Sex abuse in church

[blue]

30 or 40 year old sexual abuse stories really are only good for one thing arent they? An attack on the Church, and an attack on the Pope. As a badly behaving Catholic for most of my life even I can see these stories for what they are an attack on religion.

[wombat2u2004]

30 or 40 year old sexual abuse stories really are only good for one thing arent they? An attack on the Church, and an attack on the Pope. As a badly behaving Catholic for most of my life even I can see these stories for what they are an attack on religion.

If child abuse is religion....then yes it is.

[blue]

If child abuse is religion....then yes it is.

If these stories and cases where from the last 15 or 20 years I would say there is something to the anti Catholic hysteria in the news and with the public. But 30 and 40 year old cases and stories, not so much.

This day in age the Church is the most watched organization when it come to pedofilia. Its like the Ausies are the most watched when it comes to the loving of sheep.

[wombat2u2004]

If these stories and cases where from the last 15 or 20 years I would say there is something to the anti Catholic hysteria in the news and with the public.

Anti-Catholic hysteria ????
You're missing the main point here Blu.
ANYONE.....who is guilty of child sexual abuse, or attempting to hide such individuals should be subjected to the full extent of the law. And that goes for the Pope, the clergy, fireman, police....whoever !!!!! Period.
We have laws...and those laws are in place for very good reasons.
Is the Pope above the Common Law ???? He's just a man. Or do you think he is more than a man ???? And why do you think that Papal Law should be different from the law that we the people must be subjected to ???
I don't care a damn if it's the Catholic church or the local pizza shop, if the bosses of those two establishments are guilty of such a crime, then they must face the same laws.
Anti-Catholic hysteria ???? What for ???? Nobody I know fears the Catholic church !!!!

[blue]

Anti-Catholic hysteria ????
You're missing the main point here Blu.
ANYONE.....who is guilty of child sexual abuse, or attempting to hide such individuals should be subjected to the full extent of the law. And that goes for the Pope, the clergy, fireman, police....whoever !!!!! Period.
We have laws...and those laws are in place for very good reasons.
Is the Pope above the Common Law ???? He's just a man. Or do you think he is more than a man ???? And why do you think that Papal Law should be different from the law that we the people must be subjected to ???
I don't care a damn if it's the Catholic church or the local pizza shop, if the bosses of those two establishments are guilty of such a crime, then they must face the same laws.
Anti-Catholic hysteria ???? What for ???? Nobody I know fears the Catholic church !!!!

You seem to have missed my point.

The fast fix for pedofiles is a $0.10 solution, be it the Pope or Obama's Education Czar. Speaking of Obama's Education Czar, we could probably just go Soviet style on the members of NAMBLA.

All of these 30 or 40 year old stories of clergy sexual abuse is all about attacking the Church.

[wombat2u2004]

All of these 30 or 40 year old stories of clergy sexual abuse is all about attacking the Church.

It's about attacking child abuse.

[blue]

It's about attacking child abuse.

If that where the case they would be focusing on current abuse cases. SO the Church gets demonized for what happened 30-40 years ago, and NAMBLA and Arne Duncan get passes. Thats just great.

[wombat2u2004]

This day in age the Church is the most watched organization when it come to pedofilia.

I wonder why ????

[wombat2u2004]

Its like the Ausies are the most watched when it comes to the loving of sheep.

That's exactly right.
Just like you inbred rednecks who are the butt of our jokes.

[blue]

I wonder why ????

There is a good reason for it given their history. The problem is all of the teachers and other authority figures slipping through the cracks because they are "trusted".

That's exactly right.
Just like you inbred rednecks who are the butt of our jokes.

I may be from Alaska but Im not from a Village.

[wombat2u2004]

There is a good reason for it given their history. The problem is all of the teachers and other authority figures slipping through the cracks because they are "trusted".

Even throughout history, they have never been subjected to the laws of men.
That is the problem.
To be accepted amongst men, they must be held accountable for their crimes as men, and not hold themselves above the laws of men.

[blue]

Even throughout history, they have never been subjected to the laws of men.
That is the problem.
To be accepted amongst men, they must be held accountable for their crimes as men, and not hold themselves above the laws of men.

Thats the thing. Over the last 30-40 years they have been held accountable where the laws apply. And NAMBLA and others still get a pass in society, while the Church and religion get demonized.

I have no idea who Nambla or Duncan are.
But if they are guilty, then they must be held accountable.

Oz doesnt have Google?

[Miss Z]

That's exactly right.
Just like you inbred rednecks who are the butt of our jokes.

Its like the Ausies are the most watched when it comes to the loving of sheep.

Oh dear!

It still astounds me how we have to hate on each other's countries so much on this forum.

Now, before I get back to my afternoon tea and biscuits and croquet...

Blue, I did find myself agreeing with the issue you raised about anti-Catholicism. I was quite surprised, when following this thread, about some of the choice words against them. My country has quite a history of falling out with Catholics , but I've yet to experience the same level of venom I've sensed here with the religious folk I know personally.

I think there is corruption in most religious sects, and as usual they ruin it for all the decent people.

It is fair to say, though, that everyone in this thread is agreed that these priests cannot, and should not be able to, hide behind the shroud of their faith and should be tried and punished as anyone else would. That is the real cause for outcry in this issue, not the Catholic way of living.

I think I may have posted a thread about it a long while ago; there was a vicar in my area who was convicted for downloading indecent images of kids. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. I don't remember exactly what type of Church he belonged to, but it was certainly not a Catholic one.

Back to the marriage issue - he had it all. Wife, kids, nice house, lots of friends. One day, his son discovers the images. Frustrated, or just wrongly wired in the head?

These people turn up in all walks of life, just when it occurs in a religious group, where we expect everyone to be perfect, it feels all the more damning.

This thread should not be used as a chance for a pop at the Catholics.

[Marigold2]

Wom, you words are so eloquently put and so spot on. I could not agree with you more.

A few things I would like to add. It should not matter if these crimes were commited last week or in the last 30 years, children suffered, lives were runined. Their suffering was not less 30 years ago, in fact it was probably greater since people did not speak up as much as they do today. These people Blue are still in great, great pain.

If one judges a persons behavior by past actions then one must take into account tha fact that if it was sweep under the rug and they were not punished in the past, the behavior has continued and perhaps become more brazen.

I have nothing against the church. My nephew Michael is considering priesthood. However I fear for him. Will he be abused by those higher up as has been mentioned on this thread?


LONDON – Protests are growing against Pope Benedict XVI's planned trip to Britain, where some lawyers question whether the Vatican's implicit statehood status should shield the pope from prosecution over sex crimes by pedophile priests.
More than 10,000 people have signed a petition on Downing Street's web site against the pope's 4-day visit to England and Scotland in September, which will cost U.K. taxpayers an estimated 15 million pounds ($22.5 million). The campaign has gained momentum as more Catholic sex abuse scandals have swept across Europe.
Although Benedict has not been accused of any crime, senior British lawyers are now examining whether the pope should have immunity as a head of state and whether he could be prosecuted under the principle of universal jurisdiction for an alleged systematic cover-up of sexual abuses by priests.
Universal jurisdiction — a concept in international law — allows judges to issue warrants for nearly any visitor accused of grievous crimes, no matter where they live. British judges have been more open to the concept than those in other countries.
Lawyers are divided over the immunity issue. Some argue that the Vatican isn't a true state, while others note the Vatican has national relations with about 170 countries, including Britain. The Vatican is also the only non-member to have permanent observer status at the U.N.
Then again, no other top religious leaders enjoy the same U.N. privileges or immunity, so why should the pope?
David Crane, former chief prosecutor at the Sierra Leone war crimes tribunal, said it would be difficult to implicate the pope in anything criminal.
"It's a fascinating kind of academic, theoretical discussion," said Crane, who prosecuted Sierra Leone's Charles Taylor when he was still a sitting head of state. "At this point, there's no liability at all."

This article continues, it's under Yahoo's home page.
So you see others too question weather the pope should be in jail.

If one commits a crime it cannot matter who one is.
The law applies to all weather you are a Catholic, a Buddist or a Lutheran. Wrong is wrong.

As a Catholic Blue I wonder why you would not want to take an active part in cleaning this mess up as much as one can and helping rid the church of sex abuse. Don't you want to make the Catholic church better?

[wombat2u2004]

As a Catholic Blue I wonder why you would not want to take an active part in cleaning this mess up as much as one can and helping rid the church of sex abuse. Don't you want to make the Catholic church better?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

Hmmmm....maybe from a Catholics point of view, it's acceptable behaviour.