Stoned to death

[Lady's Human]

So, the previous government of Iraq were perfect muslims?


Sorry, too much propaganda. The ISI teaches you well.

[popcornbird]

PCB: Talmudic law and Christian law are not the same thing.

You're quoting one and calling it the other.

John 8:7


So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

The last person I know who had no sin was strung up on a cross about 2000 years ago.

Actually, I am not quoting one and calling it the other. As far as I'm concerned, if you believe in the New Testament, you should believe in the laws of the Old Testament. Didn't Jesus say this?:

Matthew 5:17-18 (NKJV) "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

As far as I'm concerned, the Law in the Old Testament is pretty severe, and Jesus, in the New Testament, is saying that he did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.

For the sake of argument, even IF you do not believe that, then why are you so quick to condemn Islamic rulings, while completely ignoring Jewish ones?? Do you not see any harsh punishments in the Jewish script?

Regardless, about what Sana is saying...

If any of you have been to any Muslim country, be it Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt, UAE, whatever...you would know that women covering is not enforced by law and there are tons of women out there who go out in the same way as you see women going out here. It is the media that makes you think every woman in the Middle East is forced to cover up, beaten if she doesn't, and as a Muslim who knows and has seen both the West and the East, I know that is nothing but a bunch of BS. I have relatives in Muslim countries who are more into fashion than the typical American girl, who don't cover at all, and have never been harmed. Women who cover do it by their own choice, as I do. Likewise, men are required by religious law to lower their gaze and not 'stare at' women. Just as covering is not enforced in most countries, lowering the gaze is not enforced in most countries. Religious men do it by their own choice, and yes, they do practice it. I know MANY men, that whenever a group of girls pass in front of them, they look down and avoid staring.

Of course there are good and bad people everywhere, in every culture, and there are some men who are cruel and beat their women, but it is by no means the norm, and as far as I'm concerned, I cannot say I personally know of even one 'abusive/beating' husband. I grew up with a Muslim father who has done nothing but loved us and cared for us our whole lives, played games with us, laughed with us. He is a loving and devoted husband to my mother, and has been for over 35 years. I have a Muslim husband who loves me more than anything and in our nearly 5 years of marriage, has never even scolded me in anger. Perhaps to your surprise, more women in the US convert to Islam than men. When asked why, they say they love how women are respected in the religion. Something to ponder over. A good friend of my husband who became a Muslim said he did so after researching the religion...but what lured him into it was witnessing several Muslim guys walking with their sister at a grocery store, and making sure she didn't have the burden of carrying anything.

Believe your stereotypes as much as you want. Think whatever you want. At the end of the day, you are wrong when you think wrong of others with no basis for your judgement other than the media. I have a dear friend who is a lawyer that has dealt with many cases of domestic abuse (here in the US). She has told me that some cases she comes across are so terrible she comes home in tears, wondering how anyone can do that to their own family. Again, here in the US. Domestic abuse happens everywhere. It is sad. It is terrible. It should never happen. But it happens everywhere, in the East, in the West...everywhere. There will always be some bad people out there, sadly.

Caseysmom, I don't need to trust you when you say there are modest people here. I know there are, and have many friends who are quite modest, and are not Muslim...I'm a Californian, as you are, and I know there are both modest and not so modest people here. I wasn't truely 'criticizing' the 'other side', but I was trying to show how just as they think they can judge others, others might be judging them in the same way for the things they do, and the way they dress.

[Bonny]

popcornbird, Thank you for sharing your culture. You come from a loving family. I have some questions? You have your religion Islam & then their is your culture. If a man of Islam walked by a women of another culture would he lower his eyes or look away? Do women also have to lower their eyes & look away when they see an Islamic a man or men or men of another culture? If that is the case how do you get to meet someone of the opposite sex? Are marriages prearranged by family & is that part of the Islamic religion or culture or both if so. Do the men, women, & children get to worship in the same area in a Mosque? Do you & can you marry outside your religion Islam if you should wish to? Are the men the head of the household like bringing home the wages, or can it be shared where the wife works also? Are there restrictions on careers for men or women that would interfere with the Islamic religion? All these questions but like you said what we hear is what the media puts out there.

[Lady's Human]

PCB, with all due respect, yes, you are.

The New Testament is built on the foundation of the Old Testament, but does not require the Christians convert to Judaism to be Christian.

You cannot quote selected passages of scripture out of context and still get the same meaning. We could debate for ages about this, but I've never seen a church with two sets of dishes to cook a dinner with, and have never seen a church where a ham dinner was out of place.

Tell ya what, I won't quote the Koran, due to contextual issues, you don't quote the bible to me. It's not going to get you anywhere, as for every verse that SEEMS to demand the Old Testament law be followed, I can come up with at least one that doesn't demand it.

As to Muslim countries not requiring females dress a certain way by law? WRONG!

The US has run into many, many diplomatic issues because of US Military uniforms and the fact that we make no distinction between men and women in the service.

[RICHARD]

The US has run into many, many diplomatic issues because of US Military uniforms and the fact that we make no distinction between men and women in the service.

I too fear a woman trained to shoot better than I do.


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Stoned to death, no, but one time I was soooo drunk? I thought I was going to die.

------------

What is it with the Wild and Crazy Sharia Law?

10 lashes and a fine for wearing pants? Does that go on a woman's permanent record.

------------

Holy Mole,

That's one of the Mexican Patron Saints-


Beating up people for wearing pants.

You heard about the woman who was given 20 lashes?

She didn't listen the FIRST time.

[wombat2u2004]

Actually as I have seen men don't enforce. Men advice, as usually men are nice in Islam, they advice or tell the women that they have to do it. Islam says for women to dress that way so they have to and so women usually listen on the first time.

And if the women don't comply ?????
What happens then ????
For instance.......last week I seen a Muslim couple shopping.
She was dressed in a black robe with just a little slit for her eyes to look out of, and nowhere else was any skin to be seen, her husband on the other hand was dressed in shorts, T-shirt and sandals....he was obviously more comfortable than she was.
So tell me Sana, your point of view.......what would the husband do IF his wife decided not to wear that Burqua, and go shopping dressed in a pair of shorts, a T-shirt and a pair of sandals ????

[sana]

I don't know why the man was wearing that outfit maybe his wife was more Islamic and religious than him and if my husband ever wore that I'd leave him and go off to my mother's place and call him and tell him that SORRY if he keeps wearing that dress I am not going over to his house. I have a Muslim class fellow who's parents are muslims but not as Islamic as her. She wears Burqa and the covering veil but her mother doesn't. If women don't comply, some husbands tell them to and usually they listen and if women don't comply and nobody stops them, their parents would be caught in the Hereafter for not telling her daughter the right ways. And if her parents did tell and she didn't listen, on the Last Day, she would be caught for not wearing the Burqa and veil.
A little thing to tell you. There is a fact that in animal's males are beautiful than the females and in humans women are beautiful than the males, so God said that He made women prettier than the men so they should hide their beauty like as if their beauty is a valuable and priceless gem. Anybody would want to keep their beautiful gem safe so a woman's beauty is a gem that she should hide and save. That is why Burqa was made compulsory on women. Some people say that covering face is compulsory and some say no it isn't. Some women choose to cover their face while the other, they just cover their head and body.

[Lady's Human]

You do realize that the Hajib and the Burqa are both relics of cultures which predate Islam by hundreds of years?

[sana]

I don't understand what you mean. Could you please explain

[Lady's Human]

The Burqa predates Mohammed by hundreds if not thousands of years. It was adopted by Islam, not created for Islam.

[Lady's Human]

By the way, nice comparison that really shows how much respect there is for women in your culture, Sana.

A gem is an inanimate object put on display.

My wife is an intelligent being, with her own thoughts and motivations.

I don't worry about someone wanting to steal her, because we trust each other. I can understand the Burqa in a culture where men are not expected to show any self control, but this is the 21st century, not the 6th.

[wombat2u2004]

I don't know why the man was wearing that outfit maybe his wife was more Islamic and religious than him and if my husband ever wore that I'd leave him and go off to my mother's place and call him and tell him that SORRY if he keeps wearing that dress I am not going over to his house. I have a Muslim class fellow who's parents are muslims but not as Islamic as her. She wears Burqa and the covering veil but her mother doesn't. If women don't comply, some husbands tell them to and usually they listen and if women don't comply and nobody stops them, their parents would be caught in the Hereafter for not telling her daughter the right ways. And if her parents did tell and she didn't listen, on the Last Day, she would be caught for not wearing the Burqa and veil.
A little thing to tell you. There is a fact that in animal's males are beautiful than the females and in humans women are beautiful than the males, so God said that He made women prettier than the men so they should hide their beauty like as if their beauty is a valuable and priceless gem. Anybody would want to keep their beautiful gem safe so a woman's beauty is a gem that she should hide and save. That is why Burqa was made compulsory on women. Some people say that covering face is compulsory and some say no it isn't. Some women choose to cover their face while the other, they just cover their head and body.

I'm confused Sana. You speak of all of this freedom of dress that you all have but.......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgXgpngHf60

[wombat2u2004]

Sana.......can I also have your excuse....sorry....your thoughts on this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVIop...eature=related

[sana]

By the way, nice comparison that really shows how much respect there is for women in your culture, Sana.

A gem is an inanimate object put on display.

My wife is an intelligent being, with her own thoughts and motivations.

I don't worry about someone wanting to steal her, because we trust each other. I can understand the Burqa in a culture where men are not expected to show any self control, but this is the 21st century, not the 6th.

Hey, women in Islam don't mind wearing this Burqa and as God says, Islam will never end. That is why many women don't leave Burqa because they knoe that the Last Prophet told them to wear Burqa cover their bodies and men are to wear clothes which are above the ankles and below the knees. Men have certain types of clothes to wear too. Not only women. I am a girl so I mostly know about girls dresses. I know some stuff about men's clothes. The ankle above pants and knee below and that they shouldn't wear silk. That's a little I know.

[Lady's Human]

WOmen in Islam don't mind wearing Burqas?

Then why, praytell, all the uproar in Saudi Arabia when US forces were stationed there? Part of it was Saudi women complaining that they should be able to dress as they wanted.

It's not freewill when the penalty for not wearing a Burqa is caning, stoning, or some other Sharia law penalty.

Again, it's the 21st century, not the 6th. Time to move on past barbarism.