

Martial arts can and do kill. The differense is the martial artist is the weapon, and by your argument weapons should be banned.

Did I say martial arts couldn't kill? What I am trying to get across is that if people learn a DEFENSE martial art they can therefore protect themselves, and they can just knock the person to the floor or whatever. No killing. They kill on purpose, they get locked up.

Firearms protect food, water, aid, and life. If everyone had food, water, and aid, there are still those out there who will want to take it from others. Firearms protect life.

You try telling that to someone who has been shot. So theft justifies murder in your opinion? I can just see the charities going out now, helping orphans in places where there has been a war, and giving them a gun, a gun that they saw kill their parents.

The USA has just as many problems with prisoners being released early or not prosecuted at all due to prison populations, if not more so. Ill have to look into it.

But the USA has harsher punishments, for example some states still have the death sentence, not saying I agree with this, but it is still there threating all the criminals out there.

You might want to reconsider that, Alaska is a beautiful and unique place. When the licence restriction was dropped crime did not increase. See above for martial arts being a weapon and a method of killing.

I am not worried whether crime increased or not- Alaska is a small place. I just don't want to promote places which allows guns to be an everyday object like I stated before. With martial arts you have the control and ability to decide what move you are going to make, and people aren't about to go out and kill people with it willy nilly. Aikido = defense. The moves are based around defense. All the moves are taught to us with one person pretending to attack us and then we get out of it somehow. We do not learn any fancy attack moves. It is defense. Thats it.

'Today Aikido is extremely defense oriented but nevertheless effective. Aikido really isn't designed for a prize fighting environment for pugilists to strut their stuff in front of screaming fans, Aikido is really for self-defense in a back alley at night in the winter against hoodlums.'
'O Sensei, the founder of aikido, believed that martial training is a path to non-violence, a physical method of creating a harmonious world'

[Whisk_Luva]

Still thinking about you telling me it was my own personal issues, today I decided to ask some people whether or not they would feel threatened if everyone had a gun.

16 out of 17 replied yes, they would feel threatened. That is about 94% by the way.

Of course I didn't ask that many people, but I think that it prooves it is not just me.

[Puckstop31]

Still thinking about you telling me it was my own personal issues, today I decided to ask some people whether or not they would feel threatened if everyone had a gun.

16 out of 17 replied yes, they would feel threatened. That is about 94% by the way.

Didn't ask that many people, but I think that it prooves it is not just me.

Fair nuff... But also note that your society is much different than ours. That is not a good or bad thing, it just is.

[kokopup]

Quote by Blue

You need training and testing in order to drive, but you arent required or mandated to drive. Im not saying anybody should be madated to own a firearm, but TMK more people die from driving accidents per year then criminal activity involving firearms.

Actually in 2008 the number of deaths by Automobile and by Gun shot were almost even. Forget your term criminal activity. Accident and sucicide should be included. Statistics show as the economy goes down auto deaths go down. The reverse is true of gun related deaths. We can expect gun death to really spike this year.

I was raised on Guns. Every room of my fathers house was a gun room at one time. I owned and handled guns from an early age. I am a charter Member of at least 3 state gun associations. My father has 9 guns he made in The Smithsonian Museum of American History. I have a long long history with guns. I know both the good and the bad of gun ownership.

One truth I found is that the more people you have with guns the more deaths and accidents you will have. I know of at least 5 individual trained Gun collectors that have shot themselves with "unloaded guns". I know several hunters that have shot or have been shot by accident or fall out of a tree stand because they were holding onto a gun instead of hanging on. Adults can't be trained about the proper use of firearms, so how on earth are you going to teach children. People in general become very stupid when it comes to guns or automobiles. If you put a gun in every drivers hand it would solve some of the congestion on our highways. Road rage would take on a whole new meaning.

If you want to own a gun fine. If you want your Kids to be trained about guns fine. If you make Gun training univerally mandatory you are asking for a disaster. Gun deaths would definately go up.

[blue]

Still thinking about you telling me it was my own personal issues, today I decided to ask some people whether or not they would feel threatened if everyone had a gun.

16 out of 17 replied yes, they would feel threatened. That is about 94% by the way.

Of course I didn't ask that many people, but I think that it prooves it is not just me.

You're right, it is a cultural issue and I apologise.

Actually in 2008 the number of deaths by Automobile and by Gun shot were almost even. Forget your term criminal activity. Accident and sucicide should be included. Statistics show as the economy goes down auto deaths go down. The reverse is true of gun related deaths. We can expect gun death to really spike this year.

I was raised on Guns. Every room of my fathers house was a gun room at one time. I owned and handled guns from an early age. I am a charter Member of at least 3 state gun associations. My father has 9 guns he made in The Smithsonian Museum of American History. I have a long long history with guns. I know both the good and the bad of gun ownership.

One truth I found is that the more people you have with guns the more deaths and accidents you will have. I know of at least 5 individual trained Gun collectors that have shot themselves with "unloaded guns". I know several hunters that have shot or have been shot by accident or fall out of a tree stand because they were holding onto a gun instead of hanging on. Adults can't be trained about the proper use of firearms, so how on earth are you going to teach children. People in general become very stupid when it comes to guns or automobiles. If you put a gun in every drivers hand it would solve some of the congestion on our highways. Road rage would take on a whole new meaning.

The stats for 2008 are published? Care to share the link? Ive been looking for them on the web and havent found them. Ill see if I can find statistics for remote villages where allmost every home has a firearm.

If you want to own a gun fine. If you want your Kids to be trained about guns fine. If you make Gun training univerally mandatory you are asking for a disaster. Gun deaths would definately go up.

Im not talking more guns Im talking about safety training. Bring back the Eddie Eagle Program and it wouldnt cost the taxpayers anything. So why would firearm deaths go up with increased safety training?

Even if the safety training did bring 1 firearm to every household that wouldnt be a great increase in the USA, it would be a huge start as long as the arms are legally obtained.

Yes the thread title sucked, but it did get alot of hits and even flattered me with a spinoff thread.
_________________

10 people live and, I think, nobody got raped because someone used a firearm. So much for firearms being used only to take lives.

College Student Shoots, Kills Home Invader

Posted: 4:53 pm EDT May 4, 2009
Updated: 6:41 pm EDT May 4, 2009
COLLEGE PARK, Ga. -- A group of college students said they are lucky to be alive and they’re thanking the quick-thinking of one of their own. Police said a fellow student shot and killed one of two masked me who burst into an apartment.

Channel 2 Action News reporter Tom Jones met with one of the students to talk about the incident.

“Apparently, his intent was to rape and murder us all,” said student Charles Bailey.

TOM JONES: College Student Shoots, Kills Home Invader

Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.

“They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.

Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

That’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.

The student then ran to the room where the second gunman, identified by police as 23-year-old Calvin Lavant, was holding the women.

“Apparently the guy was getting ready to rape his girlfriend. So he told the girls to get down and he started shooting. The guy jumped out of the window,” said Bailey.

A neighbor heard the shots and heard someone running nearby.

“And I heard someone say, ‘Someone help me. Call the police. Somebody call the police,’” said a neighbor.

The neighbor said she believes it was Lavant, who was found dead near his apartment, only one building away.

Bailey said he is just thankful one student risked his life to keep others alive.

“I think all of us are really cognizant of the fact that we could have all been killed,” said Bailey.

One female student was shot several times during the crossfire. She is expected to make a full recovery.

Police said they are close to making the arrest of the second suspect.

Source.

[Whisk_Luva]

You're right, it is a cultural issue and I apologise.

It has nothing to do with culture, and it is not an issue. It's common sense. Anyones opinion that is different from your own doesn't make it an 'issue' you know.

Hardly an apology, you are still insulting me, if anything it's worse, insulting a whole culture. Talk about categorizing.

[kokopup]

Quote by Blue
The stats for 2008 are published? Care to share the link? Ive been looking for them on the web and havent found them. Ill see if I can find statistics for remote villages where allmost every home has a firearm.

http://www.nysun.com/national/surpri...uicides/80978/

This link points out that a 55 percent of gunshot deaths is suicide.

There are several links that point out that a good percentage of these
are teenagers. Unfortunately we are seeing a trend where those
suicidal people are taking others with them.