Court Fight waged over brain damaged moms tripplets

[Lady's Human]

There's a fine line between honesty and cruelty, and you cross it routinely.

[caseysmom]

There's a fine line between honesty and cruelty, and you cross it routinely.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Asiel]

You are so correct. Because my mom was a concentration camp survior and lost her entire family in the war she certaintly knew the meaning of life and it's worth.
She never wanted to be one of those people who was kept alive by machines. She told me once there are worst things then death, I have never forgotten those words.
She was never bitter or mean but she did want her children to grab live by the horns and run with it, because you never know.
When she died she left a poem for my brother and I perhaps some of you know it.
Do not stand by my grave and cry I am not dead I did not die.
Even though her grave is not far from my home I take her advice and see her love in a butterfly or a flower growing.
I too have told my children don't stand by my bed if I am stricken by coma or illness, honor my love for you by being the best you can be and enjoy life to the fullest that is the greatest gift you can give me, being happy.
I had the sweetest most wonderful mom anyone can imagine, her wish for me was to always find happiness in life and that is what I do. My wacky sense of humor is part of that.
Sometimes I am very blunt about matters but I am honest. I will tell a person they look like s&*t in that dress if they ask and then help them find a dress they can feel truly pretty in instead of saying "oh you look great" and they don't.
If someone says does this outfit make me look fat? I will honestly say "yes it is because you need to lose some weight" at first they are kind of dumb struck because usually people aren't that honest but then after a few minutes they look at me and say something to the effect, "I know I am fat, I need help losing weight"
Sometimes people do get upset with my honesty but it is only because they know it is true often, not always of course but often I just blurt out what everyone is thinking. It's just me being me.

We have friends who are concentration camp survivors and they don't look at life the way you do, so there goes that theory. They have raised 4 great compassionte caring children who would never abandon them in a sad situation like this one.
You think the kids will have nightmares because they see their precious mother in this state? And what about the crap they will be exposed to at the movies or on television....some of those would give the sanest person nightmares but I don't see kids turning away for fear of nightmares and I don't see parents forbidding them to watch this trash.
I truly feel sorry for you if you have the kind of children who would walk away and desert you if you became a "vegie salad" . You might think this is what you want now but if you were struck down like this poor woman I think you would change your mind, It's easy to say you wouldn't want your family to bother with you but until you walk in those shoes you have no idea how much you would yearn for your family.
Myself, I hope to have raised my kids to be compassionate enough not to abandon me if ever the day did come when I was in that state because I know I would treasure every precious moment they would be near me and I know they would feel my love for them.

[Cataholic]

]Sometimes I am very blunt about matters but I am honest. I will tell a person they look like s&*t in that dress if they ask and then help them find a dress they can feel truly pretty in instead of saying "oh you look great" and they don't.
If someone says does this outfit make me look fat? I will honestly say "yes it is because you need to lose some weight" at first they are kind of dumb struck because usually people aren't that honest but then after a few minutes they look at me and say something to the effect, "I know I am fat, I need help losing weight"
Sometimes people do get upset with my honesty but it is only because they know it is true often, not always of course but often I just blurt out what everyone is thinking. It's just me being me.

Well, you being you isn't very nice to read, many times.

I couldn't imagine telling anyone what you seemingly find no compuncture with. True has nothing to do with it.

Not too long ago, you posted some pictures of you and one of your kids. I would imagine had anyone posted what they truly thought, you would have been flabbergasted! I am not suggesting anyone thought anything about it. But, I bet the Mayor would have been on the horn so fast heads would have spun had anyone said, "you look like a sad, old woman in that picture". Hey- it is the "truth", right? Kind of like a free pass in life?

You sound mean, harsh, unloving and really, really unkind. I bet you are one lonely old woman, and you hide behind your tough veneer cause otherwise, the crying would never stop.

I am just being truthful.

[Marigold2]

You are certaintly entitled to your opinion. I do not take offense at all.
I usually don't. Your opinion of me is just that your opinion it does not impact my life at all or my thoughts.
I would not want my kids to sit by my bedside because I do love them so much and want them to get on with their lives and enjoy it to the fullest. If I am a so called veggie salad I really can't do much if anything for them, I can't be a mom or wife or friend any more and it's time for me to meet my maker.
I feel that expecting my kids to put their lives on hold for years is selfish, very unmom like in fact. Why should they miss out on life, what happens is unfair yes but my kids would be strong and healthy, have families of their own to look out for, love and enjoy everyday? Knowing my kids are happy is my first and most powerful need. If that is being selfish then I am guily as charged. I truly think differently then most. But again that is ok.
I look at it that way. I guess that is why people make living wills so they don't have to be hooked up to machines to keep their heart beating when their brain is gone.
Has no one here made a living will? Is that not the intent of a living will?
As for the picture of me, I don't know which one you are referring to.
I don't look old I know that for a fact and as for unhappy well I am not.
Sorry to disappoint you I thought I look kinda cute, hubby thinks so.

[pomtzu]

Marigold - as usual, you have twisted the issues at hand to suit yourself to avoid being put on the spot and responding with some intelligence. This thread is all about a brain damaged individual whose husband is keeping her children from her, and whose parents choose to spend their life caring for her at home, rather than shipping "veggie salad" off to a nursing home. This has nothing to do with concentration camps, nothing to do with how you would expect your children to respond if you were the brain damaged person, nothing to do with the fact that you consider yourself "cute", nothing to do with rude (honest as you claim) comments you make to people (and by your own admission), and on and on.......

I was interested to hear what you would do if the tables were turned, as I asked in post #21, where it be YOUR DAUGHTER that suffered a brain injury, and you are her mother. Do you call her "veggie salad" without knowing if she can hear you, do you put her in a nursing home and visit once a month or so, only to make sure that she is getting proper treatment, get on with your life and be happy and active and live life to the fullest??? Is that what you would do for YOUR DAUGHTER??? After all, the cards have been dealt, she's not really "living" anyway, so what does it matter anymore. What about the love you claim to have for her?? - did that somehow change when her life changed???

I guess you never did read anything about "the man who slept for 19 years", either. That should give a glimmer of hope to anyone that has a loved one with brain damage. So with your non-answer to my post and asking about what you would do if the issue was in your lap, then you really have answered loud and clear afterall!!!

Such a cold, impersonal, selfish person...............

[Marigold2]

Actually I did ask my daughter, you see we had this converstation years ago and then agin last night. I was interested if her opinion had changed and it hadn't.
She said "don't worry mom I will wait a while before they disconnect you.
We both laughted and hugged.
If she was as this women is. Yes I would put her in a nursing home so she could get 24 hour care. I don't expect you to understand , but you don't need to.
This is just how our family feels. It doens't have to be how you feel. I think everyone has degrees of how long we would wait for someone to get better. You have to just feel it in your heart and know it is right.
I don't want my kids to have to put their life on hold for me. It's that simple.
Doesn't make me a bad mom or bad person.
How long would I wait for my daughter, well if the Dr said there is no hope, no brain activity, no change of her getting better, no change of a somewhat normal life or a chance to enjoy said life then I would not let her suffer this way. I find that horrible. Just lying there and blinking that to me is worst then death, it is a constent suffering if she is even capable of understanding that. We don't know is she really does mean anything by the blinking.
You see I had to let my mom go, been through this. I know what it is to look into the eyes of the person who loves you more then anyone on this earth and to know you will lose them. It was best for her. Her neck was broken, they feared her brain was damaged to the point where she would not reconize her children. I just could not do that to her. To be possibley paralazed and not know the people who loved you most, no I could not do that to the most wonderful person I ever knew. She is with God, whole, healthy and my angel now. I did what I thought was best for her. I knew she would not want to live like that. She told me so herself. As I have told my kids.
I was not trying to get around the issue, I was trying to explain it in a way that could make sense, but sometims that is just not possible. Different people, different choices all trying to do what they feel is best that is the bottom line.
And quite frankly name calling is serving what purpose, do you get some kind of joy calling me a selfish person? I have not called you any names. My opinion is different then yours, so what, I have not been mean to you, how about looking at yourself?

[pomtzu]

How long would I wait for my daughter, well if the Dr said there is no hope, no brain activity, no change of her getting better, no change of a somewhat normal life or a chance to enjoy said life then I would not let her suffer this way.

Again - having no bran activity, and having brain damage, is 2 different things. You don't pull the plug if there is any brain activity, even tho she will have less than a "normal" life.
So you're saying that she would be off to the nursing home so that she is out of your way and not a burden to you, and you could go on your merry way and live life to the fullest???
And specifically what do you mean by "I would not let her suffer this way" if she is not bran dead, what would you do about it? Again - you can't pull the plug just because she is no longer "normal".

[Lady's Human]

And quite frankly name calling is serving what purpose, do you get some kind of joy calling me a selfish person? I have not called you any names. My opinion is different then yours, so what, I have not been mean to you, how about looking at yourself?

Look in the mirror.

How many people and groups have you called names?

TNTC (too numerous to count)

[Marigold2]

Well it would depend on her outlook, what the Dr's say, if she is capable of pain, joy, love? Can she see, hear, think, feel does she even know she is alive?
So many questions, so many choices. I would do what I thought was best I have said that all along. You might not agree with the choice I make but it is my soul and heart I have to live with.
I don't think a life of blinking is enough for me or those I love. There has to be more and if there isn't then let it end.

[Marigold2]

I did not insult the above person.
She got upset and insulted me. I don't take offense. I know she is angry and I know she did not mean it, just frustrated.
Not a big deal.

Look in the mirror.

How many people and groups have you called names?

TNTC (too numerous to count)

[Cataholic]

LH- what was that phrase you used at least one other time with respect to this poster, something about digging a hole? It is so appropriate here now. The back pedaling, the clarifying, the excusing. Kind of funny. Sad, but funny, too.

[Asiel]

Well it would depend on her outlook, what the Dr's say, if she is capable of pain, joy, love? Can she see, hear, think, feel does she even know she is alive?
So many questions, so many choices. I would do what I thought was best I have said that all along. You might not agree with the choice I make but it is my soul and heart I have to live with.
I don't think a life of blinking is enough for me or those I love. There has to be more and if there isn't then let it end.

Marigold, to say the least you baffle me completely. From what you say, you've elected yourself as the power to be. So many choices....but those choices are not yours to make Marigold.
Why do you think you are the one to decide when it should end? Fine, if you have a brain damaged child and you decide to just put that child in a home somewhere so that you can go on enjoying your life to the fullest, yes, that is your choice. Selfish yes, but your choice.
But it is not your choice to decide when it all ends...I thought that decision rested with the Creator , you know, The One who is supposed to be in charge of calling His children home to Him when He sees fit.
This country does not allow assisted suicide for a reason, if doctors don't want to interfere with God's will why do you feel you are in charge?

[Lady's Human]

LH- what was that phrase you used at least one other time with respect to this poster, something about digging a hole? It is so appropriate here now. The back pedaling, the clarifying, the excusing. Kind of funny. Sad, but funny, too.

When you find yourself in a hole, the first step should be put down the shovel?

[pomtzu]

Marigold, to say the least you baffle me completely. From what you say, you've elected yourself as the power to be. So many choices....but those choices are not yours to make Marigold.
Why do you think you are the one to decide when it should end? Fine, if you have a brain damaged child and you decide to just put that child in a home somewhere so that you can go on enjoying your life to the fullest, yes, that is your choice. Selfish yes, but your choice.
But it is not your choice to decide when it all ends...I thought that decision rested with the Creator , you know, The One who is supposed to be in charge of calling His children home to Him when He sees fit.
This country does not allow assisted suicide for a reason, if doctors don't want to interfere with God's will why do you feel you are in charge?

Thank you for this post, Asiel. This is exactly my point - and an issue that Marigold chooses not to answer. So be it............

Marigold, I will pursue this no more, since it's obviously a waste of time. Sorry if I offended you by my remarks about you, but I call it like I see it.

I hope that you will never have a bump in the road - big or small - that will change your lifestyle and make you think of another person's comfort and well being, rather than placing yourself at the top of the list. They say that God never gives us more than we can handle, so perhaps you will be among those that are never dealt a bad hand.