Michael Vick scores again....

[Alysser]

Cataholic, I agree and totally realize that one was by accident and one was intentional. I was merely pointing out that other players have done similar things without such a huge public outcry whenever their name is mentioned. I guess Vick was more popular, therefore people made a bigger deal about it? That, I do not know. To me, what both players did is "unforgivable" but that isn't to say they can't redeem their lives.

And with your last paragraph, I agree 100%. Is MV a bigger scumbag than Stallworth? In most ways, yes. I don't think I would ever hold a human life higher than and animal life, but that's just me. Who are we to do that? But both actions (dog fighting & drinking) were BOTH preventable and I am sure both knew what they were doing at the time. Although, I KNOW Stallworth didn't mean to hurt, yet alone kill anyone. AND that is the difference between the crimes, as you stated, and again I totally agree. I guess I was just reinforcing my belief that he deserves a second chance, but IMO, not in the NFL.

And at the risk of being hated for saying "I agree" again, I am also totally 100% with you on the importance of any life. I feel the exact same way about that.

Pomtzu, he definitely got off way easier than anybody would've liked I'm sure. Unfortunately most people who abuse animals do. Animal Cruelty laws are not very solid, IMO

[pomtzu]

Pomtzu, he definitely got off way easier than anybody would've liked I'm sure. Unfortunately most people who abuse animals do. Animal Cruelty laws are not very solid, IMO

I think the fate of all animal abusers should be turned over to all the folks of Pet Talk. They would give more than just a slap on the wrist!!!

BTW - the question you had about MU - granddaughter says it exceeds academically, but the sports teams suck big time! The campus is great but the food is miserable. You can have your own car on campus with a permit - for a price of course. You either need a car to get around, or have some friends that do. She volunteers at the humane society in town, and a cab costs her $9 if she can't catch a ride with a friend. The good outweighs the bad - it sounds like a place that you would probably like.

[Cataholic]

I always have a problem expressing what I feel about lives- human or animal. It isn't that I place a higher value on animals than I do humans, but, that I place value on ALL living creatures. I never see it as a "which has more value" but that ALL have value. Like if you had two children...you wouldn't choose to save one over the other, in the case of a fire, would you? You would save both. You wouldn't say, "these are both humans, I must save both" you would say, "these lives are worth dying for, and I will save both". There is a difference.

Pom- you can jump on my bandwagon any ole time you like.

[RICHARD]

Anyone that watched the game knows that MV is lucky to be alive.

He got his arse handed to him by the Vikes D-line.

I was surprised that he was still walking after the hip injury.

[Cataholic]

@Richard- I don't watch football. So, I didn't see the game. Are you saying that MV was treated more harshly because of the dog fighting stuff, or that it just was a very physical game cause that is the way it went?

[Nomilynn]

It appeared that the game was very physical. I was actually surprised.. it was far more (for lack of a better word) violent than any football game I've seen in a long time. I don't know if that had to do with Vick, or just a change in the game in general, which is a whole 'nother thread.

I was talking to my dad about it while we were watching the game. On the one hand, I would hate to think that we lived in a society where someone who committed a crime, went to jail and served a sentance, and got back out could never get a job again doing their chosen profession. I would say the same thing about someone who was a delivery driver, sales person, etc. So in that respect, I think it's only natural that at some point, Vick was going to play professional football again. On the other hand, I don't like him, I don't believe that he's sorry, and I do believe that if he hadn't been caught he'd still be doing it and not feeling an ounce of remorse. I just don't think that means that he shouldn't be allowed to have a job, his job. It's touchy because it's a questions of morals for me, and that's not "fair" because it involves all kinds of personal judgements.

[Cataholic]

@Nom- okay, imagine this: a teacher gets convicted of pedophilia, serves his/her time and is released. Ok to go back to teaching? I think most of us would say that is an "H" to the "N", right? Why? Cause certain crimes ARE different than others. This one was one of them, to me. Sometimes people cannot be rehabilitated. Animal abuse isn't about the animal...it is about the person.

I think he should never, ever, be allowed within 10 feet of an animal, alone. I think people, as a whole, should stand up and do something more when it comes to crimes like this. Not just welcome him into the football fold as if he ran a red light. Why? Cause maybe just maybe there would be the fear of a public shunning for doing certain things.

Back in the day? Not yours or mine, I realize...but, 'bad' people didn't really get that free pass back into society. My parents weren't friends with kids that had been in the klink. To this day, the ONLY people I know that have served time in prison are clients. I don't associate with people that are convicted felons, outside of my job. Actually, can't really say I associate with people that are convicted misdemeanorers', either. I am excluding the traffic offenders, btw. Does that mean I am judgmental? As if there were a doubt, right?

Certainly, I think Pres O shouldn't have said a thing.

[RICHARD]

@Richard- I don't watch football. So, I didn't see the game. Are you saying that MV was treated more harshly because of the dog fighting stuff, or that it just was a very physical game cause that is the way it went?

I don't know if he was treated any more harshly because of the dog fighting history, but.........

At the end of the year with so many playoff scenarios? There are teams wanting to improve on their standings for pride, some wanting to make the playoffs and some trying to play spoiler..The Vikes sucked this year and they were trying to keep Philly from getting any momentum going and to win the game.

MV is a mobile quarterback and he took many hits on Tues. He was really harrassed and some of the D-line players really teed off on him. I am sure that there are dog lovers in the NFL but they would never admit that they were trying to hurt him...to tell you the truth, when you play. you really don't care about stuff like that.

You want to knock the shiat out of MV, but when you aim that high, you do stupid things and open the door for penalties, ejection and maybe a League fine.

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That all said?

I am going to say something that will irritate some of you....

MV is a chump and a moron. I don't like him and think that he should be used to train attack/guard dogs. (I wish I had been the judge on that trial, I would have made him do that for about 6 months, and clean kennels for a year....)

MV is beyond talented as a football player.

Had he kept his nose clean he would be among the most revered and loved QBs in the game.

HE did pay a price for his a-holery, He lost playing time, money and went to jail.

This guy can play the game and is beyond what a coach would want from a player. I shook my head when I saw the games he played in-I never went out of my way to watch, but I would tune in to see him get creamed.

I guess that I am trying to say is that when you see someone THAT talented and gifted do stupid things like fight and kill dogs? the suspicion is that they have some kind of flaw in their character...no, no suspicion, it's a fact.

That is the saddest and most irritating thing about someone with that kind of gift......they have the ability to be tops in their field, but not the brains to execute a 'law abiding' living.

The more I see him play, I am even more angered that someone could be that brilliant at their profession, yet so dim in their life.

I'll never be a fan of his.

He did serve his time for what he did. But unless he saves a mom and her puppies from an ice floe going over Niagra Falls?

And even then, I would not readily forgive him.

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I guess it's up to what history will say about him.

I do believe in penance and forgiveness, but that's further down the line and not up to me to hand them out.

If you watch him play, you will see an exceptional talent. IT is separate from his personal life, but you are the same being when you walk into/onto your job.

IT's his cross to bear and it will follow him forever.

[RICHARD]

I just pushed away from the comp and thought about the numbers.

In the United States there are, what 300 million people?

Of those there are 1300 that play football.

Of those 1300, 32 start in the QB slot for an NFL team.

MV is one of the 32.

Not trying to plead his case?

That is one of the moind boggling facts.

He is good enough to play, but too stupid to stay out of trouble?