Don't touch me there?

[lizbud]

This just goes to show that if you instill enough fear in people you can make them do whatever you want

I agree. The Bush administration proved that for 8 long years.

I don't think this new method is the ONLY way to insure airline safety.
Send the TSA back to the drawing board to come up with something else.

[RICHARD]

I agree. The Bush administration proved that for 8 long years.

And to think we are only into it for two, so far.

----------------


Clockwork Creep - 10c.c.


"I'm a clockwork creep
And I can't get to sleep
They wind me up and let me go
And I can't unwind
Going out of my mind
My time is coming soon you know"

Tick a tick a time bomb

"I'm a jumbo jet
With a brand new set
Of passengers and bags and crew
I'll spread my wings -
Do a thousand things
To prove how good I am to you"

Tick a tick a time bomb

Meanwhile in the cargo of escargot
The temperature is rising
Advertising that our time is running
Down, down, down, down, down
Oh with just one minute to live
Oh, no you'll never get me up in one of these again
'Cos what goes up must come
Down, down, down, down, down
Down, down, down, down, down

Oh, the gravity of the situation
It's only my willpower
That keeps this thing in operation
But we're gonna crash that's for certain
The pilot is too busy flirtin'
And he ain't aware
That there's a bomb down there
And if he don't do something it's curtains

"Now just hold on,"
Said the little bomb,
"If you were just to hold my hands
Then time would stop
The plot would flop
And jumbo would be safe to land"

Tick a tick a time bomb

My landings are the envy
Of Sabena and Pan Am
From Chattanooga to Japan
I taxi through the airways -
What a swell little plane
What a fine little plane
What a great little plane
I am

"Hang on one sec
I'm a clockwork wreck
And though my fuse is burning slow
Must keep my date to detonate
Goodbye, ta ta, and cheerio

Tick a tick a time bomb
Tick a tick a time bomb

Tick a........."

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Let's see: touch my junk or maybe be blown to a million pieces? Sounds like a no brainer to me.

I don't give you the right to enjoy touching my junk however. hehehehehe

[sparks19]

Let's see: touch my junk or maybe be blown to a million pieces? Sounds like a no brainer to me.

I don't give you the right to enjoy touching my junk however. hehehehehe

It's more like "Touch my Junk and be just as likely to be blown to pieces when the terrorists figure out the way around this system which is pretty simple" They aren't keeping this new security under wraps. Everyone knows how they work and it's going to be pretty easy for the determined ones to find a way around it.

Like I said before... when they start sticking the bombs where the sun don't shine or swallowing one will we all be happy to submit to mandatory cavity searches?

[momoffuzzyfaces]

It's more like "Touch my Junk and be just as likely to be blown to pieces when the terrorists figure out the way around this system which is pretty simple" They aren't keeping this new security under wraps. Everyone knows how they work and it's going to be pretty easy for the determined ones to find a way around it.

Like I said before... when they start sticking the bombs where the sun don't shine or swallowing one will we all be happy to submit to mandatory cavity searches?

Guess it will depend on how much we want to arrive alive.

[RICHARD]

Let's see: touch my junk or maybe be blown to a million pieces? Sounds like a no brainer to me.

I don't give you the right to enjoy touching my junk however. hehehehehe

It only hurts for a little while?

----------------

ye multitudes!

Rise up and raise a fist towards the evil powers that use us at their leisure!!!


http://news.travel.aol.com/2010/11/1...Clink5%7C26568





----------------

Meanwhile?

In the cargo of escargot
the temperature is rising.......

http://news.travel.aol.com/2010/11/1...Clink6%7C26568



=================

Geo. Washington never had a horse explode under him?

[sparks19]

You are NEVER guaranteed to arrive alive anywhere you go. YOu can get the colonoscopy and the plane could still go down. A terrorist could be very skilled in hand to hand combat and take out the pilot. can't screen for that.

The plane could malfunction and go down.

You could drive your car and get in an accident.

The train could go off the tracks.... etc etc etc

you are NEVER guaranteed another day. Why give up your freedoms and your constitutional rights for that slim chance that something bad could happen especially considering this new system is quite easy to find a way to get around it.

We are so crippled by our fear that we are willing to give up anything for the illusion of safety

but rest assured you are NEVER going to be guaranteed that you will arrive alive.

if I'm afraid to fly... I simply won't fly (nice that I have the option not to fly). I won't make everyone else give up their rights for MY fear.

[Marigold2]

Sparks do you fly? Many people have to do so daily. And as I said before, if we could ask the 9.11 souls if they would mind these searches now I doubt any would.
There is a difference between being safe and being paranoid.
I would rather be stipped searched then blown up in a plane, you maybe not. Maybe the idea of being naked or searched is scarier for you.
But it is not about me or you, it's about ALL the innocent souls on the plane.

[sparks19]

I choose not to fly. I am AFRAID of flying so I don't do it (not afraid because of terrorists... just a fear of flying). I didn't used to be afraid of flying. Just developed randomly.

I am aware that many people don't get the choice to not fly so they don't get the choice to NOT be fondled and groped.

THIS is not keeping you safer. This isn't some top secret hush hush project. It's a scanner that sees your skin. Then it's a pat down. That's quite easy to get around.

This is only giving the illusion of safety.

You're right... it's not about you or me. it's about all the innocent people who are being violated and touched inappropriately under the guise of safety even though it's really NOT safer. It's not going to STOP the terrorists from trying to blow up planes.

man all they gotta do is place a bomb in the cargo or get a job with the TSA (easy enough to do.. even people with criminal backgrounds can work for the TSA) and voila.

I mean if I can come up with ways around it then surely the determined terrorists have many ways around it.

This is just a pacifier to shut people up and soothe them until they realize that it was just a pacifier and not a solution for their problem.

There were terrorist attacks and planes blown up LONG before 9/11 and since 9/11 how many planes have gone down to terrorist attacks? What is justifying this NEW extreme measure?

[Grace]

I agree. The Bush administration proved that for 8 long years.

I don't think this new method is the ONLY way to insure airline safety.
Send the TSA back to the drawing board to come up with something else.

The airlines are not required to use the TSA - they can come up with their own security procedures.

From a CNN interview with Isaac Yeffet, the former head of security for El Al and now an aviation security consultant in New York -

CNN: What needs to be done to improve the system?

Yeffet: It's mandatory that every passenger -- I don't care his religion or whatever he is -- every passenger has to be interviewed by security people who are qualified and well-trained, and are being tested all year long. I trained my guys and educated them, that every flight, for them, is the first flight. That every passenger is the first passenger. The fact that you had [safe flights] yesterday and last month means nothing. We are looking for the one who is coming to blow up our aircraft. If you do not look at each passenger, something is wrong with your system.

CNN: What is El Al's approach to airline security? How does it differ from what's being done in this country?

Yeffett: We must look at the qualifications of the candidate for security jobs. He must be educated. He must speak two languages. He must be trained for a long time, in classrooms. He must receive on-the-job training with a supervisor for weeks to make sure that the guy understands how to approach a passenger, how to convince him to cooperate with him, because the passenger is taking the flight and we are on the ground. The passengers have to understand that the security is doing it for their benefit.

We are constantly in touch with the Israeli intelligence to find out if there are any suspicious passengers among hundreds of passengers coming to take the flight -- by getting the list of passengers for each flight and comparing it with the suspicious list that we have. If one of the passengers is on the list, then we are waiting for him, he will not surprise us.

During the year, we did thousands of tests of our security guys around the world. It cost money, but once you save lives, it's worth all the money that the government gave us to have the right security system.

CNN: Let's say all the airlines instituted the system that you're talking about. So let's say I go to an airport for a flight to London. What should happen?

Yeffet: When you come to the check-in, normally you wait on line. While you wait on line, I want you to be with your luggage. You have to meet with me, the security guy. We tell you who we are. We ask for your passport, we ask for your ticket. We check your passport. We want to find which countries you visited. We start to ask questions, and based on your answers and the way you behave, we come to a conclusion about whether you are bona fide or not. That's what should happen.

CNN: Every passenger should be interviewed, on all flights?

Yeffet: Yes, 100 percent...

I want to interview you. It won't take too long if you're bona fide. We never had a delay.

Number two, I have heard so many times El Al is a small airline. We in America are big air carriers. Number one, we have over 400 airports around the country, why hasn't anyone from this government asked himself, let's take one airport out of 400 airports and try to implement El Al's system because their system proved they're the best of the best.

For the last 40 years, El Al did not have a single tragedy. And they came to attack us and to blow up our aircraft, but we knew how to stop them on the ground. So let's try to implement the system at one airport in the country and then come to a conclusion...

CNN: What do you think of using full body scanners?

Yeffet: I am against it, this is once again patch on top of patch. Look what happened, Richard Reid, the shoebomber, hid the explosives in his shoes. The result -- all of us have to take off our shoes when we come to the airport. The Nigerian guy hid his explosives in his underwear. The result -- everyone now will be seen naked. Is this the security system that we want?

We have millions of Muslims in this country. I am not Muslim, but I am very familiar with the tradition, I respect the tradition. Women who walk on the street cover their body from head to toe. Can you imagine the reaction of the husband? Excuse me, wait on the side, we want to see your wife's body naked?... This is not an answer.

CNN: Would it be more expensive to provide the kind of security system you recommend?

Yeffet: For sure El Al spends more money on security than the American air carriers. But the passengers are willing to pay for it if we can prove to them that they are secure when they come to take a flight.

[Karen]

The new scanners they are now using have raised questions because of the type of radiation they use, and the possible risk of not only high prevalence of skin cancer, but corneal cancer. There are other, safer technologies.

Run me through the metal detector, I'm okay with that. Do not subject me to extra radiation when you cannot tell me hat it will do to me 5 or ten years from now. Do not put my vision at risk unnecessarily - and it is unnecessary. Do not think you have license to touch me places I could sue anyone else for touching me.

Train some of the millions of dogs that are euthanized for lack of homes every year to be sniffer dogs. I'd rather a dog sniff me - and every bag that goes in every plane, every box and package that comes into every port - than subject myself or anyone else to groping or radiation.

No, I am not needing to fly anywhere soon, thank goodness. But I do think these new measures are taking things to extremes, and doing nothing in terms of increasing our security. Sure - we make everyone take off their shoes, and they send someone with a bomb in his underwear. Whatever measures we take, someone desperate enough will try to find a way around it. It's human nature, sadly.

[sparks19]

As for the "if you don't like it then don't fly"... that could go both ways. If you are SO afraid that you will give up anything to feel a bit safer perhaps YOU should drive instead of fly.

I hate to fly so I avoid it at all costs anyway but if I HAD to (and some people don't have the option to just drive) I don't think I should be subjected to inappropriate touching that would not be tolerated in any other venue and would land that person in jail and require them to report where they are living for the rest of their lives

[Marigold2]

I love to fly. Sports teams, entertainers, business people fly all the time.
If we were to ask all those who died on 9.11 if they would mind these new rules what do you think they would say. What would their message be to us?

[sparks19]

I love to fly. Sports teams, entertainers, business people fly all the time.
If we were to ask all those who died on 9.11 if they would mind these new rules what do you think they would say. What would their message be to us?

uhhhhh I don't know considering the methods we were using before these extreme measures would have caught them since they were using box cutters (hello metal detectors?) so why would they think THIS is nessecary?

Bad things happen. it's a horrible part of life. but you can't just strip people of their rights (no pun intended) because the world is scary....

Actually apparently you can because it's happening right now... and not making anyone any safer. I can think of a few ways around it right off the top of my head and I'm not even a terrorist who is willing to die myself to get the job done.

*shrug*

Where will it end in the name of "safety"?

[Grace]

One woman's experience -

sexual assault by the TSA