About Prison Conditions (long)

[blue]

Just curious - has anyone here had a friend or relative they liked wind up in jail?

Ive worked with people I grew to like who spent 2-20 years in jail.

I also worked with a convicted pedophile I would have rather killed then work with him.

[jennielynn1970]

I've had friends and relatives who have ended up in jail. Some in county prisons, one, who was a boyfriend at one point (before the prison term) that I know of who was in federal. I actually found out about him being in prison by Googling his name. He had a tendency to go off the map for long periods of time, and it must have been 2002 or 2003 when it had been too long that I hadn't heard from him.

Turns out he somehow got into a counterfeiting operation, and had gotten caught with a gun that had the serial number filed off (this was in Philadeplia). I was absolutely shocked. This was a guy I had known for about 8 years at that point, and I never, ever thought he'd be involved in something like that. When we met we both did billing and collections for doctors and anesthesia. Where counterfeiting came into that, and illegal guns, I have no clue.

He ended up in federal prison, due to the illegal handgun (not the money), and I really don't know what happened to him in there, but I can imagine. He was tall, thin, not a very "masculine" guy, if you get my drift.

When I did confront him about the prison term, and all that had gone on, he did talk to me, and vowed he would never go back to federal prison. He was out on appeal.

The last time we talked he told me that the appeal was going well and everything should be fine. That was September of 2004. He killed himself a week later. I found out from his federally appointed attorney that he lost the appeal and was going to be going back to federal prison. They found him hanging from a tree the morning he was supposed to go back.

For him to do that, it still doesn't fit with the guy I knew. Just like what he did. That wasn't the guy I knew, loved and dated.

[critter crazy]

Just curious - has anyone here had a friend or relative they liked wind up in jail?

Yup, and they all deserved, some even went back. If they had gone to sherrif Joes prison, i highly doubt that tehy would have returned.

[critter crazy]

Blue, they wouldn't have to worry about food rotting, either, but I'd be more partial to the back 40 of Ft Drum, NY.

Hotter than hell in the summer, and long stretches of sub zero weather in the winter....and not much in between.

Dude, no kidding!! Everytime I went to Ft. Drum, no matter what time of the year, It ws always a miserable time!! We were there in August one year, and I froze my but off!!! LOL!! That would totally be a great spot for a Prison!

[RICHARD]

Arpaio runs a jail-not a prison.

I can see tossing a short term criminal into the clink there, but he doesn't have the facilities to house longer termed-hardened crooks in a setting like that.

The shire reeve is one of those creepy PIP who do things at an extreme level and then crow about it. Pink underwear, striped shirts and the chain gangs are part of putting down the law in the town and nothing more than that.

If the taxpayers are OK with him losing 30 million dollars -almost 2 million dollars a year since he was put in charge of the county's inmates, so be it.
Two million dollars a year hires how many more cops?
A few squad cars?
Overtime?
Community policing programs?
Equipment?

They just award criminals and their families money from the taxpayers that could be put to better use. As it is, they pay for that AHs arrogance and rules.

Yes, they did commit crimes and should be punished accordingly, but why should they be given a chance to benenfit from it? Would it make anyone feel good to put a person in jail who had a few parking tickets that were not paid and have them die there, in a jail that's closer to hell than it is punishment?


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It's pretty much the same with the El Lay county sheriffs- Look up the name Lee Baca and the stats on how the jails, more conventional that Arpaio's, wererun and you'd see the corruption, the beatings and deaths that occured under his watch.

[sparks19]

Nope... seems that my family are law abiding citizens. Imagine that.

And you know... I probably would feel sorry for them if a friend of family went to prison BUT... if they were truly guilty of their crime... they get what they deserve. It's JAIL. Generally I like to think that people are smart enough to understand that if they commit a crime they could go to jail. NO sympathy. they made their choice.

[Catty1]

What I noted was what appeared to me here as black-and-white thinking.

There are "good guys" and "bad guys" and all the "bad guys" are scum and ALL of them should be in the worst jail possible.

critter crazy

Yup, and they all deserved, some even went back. If they had gone to sherrif Joes prison, i highly doubt that tehy would have returned.

And I doubt you read the whole article then. The evidence is there - Joe's jail, or any harsh punishment, does NOT stop the person from committing crimes and "going back there". Unless they kill themselves.

Jenn - very sad story. THANK YOU for showing there are "shades of grey" in these situations.

Otherwise, much of the thinking here seems to be that all people in jail are equally bad and deserve hell. Then they come out even meaner and hell-bent on revenge. Gee, can't figure THAT out! And sparks19, where are they going to get rehab in a hellhole like that?

I don't care if a place has a workout room and good food. You still can't go anywhere you please. Your roommates and neighbours are chosen for you.

Even lose the good food and workout rooms - everyone has rights under the Constitution/Bill of Rights (Canada).

I'll bet poverty and tough economic times lead otherwise decent people to get into a situation out of desperation. Perhaps that was your friend, Jenn.

I haven't learned tons in life and have a long way to go - but part of being a formerly active addict meant that my thinking was all-or-nothing, black-and-white. Only as I slowly recovered did I come to realize that life is full of grey areas, and that there are few - if any - absolutes.

BTW - the fellow who wrote that letter to the editor? Former CNR cop of several decades. I agree with what he says - being a "do-gooder" is a good thing; nothing wrong with it at all.

[shepgirl]

Lately it seems the prisoners have more rights than the law abiding citizens. I know this as factual since my cousin is head macho in the prison system. The things prisoners have access to is ridiculous, they are treated better than some of us.
Big deal if they can't go anywhere...lots of handicapped or sick people never get to go out either.
As for hard times and economic changes making people do things out of desperation, I won't buy into that one. You don't rely on blaming the system for your troubles, you get off your butt and fix things.
Bad enough we are supporting our prisoners in grand style, no need to add insult to injury.
I feel if you commit the deed you pay for it . Fair is fair. Just because you are short of money or lose a job doesn't give you the right to take it out on society by committing crimes.

[sparks19]

Spin it how you want. I still don't think prisons should be like summer camp. and not everyone faces the same sentences. The differences between minimum security prisons and maximum security prisons are quite large. So if you rob a store unarmed it's unlikely you are going to end up in the maximum security prison.

I may see it black and white I suppose... but to me.. it pretty much is. You commit a crime, you are found guilty, you spend time in jail. Sorry if it doesn't prepare them to be model citizens because they don't get the finest foods or top of line work out equipment or sleep number beds and that they have to stay in a cell... apparently they weren't model citizens before. and many places have access to a prison psychiatrist. hence where they can get their rehab.

Each person makes a choice... I have made the choice to be law abiding ... therefore I don't end up in prison

[critter crazy]

I may see things as black and white, but that is how I chose to see them. It is my right after all.

And yes I do feel that people who commit crimes are scum. They did not have to commit a crime, they chose to. There fore they lose their rights as a free citizen, and should be treated like the criminals they are.

Criminals should not have all the privledges that I have! they should not get to have a gym, or TV or anything else. If I had my way, they would be confined to a Very small cell, and have no access to the outside what so ever.

It it pretty sad that we are fighting over the rights of people who have Robbed, raped, mudered ect..... As far as I am concerned they have no rights. They should suffer just as the people whom they hurt, have suffered, if not more.

I dont care how rough life is, it is no excuse to break the law! I have had tons of hard times in my life. I have yet to break any laws! There is no excuse!! My husband and I both lost our jobs the same year, going from well over 150k a year to Nothing! We lived off of hotdogs and mac n cheese. But we managed to keep our home, feed and cloth our kids, and get jobs. Sure we still arent making what we used to, but who cares?? we are doing just fine. No laws needed to be broken. People need to just suck it up, and drive on!

[Catty1]

You commit a crime, you are found guilty, you spend time in jail. Sorry if it doesn't prepare them to be model citizens because they don't get the finest foods or top of line work out equipment or sleep number beds and that they have to stay in a cell... apparently they weren't model citizens before. and many places have access to a prison psychiatrist. hence where they can get their rehab.

I largely agree here - no one is talking about model citizens, best food, great work equipment - again, that is a black or white description.

The original point was that Sheriff Joe's jail has no opportunity for rehab, or anything else. A baby died there...why? Because a piece of scum bore it?

A decent - not luxurious - prison has some basic medical care, and makes an attempt to see who can be rehabilitated and who can't. Sheriff Joe's place doesn't do that. A point RICHARD made is that some $30 million has been paid by Joe for fighting lawsuits etc. I don't know what moved him to set up a tent jail like that.

I just hope he isn't single, because that means many women friends of mine have a statistical chance of marrying him.

A lot of psychopaths wind up in prison...I wonder if they also run them?

http://www.yourlifeworks.ninemsn.com...aspx?id=373544

Industries which attract the office psychopath
Real estate, sales, security, advertising and finance but the biggest numbers are in the public sector such as teaching and health.

http://www.bookofjoe.com/2004/12/the_psychopath_.html

As [Robert] Hare put it in one interview, "If I couldn't study psychopaths in prison, I would go down to the Stock Exchange."

It's not only business, but fields such as politics, law, policing, religious organizations and news, that attract psychopaths. David Hogben, Vancouver Sun

[shepgirl]

Oh I LOVE this idea. if they can't FIND paying jobs then they will be giving community service jobs since the community are the ones that are technically paying their way.

Our city loves the idea also. But guess who the loudest protesters are....you got it...the people on welfare. Those of course that have no reason to be on in the first place but know how to play the systwm so well they live better than most working people. Hard to give up a free handout to earn your own living after being supported by other hard working people.
The community is fighting hard to make this work but these people come up with the most awesome threats, like lawsuits because they are being threatened by being asked to do a few menial jobs. Some declare health issues but have no proof, they will sue because they can't sleep at night worrying about this....lol. It just never ends...

[Catty1]

So...people on welfare are the same as those in jail?

I dated someone who went to prison for a short time. He had tasks, and earned $7 an hour to do them. These went towards paying off his fine, which shortened his jail stay. Good incentive to work. Minimum security.

Crime? Forgetting to renew his car insurance the year before, and he was nabbed when coming back from overseas through Canada customs.

Joe's jail would have been totally pointless.

[Lady's Human]

Lack of car insurace isn't a jailable offense in the US, AFAIK, unless there are other issues involved.

Sheriff Joe's jail is a non-issue in that case.

[Catty1]

LH - I just got the impression that if someone goes to jail, most here think it should be Sheriff Joe's kind of jail. I am purporting that it is not appropriate much of the time.

Bearing in mind that there are always exceptions to every rule, I think that humane conditions and helping people to achieve a second chance ought to be the rule in prison.