fav drink.

[Cataholic]

I heard a very interesting comment this am, while attending a seminar on Ethics, Professionalism and Substance Abuse. As a lawyer, we are required, like many professions, to obtain 'credits' for our licensing requirements. Now, this is not the entire commentary...and, I may get some of it backwards, but, I found it fascinating.

It was the section on substance abuse...which is very high with doctors and lawyers. First, the guy was saying...it isn't that the JOB causes alcoholicism..since that is heredity/genetics at work, but, that alcoholics tend to go towards that type of advanced degree- either cause they feel way better than others (like me, right Kay?), or worthless. So, they think, 'OK, let me get **another** degree' or 'let me be my own boss'....and they germinate towards that type of profession. The guy was saying that if you put 100 people in a room, and encourage them to use coke(or crack), chances are, in time, 80% would become addicted to the substance. BUT, if you put 100 in a room, and encouraged drinking, over time, only 6-7 PEOPLE (well, I guess that is %, too, isn't it?) would become alcoholics. It isn't the drink/bottle that makes alcoholics, but genetics. He said a couple meeting at AA, marrying, and having kids, have just blessed that child with a 84% chance of becoming an alcoholic. WOW!

Now, the other interesting thing he said was the reason alcoholism is so rampant in American society-esp. native Americans, is that alcohol is so very new to us, and we haven't had enough time (as in generations) to weed it out. Alcoholics die early, have poor relationship skills....choosing the bottle over the woman/man, so no offspring...so, no passed on genetics, etc.

He said if you look at some of the older ethnic groups, asians, middle easterners (and some others, but, I forgot who he said), alcohol has been around forever..but, there has been enough time to weed it out. That, really, there is some 'truth' to the irish being drunks (what we hear in folklore)...cause it is still new to them....this is especially evident in native americans..where alcohol has only been around for 500 years or so.

Now, I don't know if any of this is true. Maybe the presenter was just making it up- he was a lawyer, after all. But, isn't it an interesting point of view?

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by Cataholic
First, the guy was saying...it isn't that the JOB causes alcoholicism..since that is heredity/genetics at work, but, that alcoholics tend to go towards that type of advanced degree- either cause they feel way better than others (like me, right Kay?)

Huh??

[trayi52]

Thats what I say. Huh??

[2kitties]

I think it is a really interesting theory. And sounds like a credible one too.

[babolaypo65]

Now, the other interesting thing he said was the reason alcoholism is so rampant in American society-esp. native Americans, is that alcohol is so very new to us, and we haven't had enough time (as in generations) to weed it out. Alcoholics die early, have poor relationship skills....choosing the bottle over the woman/man, so no offspring...so, no passed on genetics, etc

Keep in mind though, that Native Americans metabolize sugar (and the sugar in alcohol) VERY differently than the average caucasian. So part of the high incidence of alcoholism among NA communities is related to that....

[tatsxxx11]

I have absolutely no tolerance for people who abuse alcohol or drugs at the expense of another. I have seen two many people wheeled into the ER or recovery room, d.o.a., fatalities of someone else's "i*n*d*e*s*c*r*e*s*t*i*o*n. The pathetic irony of it all is that it's usually the drunk driver who survives. If someone chooses to kill themselves, slowly or swiftly, through his/her over indulgence in alcohol or drugs, well, I suppose that is their choice. However, I wonder if they realize that in so doing, they also destroy many other lives along the way, if not in the physical sense, then surely emotionally. That's the reason Alanon was created. Alocholism destroyed my childhood.

2 Kitties...you wrote...

I think the US does itself a disservice on so many issues. We don't adequatly educate teens about sex, we don't provide birth control options, we set these silly drinking ages, we don't legalize a harmless smoking substance, etc. If you look at European countries who have their heads out of their ***es and understand we don't need to apply puritan laws to the masses, you'll see their drinking/drug related deaths and their teen pregnancy rates are much much lower than the US. I think the moral majority in the US is a wonderful thing, until teens suffer because of it.

I agree with you to a point, but a specious arguement none the less. Perhaps, in our desire, misguided (???) efforts to protect our children from the harmful and untoward ramifications of sex, alcohol, etc we have created a culture which makes the "forbidden fruit" all the more tempting and ultimately "dangerous."

However, once must question then where does the concept of personal accountabilty come into play??? Therein lies the quandry. You don't want "puritan laws" to set parmeters within which our citizens must function? Well then I challenge both youth and adults to set responsible and ethical guidelines of their own. Perhaps parents have fallen short in their role in this respect. If you don't want "Mommy," or the government, or "big brother" mandating accepatable paradigms of behavior, then have the common sense to set your own and abide by them.

You reference "Eurpoean" nations who "have their heads out of their ***es." Well, I'm of Eurpoean descent, 1st generation and have in the past and still visit my family in Norway and Sweden often. You know, I really don't know what the legal "drinking age" is there. But, I can tell you this. The legal definition of intoxication is far lower than ours though the rate of alcoholism is higher, as it is in many European countries. AND, if you are caught driving while drunk, the penalties far swifter and more severe, I assure you! There, the kids and adults, if planning a night out drinking or whatever, DO NOT DRIVE! They take the bus, the train or walk or drive with someone not drinking or party at home. Yes, the fatality rate of deaths by drunk drivers is much lower than that of the U.S. but NOT because of the absence of "head of their ***es," puritan law. If someone has a real problem with substance abuse (as I acknowledge it is an illness) then it is incumbant upon THEM to pull THEIR heads out of THEIR ***es and get help. That's what "sick" people do; seek help for an illness.

For the rest of us, as the Greeks in their wisdom so simply yet so exquisitely put it..."Everything in moderation." That is one precept that has guided my life decisions and served me well. And use some common sense and apply some personal accountablity. We as individuals don't exist in a vacuum and our individual actions can and do have far reaching effects, both positive and negative.

[2kitties]

Tatsxxx1, I agree with you that personal accountability must come into play. Most definitely. My point, I suppose, stems from the attitude our schools and many parents take towards sex and alcohol. It is so forbidden and never discussed, it becomes attractive. And, in turn, becomes deadly. Kids don't understand drinking in moderation because they're in such a hurry to go out and drink as much as they can while they have an opportunity. And they are out having rediculously risky sex because they aren't taught or given the proper precautions. So I guess I don't see how it is completely specious, but, like all things, it will have exception.


I used the term "heads in their ***es" because that is precisely what comes to mind. I listened just the other day to a woman who talked on and on about how wonderful her teenage daughter had become and she knew for a fact she'd never smoke, drink or have premarital sex because they had told her it was all wrong. All I could think of was that her head was somewhere other than upon her shoulders.

[lizbud]

Originally posted by Cataholic
I heard a very interesting comment this am, while attending a seminar on Ethics, Professionalism and Substance Abuse. As a lawyer, we are required, like many professions, to obtain 'credits' for our licensing requirements. Now, this is not the entire commentary...and, I may get some of it backwards, but, I found it fascinating.


He said if you look at some of the older ethnic groups, asians, middle easterners (and some others, but, I forgot who he said), alcohol has been around forever..but, there has been enough time to weed it out. That, really, there is some 'truth' to the irish being drunks (what we hear in folklore)...cause it is still new to them....this is especially evident in native americans..where alcohol has only been around for 500 years or so.

Now, I don't know if any of this is true. Maybe the presenter was just making it up- he was a lawyer, after all. But, isn't it an interesting point of view?

I think it's interesting, but an incorrect conclusion.
Oh, btw, my daughter practices Law in Illinois now, but had to
complete 30 minutes class time, (right 30 min.) to complete her
Indiana requirements to practice here.

As for the Irish not being used to spirits, check this out;

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~bunrattywi...istorymead.htm


I believe it's an adults individual's duty to be responsible for their own choices. Stressing the word adult.

[trayi52]

2k I want to be the kind of mother that my daughter can talk to, and be able to tell me anything. People may disapprove of the way I handle my daughter, she is 18 now by the way. I always stressed that I wanted her to talk to me about everything, and I am not one of those parents that says no my daughter would never do "that". I am lucky enough to know that she does talk to me about just about everything, including sex. I have learned you don't get angry and start yelling at them, that does nothing but turn them off, and then how do you try to point them in the right direction if they have stopped listening. Always be ready to listen to your teenager without yelling. It works so great.

Lin has told me a lot of the things she does. I am not saying she doesn't keep secrets from me, I know she does.

I don't want to be one of those people that ends up in the er, waiting to find out if my child is dead or alive. Thats why I would rather she not sneak around behind my back to drink. She knows this.

I have raised 2 other children that are now living out on their own, and I tell them the same thing, never, never yell at your child for telling you the truth. Be there for them, I always told them, I may not approve of what you do, and may even lecture a little, but I will never yell.

Willie

[Karen]

There is SOME proven connection between genetics and alcoholism, but it is not impossible for a person with "non-addictive" genes. Also, it is not necessarily true that a child with "alcoholic" genes will become an alcoholic. Many things factor into alcoholism. An alcoholic can have any genetic heritage, and just about any background. As for stereotypical "drunks" by occupation, remember, I went to art school. The "mind-altered (drunk or high) artist" is a truism.

Just for the record, I have known non-obnoxious people who became very obnoxious when drunk. I know people who are "recovering alcoholics," a couple "active" alcoholics, and people raised by alcoholics.

I have always been turned off by people bragging about how much they drank, how drunk or stoned they were.

There are so many lovely non-alcoholic drinks to discuss, some of my favorites are Chai tea (of many sorts) and hot chocolate in cold weather.

[catland]

This past Friday I had the opportunity to drink Crown Royal Special Reserve. I was visiting my brother in Texas who got married on Saturday.

It was very smooth and nice.

That said - I do have alcoholics on both sides of my family and I have seen it destroy people. However, as a country we learned that prohibition didn't work. I think that education is the best way (along with very strict drinking and driving laws) to keep people from getting out of control.

[carole]

Karen you raise some good points in your thread, I want everyone to know that Alcoholism is a disease like any other, and it is genetic, infact the child of an alcoholic parent is at a much greater risk, however that does not necessarily mean he/she will become one.

I strongly believe you can still become dependant on alcohol, as with any other addiction, so genes donot always play a part in it, I know this may sound a little contradictory, but I hope you can understand where I am coming with this one.

For example my mother had an alcoholic father, she choose never ever to touch the stuff, and never has, however had she drank, would she be an alcoholic? who know's?, however her fathers drinking was part of a more sinister hereditary disease,not known about at the time.

I know most people depise Alcoholics, mainly because of the pain and suffering and disruption they cause to their families,and the innocent lives they take, I have no time for drunk driver's myself and say throw the book at them, however it is something they cannot control, unless they have help and even then its not always helpful, there is no cure, only abstinance for life, and like any other addiction that is not always easy.

Being bitter and angry all my life, would only hurt myself in the end, I still don't like what alcohol does to people, and what it did to my life and my son's, but one has to move on., and be at peace with one self.

I have been on the other end, the one suffering because of Alcoholism, I have been through programmes with my ex-partner, I have seen him on anti-buse a drug, that if you drink you become so sick you need to be hospitalised, I have had all the counseling, and although it was a terrible time in my life, I can still feel for him and how this awful drug affected him, to this day I often wander if he is free of this infliction.

I have had to wonder if my son has inherited this gene, or was he just going throught that faze of drinking binges like all other young people, I have had my serious doubts, however I am relieved to say, my son hardly drinks now, just on occasions, and he does still drink a little too much, but no more than any of his other friends, and he does NOT drink and drive.

[micki76]

I am a social drinker and have several alcoholics in my family. Is it genetic or maybe learned behavior to an extent? For example, I've noticed that on my mother's side of the family the children of her 10 siblings who were alcoholics tend to be the parents of the next generation of alcoholics. And so on and so on. My mother refused to even touch alcohol because she was afraid of what might happen to her and never drank a drop her entire life. I only a social drinker, though (not bragging) I can handle a lot more alcohol than most other women and a lot of men that I know. My cousin who was raised the same way is identical to me.

What I'm basically saying is that it seems to be genetic and learned behavior , too. I have the predisposition to become an alcoholic and if it's a behavior that I'm exposed to, and is part of my rearing, I am even more likely to abuse it.

Hmmm.... never thought this much about it before.

My favorite drinks are Sex on the Beach and Pina Colada.

[Lady's Human]

Personal Favorite drink is Irish Coffee. My apologies to my teetotaling sister. I think it has to go with the line of work.

[Rio and Me]

I start the evening of with vodka and orange, go on to shots (with friends) aftershock (aniseed) is the best shot drink, then slow down with alcopops.
I drank alcohol under age, my parents knew, they were fine with it as long as i was sensible, (which i was).
the legal age to drink here is 18, drive 17, sex 16, vote 18 etc.
I'm the only one who can "drive"/own a car, so most of the time i'm sobber and drive my mates around, I dont have a problem with that because i dont need alcohol to have fun, i just like it, then when we got home they all crashed out and i had my vodka and orange in front of a good film, he he he
Ky and Rio