Michael Vick scores again....

[phesina]

KB was never convicted, he settled out of court and the charges were dropped when the woman refused to testify in the case.

It does suck when people get to walk on any kind of criminal case.

He also signed a huge contract -about 130 million - to endorse a product. He also got back some of his endorsement contracts after he was 'cleared', I don't like KB either but it can't denied that both of the idiots are talented beyond their 'smartness'

I am not making a case for them, nor am I praising them-it's just a fact that they are good at what they do. They do not deserve any special treatment in the real world, but I do find the people that wear the jerseys and make it an extra effort to hold them in the same esteem they had before they screwed up, to be just as stupid as their 'heroes' are.

Sorry, I thought Kobe was convicted and served time. (Now I suppose he'll sue me for libel, and win.) Shows you how closely I follow professional sports!

Still, if either of these guys, talented as they are, had ever been convicted of child abuse, they'd be history. That is the one crime that is unforgivable. But rape and animal torture/murder get a pass depending on who's done it. Such a world!

[blue]

I think Es's argument that MV should be forgiven is just plain wrong. The guy deserves every bit of punishment on and off the field he gets, regardless of how ES and President Obama feel about second chances.

And Liz, we all know MV wont tell his kids why he cant own a dog, you should call them and tell them why they cant have a puppy.

[shais_mom]

I think Es's argument that MV should be forgiven is just plain wrong. The guy deserves every bit of punishment on and off the field he gets, regardless of how ES and President Obama feel about second chances.

And Liz, we all know MV wont tell his kids why he cant own a dog, you should call them and tell them why they cant have a puppy.

I say give them a copy of the book I mentioned and tell them that if the puppy potty's on the floor - it might get drowned in its own water bowl or beaten until it is dead b/c in his knuckleheaded pea brain that's proper punishment. Wonder what he does to those girls when they do wrong?

[Karen]

Hey, we can agree to disagree about whether MV deserve a second chance or not, but really, his kids could just be told "No, you cannot have a dog. When you are a grown-up, and have your own place to live, then you can get whatever dog you want. You just cannot have one now."

I don't know how old his children are, but I am sure they will, sooner or later, learn of what he did. Better they hear it from him, now, and know that his former behavior is the reason they cannot have a dog now, than they find out from some schoolmate in a hateful way. It could be a lesson in actions having consequences, if handled correctly. But he should never, ever be allowed the privilege of owning a dog again.

[Alysser]

Isn't that sometimes incorporated with animal abuse cases, where the abuser can NEVER own another animal again? For some reason I feel like that has been posted here before.

[wombat2u2004]

It is completely inappropriate to refer to any member of our board by "it". It is demeaning, demoralizing and offensive. I haven't a clue why Karen continues to allow you to do this, but, I for one, won't let it go unnoticed.

Accusations Accusations....no proof....just accusations.
Don't like my posts ??? DON'T READ THEM

[Puckstop31]

Absolutely a pedophile should not be allowed anywhere near children. But Vick abused animals (which I absolutely ABHOR. I think any animal fighting is disgusting and dispicable - including human boxing. I think it is dehumanizing. But animal is worse because they do not have a choice.)

And while I may think most NFL players are animals - they are not the kind of animal Vick abused.

I have this situation with managers frequently - they don't want to hire someone who has had a conviction - and my argument - if they have been punished and no one will hire them - what will they do to make a living? More crimes?

Of course, it depends on the nature of the crime and the job for which they seek employment. That doesn't mean I want to hang out with convicted felons nor condone the crimes committed.

Disgusted as I am by what Vick did - and as much as I think sports figures are overpaid - there is a principle about redemption, debt to society paid, etc. that needs to be considered.

Holy smokes! We agree! (Well, on the core principal here about crime, punishment and REDEMPTION!)

So, I guess zebra's CAN change their stripes after all?

[Edwina's Secretary]

There are people who have given people who have been in jail a chance.
The only one who gets thanked by the prez is the moron who gave MV the job.

Just curious...how do you know that? How do you know the president didn't thank other people who gave ex-convicts a job? How do you know this is the only one who gets thanked?

What if he HAD been a garbage man? Should he be barred from ever being a garbage man again?

If you accept the sentiment - of the president thanking someone who gave an ex-con a second chance - would it be different if the ex-con was a pedophile? Rapist? Murderer? Drug dealer?

[RICHARD]

Just curious...how do you know that? How do you know the president didn't thank other people who gave ex-convicts a job? How do you know this is the only one who gets thanked?

What if he HAD been a garbage man? Should he be barred from ever being a garbage man again?

If you accept the sentiment - of the president thanking someone who gave an ex-con a second chance - would it be different if the ex-con was a pedophile? Rapist? Murderer? Drug dealer?

I don't pretend to play politics like you do.

And I really don't give a shiat about the garbage man, I paid property taxes and expect my trash to get hauled. As I said before and your eyes may have glazed over when you got to the part where I said that MV has a union and all the money to hire lawyers to get his job back. What garbage man has that luxury?


BTW?

Bill Richardson couldn't give Billy the Kid a pardon, so why should MV get one?

------------

I haven't played 'what if' with you in a while, let's make it a while more?

[Nomilynn]

@Nom- okay, imagine this: a teacher gets convicted of pedophilia, serves his/her time and is released. Ok to go back to teaching? I think most of us would say that is an "H" to the "N", right? Why? Cause certain crimes ARE different than others. This one was one of them, to me. Sometimes people cannot be rehabilitated. Animal abuse isn't about the animal...it is about the person.

I think he should never, ever, be allowed within 10 feet of an animal, alone. I think people, as a whole, should stand up and do something more when it comes to crimes like this. Not just welcome him into the football fold as if he ran a red light. Why? Cause maybe just maybe there would be the fear of a public shunning for doing certain things.

Back in the day? Not yours or mine, I realize...but, 'bad' people didn't really get that free pass back into society. My parents weren't friends with kids that had been in the klink. To this day, the ONLY people I know that have served time in prison are clients. I don't associate with people that are convicted felons, outside of my job. Actually, can't really say I associate with people that are convicted misdemeanorers', either. I am excluding the traffic offenders, btw. Does that mean I am judgmental? As if there were a doubt, right?

Certainly, I think Pres O shouldn't have said a thing.

I completely agree, that a pedophile should not be allowed to teach children. I just see this as slightly different, because he wasn't doing something that related to football. I think that the general public will shun him, and perhaps him being in the limelight is a way for that to continue to happen.

And yes, he should NEVER be allowed to be near animals again - that I completely agree with as well. I am just not sure that he shouldn't "be allowed" to play football again.. but like I said, I'm not able to look at this clearly.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I haven't played 'what if' with you in a while, let's make it a while more?

sure...try the truth...or at least some approximation of it and I'll be glad to make it forever!

I just don't like overblown rhetoric..."why is the ONLY one..." when you don't have any idea if it is true or not.

[shais_mom]

umm -
yea - back to the TOPIC - at hand -
rather than the the TOTAL change of topic it turned too

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...#ixzz19fIWHlyX

"The details that got to me then and stay with me today involve the swimming pool that was used to kill some of the dogs," Reynolds wrote on her blog. "Jumper cables were clipped onto the ears of underperforming dogs, then, just like with a car, the cables were connected to the terminals of car batteries before lifting and tossing the shamed dogs into the water."

She continued, "We don't know how many suffered this premeditated murder, but the damage to the pool walls tells a story. It seems that while they were scrambling to escape, they scratched and clawed at the pool liner and bit at the dented aluminum sides like a hungry dog on a tin can.

"I wear some pretty thick skin during our work with dogs, but I can't shake my minds-eye image of a little black dog splashing frantically in bloody water ... screaming in pain and terror ... brown eyes saucer wide and tiny black white-toed feet clawing at anything, desperate to get a hold. This death did not come quickly. The rescuer in me keeps trying to think of a way to go back in time and somehow stop this torture and pull the little dog to safety. I think I'll be looking for ways to pull that dog out for the rest of my life."

Vick did all that and more to his dogs, and even threw family pets into the pit with fighters and laughed while they were mauled, according to a witness who testified to federal investigators.

That's what sends dog lovers out to football games with protest signs: knowing that Michael Vick tortured and killed innocent dogs. That he has never paid for that abuse or even apologized for it.

Because the nation's most notorious dogfighter pled "not guilty" to animal cruelty charges -- charges that were eventually dropped in a plea bargain -- and he was convicted only of bankrolling a dogfighting conspiracy, for which he served 18 months in prison before being welcomed back to the public spotlight.

Even worse, he's shown no sign of understanding of, or regret over, the fate of his dogs.

"Vick has never expressed one word of remorse for what he did to those dogs," said McClay. "Not in any of his public statements, and not in his appearance on '60 Minutes.' Vick said he 'let it happen.' He slammed and beat and hung dogs to death. It's like Ted Bundy saying, 'I let someone murder this girl.' He doesn't take any responsibility for it."

Reynolds doesn't think it's an accident that most of Vick's supporters are so in the dark about his crimes against dogs.

"It worked out nicely for Vick that he never faced his animal abuse charges in court," she told me. "That meant football fans were spared the most disturbing details of his tortures and could go back to their Sunday night ritual with barely a hiccup."

But by all means - he has served his time and b/c these are dogs and not kids let's forgive him.
When I was at 5 Dog Mom's house the other night she said something that makes total sense. We as dog and cat/animal lovers find this whole thing horrific and of COURSE we don't forgive him. But people that don't care about animals and have no regard for their suffering and pain, are the ones that think he needs forgiven.

[shais_mom]

I always make snide comments when the Eagles are playing. I loved the fact that he was sacked 6 times last night!! Woo Hoo!!
My boyfriend says - he's paid his dues and done his time.
My response - I DON'T CARE! He should have never done what he did in the first place. PERIOD!
He agreed with me on that one.

Ask him if he wants a guy that is convicted of burglary and theft, or a rapist/sexual offender moving in beside you. They served their time too. Or a guy (or woman for that matter) convicted of beating an elderly person, does he want that person to move in beside his mom or grandma??

[RICHARD]

I just don't like overblown rhetoric.

I suck and try not to blow.

It works for me.

[lizbud]

I suck and try not to blow.

It works for me.

Be a big man & let it go Richard. Did you read Staci's posts? Comment on
the subject of the thread why don't you.