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Im a little curious to see what you would ask him if you ever had a chance to face to face with him? with ALL anger and discust put aside, is there something you might want to know or any ideas on educating? theres got to be something we can learn from him to help delete animal abuse in this country.
I'd like to know how he fell into the life style... why did he feel it was ok to electrocute and drown a dog... why not place the dogs who didn't want to fight into proper pet homes, or let them go out quickly? Why did he not take time to research what traits come with certain bloodlines... why did he not take the time and effort to make athletes of his dogs? Even the common pet owner with the proper schooling on the history of the dang breed will find that they don't put on those kinds of contests without a CRAP load of work into each dog. Dogs were not taken lightly, they were huge investments with both money and time. I guess everything is freaking disposable to a super star.Quote:
Originally Posted by redog
I do not condone dog fighting in the slightest, but I'm not blind about what goes on across the world. Never can there be a true "right way" but there is DEFINITELY IMO a WRONG way.
I'd need a gang to prevent me from tearing him limb from limb.
No, me meeting him is NOT a good idea.
A curious qestion this is..I'd honestly need a few minutes to think about this. What's done is done, I suppose. I'd really just want him to tell me something that'd really show me that he was sorry for his actions and that he regretted them. It would take alot. I wouldn't really have anything to ask him other then "Are you really truely sorry for your actions?".
I've seen him on interveiws and they did ask him these questions, he kept a too strong a composure for me. I'd want him to show me or say something straight from the heart to show me he regretted everything he did to those poor animals.
You and me both, Freedom!!!Quote:
I'd need a gang to prevent me from tearing him limb from limb.
No, me meeting him is NOT a good idea.
I wouldn't give that piece of garbage the time of day or a glass of ice water in hell.
My feelings exactly!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
yeah I know im still sick about what he did but this still goes on by folks who do what their fathers and grandfathers did. At least thats what Im confronted with when I visit different local communities. for those people its daily life. I might be more acustomed to the horror stories than most. so I usually dont care enough about an indvidual enough to even have an opinion on that person anymore. use your imaginations here.
IBC-
your so slick arent you? thsts what Im talking about!
and Alysser-
maybe he would be able to answer that better without a camera and mic in his face. Im not really sure if hes really human at all, but theres got to be something we can learn from him
I don't feel that there is anything that could be learned from speaking to this Monster, and I would never want to be close enough to him to even ask. :mad: He would probably be shocked at some of the language that this little old lady would use on him anyway! :eek:
No. I would not be interested in hearing about his past or his upbringing or any such stories that he might try to con people with so that he could evoke sympathy. Yes, we are a "product of our raising" as a country song states but there comes a point in life where we have to take responsibility for our own conduct and stop placing blame. Vick KNOWS that what he did to those dogs was not only wrong but reprehensible and any attempt to make us believe otherwise is an insult to our intelligence. He has nothing of value to offer any one as far as I'm concerned and his name, face and reputation should be erased from our collective memory and all trace of him eradicated forever.
Mary,
You, my dear, have said it so well!!!!!
Well that does NOTHING then. and animal abuse goes on and on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Medusa
Well what would you do, since you brought up the subject to start with???Quote:
Originally Posted by redog
It seems the majority here, wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. IMO - Vick couldn't explain away his actions, if he lived to be 150. Unfortunately, he is just one lousy drop in a sea of sickos. He just happened to be rich and famous when he got caught, otherwise his actions would have gone unnoticed, and he would still be doing the same horrible things that he did before.
So would you like to go one on one with him, to see what makes him tick??? What would you ask him???
Not by Michael Vick it wouldn't! Why should we have to indulge these people and listen to their lame excuses about their conduct? There was no remorse in his explanation, just a big fat grin on his face. We know what abuse does and IF he experienced any in his own life, then there are places that he can go to get help rather than to turn his rage on helpless, defenseless animals. I'm a forgiving person by nature but Vick needs forgiveness from the victims. And they can't give it b/c they're DEAD. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by redog
I have gone one on one with many dogfighters. not by choice but by my desire to eraticate abusers. I have seen the mess and cleaned it up. what have you done besides what your doing here?Quote:
Originally Posted by pomtzu
It is extremely difficult for anyone besides dogmen to justify dogfighting. Law enforcement officials that penetrate the clandestine subculture are routinely sickened by the macabre blood sport. American culture has criminalized dogfighting and stigmatizes those deviant enough to engage in it. Our collective American consciousness is repulsed by dog-fighting with much the same disdain that we feel for child molesters. One study, published in Society and Animals, attempted offer a rare glimpse into the psyche of the prototypical dogman and to rationalize the behavior that to the rest of us is incontrovertibly perverse. According to the study, there are five major techniques that dogmen employ to justify dogfighting: (1) denial of the victim; (2) denial of responsibility; (3) denial of injury; (4) appeal to higher loyalties; and (5) condemnation of the condemners. (1) Denial of the Victim: Most dogmen adamantly deny that the dogs are victimized by the culture of dogfighting. The dogs are glorified as fighting machines with insatiable blood-lust.Quote:
Originally Posted by Medusa
Ok. So? It seems to me that you've proven our point. They DENY and any further discussion w/them, IMO, is pointless. Let 'em deny it all in prison where they belong and where they can't abuse and kill other helpless animals. Stricter laws and enforcement of those laws and less coddling of celebrities and athletes will help to eradicate abuse, not trying to learn from someone who denies any wrongdoing in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by redog
Well then maybe you'd like to tell us here what exactly it is that you've done to "clean up the mess" other than make an open ended remark. I've not seen any news stories that dog fighting has been eradicated unless I've missed something.Quote:
Originally Posted by redog
Dogfighters often see themselves as a misunderstood group, victims of cultural genocide. “Dogfighting is a part of this culture. You don't change culture. It dies but it does not change. Dogfighting, cockfighting, fishing, hunting are all parts of our heritage. We have seen many intruders try to change us, it's always outsiders...but we are just ordinary folk who are different in some ways.
you see people of pet talk, Ive asked all the questions before. I just want to see how ya'll work it here. every one has a cute pet here that lives in a nice warm house, gets good food and vet care. you are less than 10 percent of animal owners
Well what did you do to clean it up? Do you mean that the dog fighters gave up their evil ways because of what you said or did???Quote:
Originally Posted by redog
You started the thread, asking what people would ask Sick Vick. Normally here, people start a thread - tell what they would do or give an opinion on a certain issue - and then ask for input from other posters. You seem to be working backwards. :(
Medusa
this is not going to go away in our lifetime and your not even going to see a dent taken out of it anytime soon. you can sit here and say whatever you want about it but its not doing anything to help. do you want me to post some of my pics of dogs all duct taped up for bait? or the looks on the dogs faces right before theyre put down cuz they had their throats torn out?
Ill tell you what, Ill take care of it with out you. you just take care of what you have and Ill be ok with it
I asked a question to see if there was anyone here with any input. I also asked to put all hatred and discust aside. but you didnt seem to get that part eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by pomtzu
I would talk with Michael Vick. I am capable of holding my temper in check for the sake of a greater good. I would ask him what he thinks can be done to change the "culture" of dog fighting. If he used the claim that "it's just part of our culture," I'd remind him that slavery used to be part of the culture here, too - and we changed that! That child labor used to be part of culture - and we changed that. Just because something is 'part of our culture' does not mean it is good and should be protected. I would also ask him how he initially got into it, and if he has since done any work in the neighborhood he grew up in, in the city he started in, to change and eradicate dog fighting, and if not, I would ask why.
Any opportunity to combat evil is worth it, in my mind.
Well - you still can't seem to tell us what you did to clean it up. I didn't realize it was cleaned up. :confused:
I'll not continue this since it is getting confrontational. For some reason, there has been an influx of folks from other forums lately, that have come here for the purpose of stirring things up.
I won't be suckered into a situation/argument/debate by these individuals, since no matter what any of the long time members here say, they are wrong. :mad:
I don't need to see pix of what I already know exists. And b/c I see no value in talking w/Vick doesn't mean that I'm complacent either. You seem to like to boast about what you've done but you aren't specific about what it is. I think you like to blow your own horn. Showing pix means nothing. You asked for opinions, you got 'em. If you don't like those opinions, oh well. To denigrate others b/c they aren't in the trenches as you claim to be tells me that you're a legend in your own mind. You don't know anything about me or others that have posted here on PT and your comments are uncalled for and unacceptable. We have as much compassion as you do; we just don't brag that we're out there "taking care of it". Those who talk the most usually do the least. Those who talk the least usually do the most. As for me, I think I'll take the high road and leave this discussion since it hasn't led anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by redog
HOLY COW! Karen you are awesome! thanks for answering my question. I find that alot of people beat around the bush or let their anger or lack of knowledge [ignorance] shine thru when confronted with certain issues. education is the key. but some refuse to get involved and choose to be negative. they wont ever make a difference so I have no use for them. if your not part of the solution then you are part of the problemQuote:
Originally Posted by Karen
good thank you for not responding anymore cause you say nothing and make all kinds of words. and who says because your a long time member means you know anything at all. be quiet and love your dogs. ignorance is bliss and Im not here to talk to ignorant people who need someone to talk too! get a life pomtzuQuote:
Originally Posted by pomtzu
‘Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat’.”
:rolleyes:
I had a feeling, that with this 2nd thread about Vick, it would end up getting ugly.
Where did all these rabid Pit Bull folks come from, and why?
I just don't get it. Why come here and pi$$ off people?
They're not rabid, I promise! And they came from various places, one invited by a long term Pet Talker.
I have *thumped* both parties, and hope it won't happen again!
Haha hey sasvermont! howsit goin? I didnt realize you guys had a rush of rabid pitbull folks showing up here. I hate when that happens. Im more of the abandon kitty and feed the pigeons kind of guy. I just stumbled in on accident and started reading. and the previous vick thread was interesting but of course I wanted yall's input on something else. Im not looking for trouble Im just looking for well thought out, honest input from pet people.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasvermont
Excellent point by the way! see we're actually kinda on the same pageQuote:
Originally Posted by Medusa
Most people give credit where credit is due. I think Teddy would have.Quote:
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat’.”
__________________
It is from our late President Theodore Roosevelt.
redog::::Let me join with some of the others here. How about you telling us what you think Vick can teach us about eradicating animal abuse? I am really interested in hearing your answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by redog
First, you ask a question, and, suddenly, those that answer with an answer you don't like is on trial?? We choose not to associate with Vick so we are useless in the fight to stop animal abuse?? Really?? How so?
Suppose we find Vick a disgusting human being and prefer not to be in his presence? Suppose we think we're not the proper person to confront Vick personally? Does this make us a lesser person in this fight? I don't believe Michael Vick is the answer to end animal abuse. I see other ways to fight it. Because I choose to never get close enough to this scumbag to ask a question, that certainly doesn't make me lax in wanting animal abuse abolished. It's a whole lot bigger than Michael Vick.
You're rather bold on this board for a person that has 34 posts aren't you? You asked for people's answers and that's what you're getting. Are you in charge of a rule book that governs what people can and can not say in answering a posted question? There is no need in getting nasty to anyone that candidly answers your question.
NEWS FLASH: Who can put aside anger and disgust when it comes to Michael Vick? Not me. He is the epitome of anger and disgust in my book.
Are you a police officer? Animal control officer? How did you get in a position to go one on one with so many dogfighters? Please give us some history.Quote:
Originally Posted by redog
I think you should take a step or two back, take a deep breath and apologize for your rude, inappropriate remarks.Quote:
Originally Posted by redog
No Im sorry Grace. I like pomtzu but I dont owe her a thing.
And Daisy and Delilah, thanks for asking! I am a part of a taskforce with the health dept as well as a liscenced rescue. and as for this thread, only 3 posters left their hate and discust at the door when they posted. I know theres more than that in here.
by all means folks, if you have nothing to add and only want to give me crap then leave this thread alone. make your own thread about me where you can say whatever you want
Let us give this thread a rest. All that needs to be said has been.
Karen can you close it then? I dont want to it to continue to show folks true colors
and thanks for your excellent post