Screaming dad

[cassiesmom]

I saw a family with 4 kids. Mom, Dad and three boys. One boy was just being a stinker he was about seven, the dad grabbed him by the face and dragged him away.

I don't think it is okay for an adult to drag a 7 year old by the face under any circumstances. Except, maybe, his clothes are on fire.

And Wom, I impose my expectations on others every time I go out in public, and others place expectations on me. One of those is appropriate behavior. Subjecting one's child to such "discipline" in a public place far exceeds the boundaries of appropriate behavior for me. Even if you're having a bad day, as Moosmom said, that's still no excuse for the father to act the way he did. I might have said something like hey, take it easy to the father but I'm with Marigold-- I'm not able to stand by silently and witness something like this.

[Medusa]

And Wom, I impose my expectations on others every time I go out in public, and others place expectations on me. One of those is appropriate behavior.

Excellent point!

[wombat2u2004]

I don't think it is okay for an adult to drag a 7 year old by the face under any circumstances. Except, maybe, his clothes are on fire.

And Wom, I impose my expectations on others every time I go out in public, and others place expectations on me. One of those is appropriate behavior. Subjecting one's child to such "discipline" in a public place far exceeds the boundaries of appropriate behavior for me. Even if you're having a bad day, as Moosmom said, that's still no excuse for the father to act the way he did. I might have said something like hey, take it easy to the father but I'm with Marigold-- I'm not able to stand by silently and witness something like this.

No, by doing this you are trying to influence others to your standards. I'm with LH on this. You have no idea what the reasons were for that fathers reactions.
For a start, it is illegal to do what you condone. It is not illegal for someone to chastise their child.
You are viewing this as some sort of child abuse, whereas it may have simply been a discipline lesson. And it may have been the only way the father knows how to discipline his own child.

[Medusa]

it may have been the only way the father knows how to discipline his own child.

If that's the case, then he needs to take some serious classes in parenting, Wom. Discipline is acceptable and encouraged, whether in public or private. Grabbing a kid by the face? Come on now.

[wombat2u2004]

If that's the case, then he needs to take some serious classes in parenting, Wom. Discipline is acceptable and encouraged, whether in public or private. Grabbing a kid by the face? Come on now.

And what would he learn from his "Serious classes in parenting" ??
Someone elses interpretation of the right way to parent ???
Generalisations that are shoved down our throats daily by educated idiots who change their minds weekly on how to parent or anything else that suits their view on how others should live their lives ???
Hey, it's his business how he disciplines his own child, not anyone elses.

[Medusa]

And what would he learn from his "Serious classes in parenting" ??
Someone elses interpretation of the right way to parent ???
Generalisations that are shoved down our throats daily by educated idiots who change their minds weekly on how to parent or anything else that suits their view on how others should live their lives ???
Hey, it's his business how he disciplines his own child, not anyone elses.

I agree w/you to a point about it being his business on how he disciplines his kids. Disciplines. Not abuses. As for the parenting class, he may learn some self control himself. He can't very well teach his kid self control if he himself loses it. I think we've probably all lost control at some time but not to that degree. Ask yourself how you'd feel if someone, especially someone much bigger than you, grabbed your face and dragged you off. In public. I'd be humiliated and probably scared to death.

[Cataholic]

I would have said something, too. Abuse is abuse is abuse. No matter what excuse the adult might have had (a bad day, really?????), abuse is abuse is abuse. It should never be tolerated.

[wombat2u2004]

I agree w/you to a point about it being his business on how he disciplines his kids. Disciplines. Not abuses.

But your interpretation of abuse may not be the same as his.
After all, he is the childs father, and probably the kid was a real work of art. It's not as if the father picked the child up and started bashing him on the wall or something like that.
Being a bit heavy handed with some kids is sometimes the only answer.

[Medusa]

One of the most difficult lessons I've had to learn in life as an adult is to act and not react. The father reacted to his child's bad behavior rather than acting as an adult and calmly but firmly removing him from the scene until he calmed down. I do understand what you mean, though, Wom, about our interpretation of abuse. I got spanked as a child. Today that's considered abuse, though I don't see it that way. I do hope, however, that grabbing your kid's face is never acceptable "discipline".

[cassiesmom]

And it may have been the only way the father knows how to discipline his own child.

That's a really good point.

I was at the supermarket on Saturday and I heard a mom tell her child -- who was maybe 4(??)- "Thank you for not using your outside voice while we were in the store." I thought that was kind of a funny thing to say to a child, hard for him to understand, but maybe not. The store was super busy and very crowded. I like what Ikea in Schaumburg does-- they have a monitored play area within the store for kids. I wish the supermarket did.

[Cataholic]

That's a really good point.

So, if slapping my child across his face is the only thing I know to do when he sasses me, is that correct? What about if locking him in his closet was what MY parent did to me, should I do that to him? No. I should get professional help if the only way I know to treat my child is to abuse my child. It is up to YOU (the general you, not you you) to do better, to read, to learn, to talk, to listen. In fact, perhaps Marigold's comments to this man will be enough for him to re-think his ways. Not at the moment, but later, when he cools off.

I was at the supermarket on Saturday and I heard a mom tell her child -- who was maybe 4(??)- "Thank you for not using your outside voice while we were in the store." I thought that was kind of a funny thing to say to a child, hard for him to understand, but maybe not.

Actually, according to child rearing experts (of which I am not) this IS the right way to raise your child- with positive reinforcement for the RIGHT choices. Like dog training- reward the wanted behaviour, and ignore the unwanted behavior.

[cassiesmom]

So, if slapping my child across his face is the only thing I know to do when he sasses me, is that correct? What about if locking him in his closet was what MY parent did to me, should I do that to him? No. I should get professional help if the only way I know to treat my child is to abuse my child. It is up to YOU (the general you, not you you) to do better, to read, to learn, to talk, to listen. In fact, perhaps Marigold's comments to this man will be enough for him to re-think his ways. Not at the moment, but later, when he cools off.

That's what I was thinking. If I don't know what else to do, then I need to find a way to learn.

Actually, according to child rearing experts (of which I am not) this IS the right way to raise your child- with positive reinforcement for the RIGHT choices. Like dog training- reward the wanted behaviour, and ignore the unwanted behavior.

It just sounded confusing to me when she said it. But I was looking at my grocery list, trying to figure out what I still needed and where to find it, the store was crowded, and I heard her.

[wombat2u2004]

That's a really good point.

I was at the supermarket on Saturday and I heard a mom tell her child -- who was maybe 4(??)- "Thank you for not using your outside voice while we were in the store." I thought that was kind of a funny thing to say to a child, hard for him to understand, but maybe not. The store was super busy and very crowded. I like what Ikea in Schaumburg does-- they have a monitored play area within the store for kids. I wish the supermarket did.

I remember the "Ball Room" very well at Ikea. It's a great idea.
But I also remember once when my two girls were very young and were playing in it, and there was a boy bullying another little boy. The offending child was removed and his mother contacted to come get him. I can remember the mother saying to the child "Honey, you know you are not supposed to do that." Positive reinforcement ??? No way. If the child knows that whatever he chooses to do is only met with that from his mother, then he will simply do what he wants in future.
Any lesson learnt, would have been because someone actually kicked him out of that ballroom.....and NOT from his mother.
The punishment must fit the crime. It is simply the only way a child can learn a lesson. and the punishment must be meted out by the parent, no-one else.
And if you think that a "Honey, don't do that again" works better than a hard slap on the butt and a promise that there's no ball room unless ya get your act together, then yer all barking up the wrong tree.
And folks, I have PROOF of this. My own three girls are living PROOF of this.

[moosmom]

they have a monitored play area within the store for kids. I wish the supermarket did.

They did have one when I was growing up. At Motts Supermarket, it was the magazine rack!!!!

Because of the way I was raised, "spare the rod, spoil the child mentality", my daughter was never touched. I used positive reinforcement and rewards for good behavior as well. My daughter is now a beautiful, 35 year old woman about to be married to the love of her life, and becoming the stepmother to my beautiful step-grandson, Cody, who will be walking ME down the isle!!!!!

[Cataholic]

Positive reinforcement wins out over abuse any day. Sometimes, people simply don't have the necessary skill set to be a parent. And while not all children that were abused go on to abuse their own children, it is a higher percentage that do.