Sex abuse in church

[lizbud]

This stuff you hear on the media is but the tip if the iceburg.
Nothing like this has ever happened in my direct Protestant family, and why ???? Because the ministers and lay preachers get married, have children, and lead normal lives outside of the church. Sure, I've heard of Anglican ministers having affairs....but don't lots of folks ??? It's not abuse of anything.....I'm sure their affair partners are quite willing. There is no law that criminalises an affair between two consenting adults.

Within the Catholic church it is different, as you do know. They have priests and nuns who are not allowed to marry (humans that is) and must take celibacy vows.
My first wife was Catholic, and her elder sister had an affair with a French Catholic priest when she was but a choir girl of 15. My ex brother in law, who entered Catholic college to become a priest, was so sexually abused by his teachers in his first year of studies, that he left.
They made no complaint, as 99.9% of those who are abused don't.
All of this is kept quite by the victims, and in my ex's family, the knowledge was only shared amongst family members.
So it goes on more than what you think....in fact, it is quite rampant within the Catholic church.

These abuses have nothing to do with priests & nun being married.
It has to do with pedophila. A pedophile can be married or single but
they still abuse children.

[pomtzu]

These abuses have nothing to do with priests & nun being married.
It has to do with pedophila. A pedophile can be married or single but
they still abuse children.

I may be wrong (it wouldn't be the 1st time), but I believe the point that Wom is trying to make, is that if priests were allowed to marry and have a relationship as such, that there would be less of this abuse. Yes - there are pedophiles, married and single, from all walks of life, and unfortunately it will continue, but I really believe that there would be a lot less among the clergy, if they were permitted to marry. And not only that, but perhaps more men of higher moral standards would join the priesthood if this was allowed.
Just stating my opinion - not looking for a confrontation!

[lizbud]

I may be wrong (it wouldn't be the 1st time), but I believe the point that Wom is trying to make, is that if priests were allowed to marry and have a relationship as such, that there would be less of this abuse. Yes - there are pedophiles, married and single, from all walks of life, and unfortunately it will continue, but I really believe that there would be a lot less among the clergy, if they were permitted to marry. And not only that, but perhaps more men of higher moral standards would join the priesthood if this was allowed.
Just stating my opinion - not looking for a confrontation!

No problem, I understand.

I really don't think being married, or not ,has anything to do with being
a pedophile. The clergy don't abuse children because they can't marry.

[Karen]

No problem, I understand.

I really don't think being married, or not ,has anything to do with being
a pedophile. The clergy don't abuse children because they can't marry.

No, but pedophiles may gravitate toward jobs that have to do with children, sadly.

[lizbud]

No, but pedophiles may gravitate toward jobs that have to do with children, sadly.

Now, that could be true. These people who abuse children don't have
"normal" sexual desires for heterosexual relationships. They are deviates
from the normal.

[wombat2u2004]

Now, that could be true. These people who abuse children don't have
"normal" sexual desires for heterosexual relationships. They are deviates
from the normal.

No no no....they DO have normal sexual desires. They are the same as everyone else. But that changes because of circumstance.
They cannot have a normal sexual realationship, so therefore they take the only way out, and have an abnormal sexual relationship.

[Catty1]

But Wom - isn't that like saying the pedophiles among us can choose to marry, and therefore won't prey on children?

I think the one point made was that the Catholic clergy is attractive to pedophiles because they don't have to hide behind a marriage...and they have a lot of access to their victims.

I agree that there likely are affairs of all kinds in the Catholic church, but I bet pedophilia is of a higher incidence than in other churches, or the public at large.

Churches that welcome pastors with families will attract that element. Less so for pedophiles!

[pomtzu]

No problem, I understand.

I really don't think being married, or not ,has anything to do with being
a pedophile. The clergy don't abuse children because they can't marry.

But I think that if they were allowed a healthy sexual relationship with a wife, they would be less likely to gravitate towards children. I'm rather certain that most don't start out or intend to abuse children, but that it is done out of sexual frustration, it escalates, and there you are - a monster is born. I'm in no way defending their actions - they are monsters and need to be dealt with accordingly. I just think there would be less of them if the Church would change their rules and requirements for priests.



Yikes - and I'm the one that doesn't like to debate politics or religion!!!

[Catty1]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...ower.html#more

Truth To Power

18 Mar 2010 08:45 pm


BENEDICT AndreasSolaro:Getty

From: The Atlantic

Hans Kung, the greatest Catholic theologian of our time:

Is it not time for Pope Benedict XVI himself to acknowledge his share of responsibility, instead of whining about a campaign against his person? No other person in the Church has had to deal with so many cases of abuse crossing his desk. Here are some reminders:

In his eight years as a professor of theology in Regensburg, in close contact with his brother Georg, the capellmeister of the Regensburger Domspatzen, Ratzinger can hardly have been ignorant about what went on in the choir and its boarding--school. This was much more than an occasional slap in the face, there are charges of serious physical violence and even sexual abuse.

In his five years as Archbishop of Munich, repeated cases of sexual abuse at least by one priest transferred to his Archdiocese have come to light. His loyal Vicar General, my classmate Gerhard Gruber, has taken full responsibility for the handling of this case, but that is hardly an excuse for the Archbishop, who is ultimately responsible for the administration of his diocese.

In his 24 years as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, from around the world, all cases of grave sexual offences by clerics had to be reported, under strictest secrecy ("secretum pontificum"), to his curial office, which was exclusively responsible for dealing with them. Ratzinger himself, in a letter on "grave sexual crimes" addressed to all the bishops under the date of 18 May, 2001, warned the bishops, under threat of ecclesiastical punishment, to observe "papal secrecy" in such cases.

In his five years as Pope, Benedict XVI has done nothing to change this practice with all its fateful consequences.

Honesty demands that Joseph Ratzinger himself, the man who for decades has been principally responsible for the worldwide cover-up, at last pronounce his own "mea culpa".

As Bishop Tebartz van Elst of Limburg, in a radio address on March 14, put it: "Scandalous wrongs cannot be glossed over or tolerated, we need a change of attitude that makes room for the truth. Conversion and repentance begin when guilt is openly admitted, when contrition1 is expressed in deeds and manifested as such, when responsibility is taken, and the chance for a new beginning is seized upon."

(Photo: Andreas Solari/AFP/Getty.)

[wombat2u2004]

Excellent post...I agree 100%

I don't !!!!
As usual, every separate perversion is neatly tucked away in little boxes with labels and pink ribbons around them, looks great on someone's bookshelf.
Rape is not a sexual issue ??? Who's the bright spark who thought that one up ??? I don't give a damn much about researchers, their opinions usually change with the seasons (and with how many bucks they can get).
Rape is a sexual issue !!!! It's about domination, sexual release, cruelty, abuse....but mostly, it is simply about sex.

Now onto the mainsteam of this thread............

The questions are.....How were the perversions of these people fostered ????
What are the real reasons why they have become the way they are ???
What can society do about them ???
Any answers ????

I can remember reading of a particular court case about some very high ranking English men who gathered monthly and committed sexual torture on whoever of that group was selected. A doctor was always in attendance to make sure that things never got too far (he was the one who broke down and spilled the beans to the public.)
Now, how was it that those men became what they are ????
Are you ready for this ?????
They were educated at British Public Schools....boarding schools of all boys.
No girls.....just all boys. And I don't know if you have any knowledge of what went on in those places.....but I do.....they were naught but male brothels, a breeding ground for a decadent upper class who practice horrific sexual acts on each other, and then released to commit the same outside of the system.

So how come children are sexually abused within the Catholic Church system by priests ??? (Where the priests are not allowed to be married. Surely those priests have built up sexual frustration).
How come boys are abused in the British Public School system by both their teachers and peers ??? (Where usually the teachers are unmarried and live in the same dorms as the boys, supposedly to instill in them their whacked out form of discipline. Surely they have built up sexual frustration.....including the boys who attend those institutions.)
Further.....how come that sexual abuse DOES NOT happen here where I come from ???? My city is full of private colleges, both male and female, in fact my daughter attends one of them. No abuse here. But then again....all of the teachers and dorm staff that I know, are all married !!!!!

So where are all these whackoes ??? All the sexual abusers ????
None here !!!!
But then again....they're married, probably happily, have families of their own.
No problems.

You know.....it's pretty simple when you stand back and look at the situation and not have your mind cluttered with research reports of information that in most cases are 99% preamble.

As Catty1 said "If a number of these priests came up through the ranks after being members of a Catholic congregation with a pedophile priest, they will abuse also."

I can't argue with that one.

[Miss Z]

How come boys are abused in the British Public School system by both their teachers and peers ??? (Where usually the teachers are unmarried and live in the same dorms as the boys, supposedly to instill in them their whacked out form of discipline.

-----------

So where are all these whackoes ??? All the sexual abusers ????
None here !!!!
No problems.

What dookie.

On the topic, I do wonder how far the good old Pontifex fancied 'papal secrecy' would extend? In his several high-profile positions, he MUST have known someone would tell on him eventually, surely?

[RICHARD]

I can remember reading of a particular court case about some very high ranking English men who gathered monthly and committed sexual torture on whoever of that group was selected. A doctor was always in attendance to make sure that things never got too far (he was the one who broke down and spilled the beans to the public.)

Was that covered under Brit health care rules?

--------------


And why the break in the "secret double probation" rules?

[wombat2u2004]

Was that covered under Brit health care rules?

--------------


And why the break in the "secret double probation" rules?

Hee hee. You should have read what these guys did to themselves

[Karen]

Further.....how come that sexual abuse DOES NOT happen here where I come from ???? My city is full of private colleges, both male and female, in fact my daughter attends one of them. No abuse here. But then again....all of the teachers and dorm staff that I know, are all married !!!!!

So where are all these whackoes ??? All the sexual abusers ????
None here !!!!
But then again....they're married, probably happily, have families of their own.
No problems.

Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, Wom. Sad to say, where there are enough human beings, things can happen.

http://www.clergyabuseaustralia.org/

[wombat2u2004]

Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, Wom. Sad to say, where there are enough human beings, things can happen.

http://www.clergyabuseaustralia.org/

I agree.
But if for instance, a teacher in my daughters college was found guilty of such behaviour, then that person would be probably locked up and the key thrown away. And I'm sure the college and the staff would not support that individual in any manner.
But if it was a Catholic institution.....they'd remove him from my town and send him to your town.
Isn't the whole point of the matter to be rid of these people out of the community ???