Sex abuse in church

**Marigold2** · 03-25-2010, 11:43 AM

Play Video ABC News – Pope Apologizes for Sex Abuse Scandal

Slideshow:Vatican

Reuters – John Pilmaier (L) of the U.S. holds up a picture of Pope Benedict XVI as he takes part in a demonstration …

By Philip Pullella Philip Pullella – Thu Mar 25, 8:57 am ET
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – The Vatican did not discipline a Catholic priest accused of sexually abusing up to 200 deaf boys in the United States from the 1950s to the 1970s as Church laws do not require automatic punishment, its spokesman said on Thursday.
The New York Times reported on Thursday that the Vatican did not defrock Rev. Lawrence Murphy in the late 1990s despite receiving clear warnings from his bishops that his case was serious and could embarrass the Church.
The report came amid mounting allegations of sexual abuse by priests in Europe and pressure on bishops, mostly in Ireland, to resign for failing to report cases to civil authorities.
Among 25 internal Church documents the Times posted on its website was a 1996 letter about Murphy to Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, then the Vatican's top doctrinal official and now Pope Benedict, showing he was informed of his case.
Ratzinger's deputy first advised a secret disciplinary trial but later reversed that in 1998 after Murphy appealed directly to Ratzinger for clemency. The priest died later that year.
Vatican spokesman Rev. Federico Lombardi said in a statement that Murphy had broken the law but a civil probe into complaints against him in the mid-1970s had been dropped and the Vatican only learned of the allegations 20 years later.
"The canonical (Church law) question presented to the Congregation was unrelated to any potential civil or criminal proceedings against Father Murphy," Lombardi said.
"In such cases, the Code of Canon Law does not envision automatic penalties."
EXTENSIVE PAPER TRAIL
The 1996 letter to Ratzinger from the then Milwaukee Archbishop Rembert Weakland was not answered, the Times said.
After eight months, Weakland wrote a second letter to Ratzinger's deputy at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, who is now a cardinal and the pope's secretary of state, or Vatican prime minister.
According to the documents on the Times website, Bertone first advised Weakland in 1997 to discipline Murphy according to a 1962 Vatican document ordering secrecy in handling cases of sexual misconduct by priests.
Murphy appealed directly to Ratzinger in 1998, saying he had repented for his sins and, at 72, was in poor health. Three months later, Bertone backtracked and advised only "pastoral measures" to deal with him. These measures are internal disciplinary steps such as barring him from public ministry.
The diocese of Superior, Wisconsin, where Murphy had moved in 1974 after his abuse cases had surfaced in Milwaukee, rejected this advice and proceeded to organize an internal trial. That work stopped when Murphy died four months later.
Lombardi said the Vatican did not tell bishops not to report abuse to civil authorities but critics note the 1962 document in Latin, known as Crimen sollicitationis ("crime of solicitation") did not specifically say they should.
The critics say bishops steeped in the Church's traditional culture of secrecy would assume they should avoid embarrassing it by going public with such issues.
DAMAGE AMONG THE DEAF

The letters obtained by the Times from lawyers representing five abuse victims suing the Milwaukee archdiocese showed that Weakland and Bishop Raphael Fliss of Superior stressed to the Vatican the damage Murphy had done among deaf Catholics he ministered to as teacher and head of a school for the deaf.
A social worker's notes from a confidential Milwaukee archdiocese interview with Murphy in 1993 showed he admitted abusing 19 boys but said allegations of about 200 cases were "likely to be fairly accurate."
In Rome, leaders of the Survivors Network of those abused by Priests (SNAP) demonstrated in front of St. Peter's Square holding up pictures of Murphy and some of his victims.
In a letter to Irish Catholics last week, Pope Benedict stressed the Church must cooperate with civil authorities in investigating sexual abuse allegations. The Vatican's chief prosecutor for such cases told an Italian Catholic newspaper this month that Church courts tried only about 20 percent of such cases secretly referred to Rome. About 60 percent of them ended with only internal sanctions
This is why I won't give a dime or even a penny to this church, why is this allowed, why do Catholics allow this to happen? Why are they allowed to hide behind the church?
They should go to the police and be charged, being a priest does not mean you can abuse and abuse again, although this article states otherwise.

**caseysmom** · 03-25-2010, 11:59 AM

Once again you are painting a broad group of people with one brush stroke.

**Marigold2** · 03-25-2010, 12:32 PM

We too had scandal in our church. First thing I did was stop the money flow. Nothing makes people stand up and notice like having money taken from them. And then I left the church and made it known why.
Actually everyone knew why. The priniciple and the second grade teacher both married where where having an affair. I belonged to a church and school, Lutheran. The second grade teacher (who was my daughters teacher that year) was married to the history teacher at the high school (he was my son's teacher at the time) they left the state when this all came out. The prinicple stayed on.
Many of us left the church in disgust and disappointment. We felt that our children where being short changed and we were being lied to.
This has to be cleaned up inside the church by the people who stand up and say this has to stop. You have the power to make change.
Deaf boys molested............................... That is pretty freaking sad.
My question is and remains why wasn't something done?

**Cataholic** · 03-25-2010, 12:33 PM

I typically would agree with you, CM, and I surely don't agree with a lot of stuff that Marigold posts for what is usually an overly inflammatory post. However, in this case, as it relates to the Catholic Church's 'official' stance on the sexual abuse, she is pretty right on.

Sure, the Church's stance on sexual abuse is that it is wrong. No one would disagree with that. BUT, the Church's stance on what has happened, and sometimes what the Church KNEW was happening goes beyond the pale.

If one cannot blame the Catholic church, whom can one blame?

**lizbud** · 03-25-2010, 07:58 PM

The Catholic church today is not the same as it was in years past.
The facts uncovered reveal a very wrongheaded approach to dealing
with transgressions by the Clergy. They are not just moral wrongs, they
are civil wrongs against it youngest members.

In this media age, these wrongs will not stay hidden.

**wombat2u2004** · 03-27-2010, 05:35 AM

This stuff you hear on the media is but the tip if the iceburg.
Nothing like this has ever happened in my direct Protestant family, and why ???? Because the ministers and lay preachers get married, have children, and lead normal lives outside of the church. Sure, I've heard of Anglican ministers having affairs....but don't lots of folks ??? It's not abuse of anything.....I'm sure their affair partners are quite willing. There is no law that criminalises an affair between two consenting adults.

Within the Catholic church it is different, as you do know. They have priests and nuns who are not allowed to marry (humans that is) and must take celibacy vows.
My first wife was Catholic, and her elder sister had an affair with a French Catholic priest when she was but a choir girl of 15. My ex brother in law, who entered Catholic college to become a priest, was so sexually abused by his teachers in his first year of studies, that he left.
They made no complaint, as 99.9% of those who are abused don't.
All of this is kept quite by the victims, and in my ex's family, the knowledge was only shared amongst family members.
So it goes on more than what you think....in fact, it is quite rampant within the Catholic church.

**wombat2u2004** · 03-27-2010, 05:38 AM

Oh, and by the way. Ratzingers position within the church was to receive abuse reports and sweep them under the mat accordingly.
Now he is Pope.......
....the higher the position, the more responsibility......the more corruption.

**kokopup** · 03-27-2010, 09:58 AM

lizbud

In this media age, these wrongs will not stay hidden.

I don't see anything happening because of the media coverage. These abuse cases have been in the news for decades with nothing new happening to make it change. It appears that the abuse is so rampant that the higher up's are covering the abuses of those under them. It is like a good old boys club where everyone covers for everyone else, because the offenses go all the way up to the top. Why else would this continue. The guilty are never held accountable for their wrongs.

**Marigold2** · 03-27-2010, 10:14 AM

THIS HAS TO STOP. Yes I am shouting but my god we are talking about children being sexually abused. Is any crime uglier?
Who can stop this? The people who go to church, the people who put money in the collection box, that is who will stop it. If the everyday person stands up and demands this to stop and does not give the church money they will have no choice but to change for the church runs on money. No money, no church. Simple really.
What is that famous quote? All that evil requires is for good men to do nothing.
I beg all Catholics to stand up and do something. It is your duty to fix this. As a Catholic to stand by and do nothing is a crime in itself to man and God.
When the collection plate comes around instead of putting money in how about a note saying that you will give money to the church once again when this matter is resolved and child abuse is reported to the police and not sweep under the rug by our Pope. A man of God no he is a man of money.

**pomtzu** · 03-27-2010, 10:14 AM

The Catholic Church is a rich nation all in itself, and makes it's own rules. Money talks, so is it any wonder why they get away with what they do???

If some little Southern Baptist minister did something even remotely close to what some of these Catholic priests have done, the public would want to track him down and hang his sorry a$$ from the highest tree!

I am neither Catholic or Southern Baptist, but I would like to see the "proper" justice carried out, no matter what church they are affiliated with. Is it any wonder why so many people continue to leave the church?

**Alysser** · 03-27-2010, 10:53 AM

I am considered a Catholic, but I don't like religion, personally. I don't go to church, read the bible, etc. I don't do any of that. I believe in God to an extent, but I'm mostly all for science. I am sometimes ashamed for making confirmation 3 years ago...Creationism is all bs to me, but I see we're not here to debate that. This is one reason I don't like my own religion. I don't like the rules of the church, I don't like what goes one, and I most certainly do NOT like the control over all the people in the religion.

I agree, PomTzu. It really isn't surprising that so many people are leaving.

**lizbud** · 03-27-2010, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by wombat2u2004

This stuff you hear on the media is but the tip if the iceburg.
Nothing like this has ever happened in my direct Protestant family, and why ???? Because the ministers and lay preachers get married, have children, and lead normal lives outside of the church. Sure, I've heard of Anglican ministers having affairs....but don't lots of folks ??? It's not abuse of anything.....I'm sure their affair partners are quite willing. There is no law that criminalises an affair between two consenting adults.

Within the Catholic church it is different, as you do know. They have priests and nuns who are not allowed to marry (humans that is) and must take celibacy vows.
My first wife was Catholic, and her elder sister had an affair with a French Catholic priest when she was but a choir girl of 15. My ex brother in law, who entered Catholic college to become a priest, was so sexually abused by his teachers in his first year of studies, that he left.
They made no complaint, as 99.9% of those who are abused don't.
All of this is kept quite by the victims, and in my ex's family, the knowledge was only shared amongst family members.
So it goes on more than what you think....in fact, it is quite rampant within the Catholic church.

These abuses have nothing to do with priests & nun being married.
It has to do with pedophila. A pedophile can be married or single but
they still abuse children.

**lizbud** · 03-27-2010, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by kokopup

lizbud

I don't see anything happening because of the media coverage. These abuse cases have been in the news for decades with nothing new happening to make it change. It appears that the abuse is so rampant that the higher up's are covering the abuses of those under them. It is like a good old boys club where everyone covers for everyone else, because the offenses go all the way up to the top. Why else would this continue. The guilty are never held accountable for their wrongs.

The internet (media) has stories from all over the world. This shared
info shows the same thing happened in many countries. We didn't have
the instant access to news & info 30 -40 years ago. That's what I meant.

**Karen** · 03-27-2010, 01:27 PM

Thankfully the culture in the Catholic Church in some areas is beginning to change, the change could not come fast enough for me. Being in the Boston area, even though I am not Catholic and never have been, this was a huge story several years ago, and the consequences are still being felt to this day.

**pomtzu** · 03-27-2010, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by lizbud

These abuses have nothing to do with priests & nun being married.
It has to do with pedophila. A pedophile can be married or single but
they still abuse children.

I may be wrong (it wouldn't be the 1st time), but I believe the point that Wom is trying to make, is that if priests were allowed to marry and have a relationship as such, that there would be less of this abuse. Yes - there are pedophiles, married and single, from all walks of life, and unfortunately it will continue, but I really believe that there would be a lot less among the clergy, if they were permitted to marry. And not only that, but perhaps more men of higher moral standards would join the priesthood if this was allowed.
Just stating my opinion - not looking for a confrontation!