Sex abuse in church

**caseysmom** · 03-25-2010, 12:59 PM

Once again you are painting a broad group of people with one brush stroke.

**Marigold2** · 03-25-2010, 01:32 PM

We too had scandal in our church. First thing I did was stop the money flow. Nothing makes people stand up and notice like having money taken from them. And then I left the church and made it known why.
Actually everyone knew why. The priniciple and the second grade teacher both married where where having an affair. I belonged to a church and school, Lutheran. The second grade teacher (who was my daughters teacher that year) was married to the history teacher at the high school (he was my son's teacher at the time) they left the state when this all came out. The prinicple stayed on.
Many of us left the church in disgust and disappointment. We felt that our children where being short changed and we were being lied to.
This has to be cleaned up inside the church by the people who stand up and say this has to stop. You have the power to make change.
Deaf boys molested............................... That is pretty freaking sad.
My question is and remains why wasn't something done?

**Cataholic** · 03-25-2010, 01:33 PM

I typically would agree with you, CM, and I surely don't agree with a lot of stuff that Marigold posts for what is usually an overly inflammatory post. However, in this case, as it relates to the Catholic Church's 'official' stance on the sexual abuse, she is pretty right on.

Sure, the Church's stance on sexual abuse is that it is wrong. No one would disagree with that. BUT, the Church's stance on what has happened, and sometimes what the Church KNEW was happening goes beyond the pale.

If one cannot blame the Catholic church, whom can one blame?

**lizbud** · 03-25-2010, 08:58 PM

The Catholic church today is not the same as it was in years past.
The facts uncovered reveal a very wrongheaded approach to dealing
with transgressions by the Clergy. They are not just moral wrongs, they
are civil wrongs against it youngest members.

In this media age, these wrongs will not stay hidden.

**wombat2u2004** · 03-27-2010, 06:35 AM

This stuff you hear on the media is but the tip if the iceburg.
Nothing like this has ever happened in my direct Protestant family, and why ???? Because the ministers and lay preachers get married, have children, and lead normal lives outside of the church. Sure, I've heard of Anglican ministers having affairs....but don't lots of folks ??? It's not abuse of anything.....I'm sure their affair partners are quite willing. There is no law that criminalises an affair between two consenting adults.

Within the Catholic church it is different, as you do know. They have priests and nuns who are not allowed to marry (humans that is) and must take celibacy vows.
My first wife was Catholic, and her elder sister had an affair with a French Catholic priest when she was but a choir girl of 15. My ex brother in law, who entered Catholic college to become a priest, was so sexually abused by his teachers in his first year of studies, that he left.
They made no complaint, as 99.9% of those who are abused don't.
All of this is kept quite by the victims, and in my ex's family, the knowledge was only shared amongst family members.
So it goes on more than what you think....in fact, it is quite rampant within the Catholic church.

**wombat2u2004** · 03-27-2010, 06:38 AM

Oh, and by the way. Ratzingers position within the church was to receive abuse reports and sweep them under the mat accordingly.
Now he is Pope.......
....the higher the position, the more responsibility......the more corruption.

**kokopup** · 03-27-2010, 10:58 AM

lizbud

In this media age, these wrongs will not stay hidden.

I don't see anything happening because of the media coverage. These abuse cases have been in the news for decades with nothing new happening to make it change. It appears that the abuse is so rampant that the higher up's are covering the abuses of those under them. It is like a good old boys club where everyone covers for everyone else, because the offenses go all the way up to the top. Why else would this continue. The guilty are never held accountable for their wrongs.

**Marigold2** · 03-27-2010, 11:14 AM

THIS HAS TO STOP. Yes I am shouting but my god we are talking about children being sexually abused. Is any crime uglier?
Who can stop this? The people who go to church, the people who put money in the collection box, that is who will stop it. If the everyday person stands up and demands this to stop and does not give the church money they will have no choice but to change for the church runs on money. No money, no church. Simple really.
What is that famous quote? All that evil requires is for good men to do nothing.
I beg all Catholics to stand up and do something. It is your duty to fix this. As a Catholic to stand by and do nothing is a crime in itself to man and God.
When the collection plate comes around instead of putting money in how about a note saying that you will give money to the church once again when this matter is resolved and child abuse is reported to the police and not sweep under the rug by our Pope. A man of God no he is a man of money.

**pomtzu** · 03-27-2010, 11:14 AM

The Catholic Church is a rich nation all in itself, and makes it's own rules. Money talks, so is it any wonder why they get away with what they do???

If some little Southern Baptist minister did something even remotely close to what some of these Catholic priests have done, the public would want to track him down and hang his sorry a$$ from the highest tree!

I am neither Catholic or Southern Baptist, but I would like to see the "proper" justice carried out, no matter what church they are affiliated with. Is it any wonder why so many people continue to leave the church?

**lizbud** · 03-27-2010, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by kokopup

lizbud

I don't see anything happening because of the media coverage. These abuse cases have been in the news for decades with nothing new happening to make it change. It appears that the abuse is so rampant that the higher up's are covering the abuses of those under them. It is like a good old boys club where everyone covers for everyone else, because the offenses go all the way up to the top. Why else would this continue. The guilty are never held accountable for their wrongs.

The internet (media) has stories from all over the world. This shared
info shows the same thing happened in many countries. We didn't have
the instant access to news & info 30 -40 years ago. That's what I meant.

**lizbud** · 03-27-2010, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by wombat2u2004

This stuff you hear on the media is but the tip if the iceburg.
Nothing like this has ever happened in my direct Protestant family, and why ???? Because the ministers and lay preachers get married, have children, and lead normal lives outside of the church. Sure, I've heard of Anglican ministers having affairs....but don't lots of folks ??? It's not abuse of anything.....I'm sure their affair partners are quite willing. There is no law that criminalises an affair between two consenting adults.

Within the Catholic church it is different, as you do know. They have priests and nuns who are not allowed to marry (humans that is) and must take celibacy vows.
My first wife was Catholic, and her elder sister had an affair with a French Catholic priest when she was but a choir girl of 15. My ex brother in law, who entered Catholic college to become a priest, was so sexually abused by his teachers in his first year of studies, that he left.
They made no complaint, as 99.9% of those who are abused don't.
All of this is kept quite by the victims, and in my ex's family, the knowledge was only shared amongst family members.
So it goes on more than what you think....in fact, it is quite rampant within the Catholic church.

These abuses have nothing to do with priests & nun being married.
It has to do with pedophila. A pedophile can be married or single but
they still abuse children.

**pomtzu** · 03-27-2010, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by lizbud

These abuses have nothing to do with priests & nun being married.
It has to do with pedophila. A pedophile can be married or single but
they still abuse children.

I may be wrong (it wouldn't be the 1st time), but I believe the point that Wom is trying to make, is that if priests were allowed to marry and have a relationship as such, that there would be less of this abuse. Yes - there are pedophiles, married and single, from all walks of life, and unfortunately it will continue, but I really believe that there would be a lot less among the clergy, if they were permitted to marry. And not only that, but perhaps more men of higher moral standards would join the priesthood if this was allowed.
Just stating my opinion - not looking for a confrontation!

**lizbud** · 03-27-2010, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by pomtzu

I may be wrong (it wouldn't be the 1st time), but I believe the point that Wom is trying to make, is that if priests were allowed to marry and have a relationship as such, that there would be less of this abuse. Yes - there are pedophiles, married and single, from all walks of life, and unfortunately it will continue, but I really believe that there would be a lot less among the clergy, if they were permitted to marry. And not only that, but perhaps more men of higher moral standards would join the priesthood if this was allowed.
Just stating my opinion - not looking for a confrontation!

No problem, I understand.

I really don't think being married, or not ,has anything to do with being
a pedophile. The clergy don't abuse children because they can't marry.

**Catty1** · 03-30-2010, 12:05 AM

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...ower.html#more

Truth To Power

18 Mar 2010 08:45 pm

BENEDICT AndreasSolaro:Getty

From: The Atlantic

Hans Kung, the greatest Catholic theologian of our time:

Is it not time for Pope Benedict XVI himself to acknowledge his share of responsibility, instead of whining about a campaign against his person? No other person in the Church has had to deal with so many cases of abuse crossing his desk. Here are some reminders:

In his eight years as a professor of theology in Regensburg, in close contact with his brother Georg, the capellmeister of the Regensburger Domspatzen, Ratzinger can hardly have been ignorant about what went on in the choir and its boarding--school. This was much more than an occasional slap in the face, there are charges of serious physical violence and even sexual abuse.

In his five years as Archbishop of Munich, repeated cases of sexual abuse at least by one priest transferred to his Archdiocese have come to light. His loyal Vicar General, my classmate Gerhard Gruber, has taken full responsibility for the handling of this case, but that is hardly an excuse for the Archbishop, who is ultimately responsible for the administration of his diocese.

In his 24 years as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, from around the world, all cases of grave sexual offences by clerics had to be reported, under strictest secrecy ("secretum pontificum"), to his curial office, which was exclusively responsible for dealing with them. Ratzinger himself, in a letter on "grave sexual crimes" addressed to all the bishops under the date of 18 May, 2001, warned the bishops, under threat of ecclesiastical punishment, to observe "papal secrecy" in such cases.

In his five years as Pope, Benedict XVI has done nothing to change this practice with all its fateful consequences.

Honesty demands that Joseph Ratzinger himself, the man who for decades has been principally responsible for the worldwide cover-up, at last pronounce his own "mea culpa".

As Bishop Tebartz van Elst of Limburg, in a radio address on March 14, put it: "Scandalous wrongs cannot be glossed over or tolerated, we need a change of attitude that makes room for the truth. Conversion and repentance begin when guilt is openly admitted, when contrition1 is expressed in deeds and manifested as such, when responsibility is taken, and the chance for a new beginning is seized upon."

(Photo: Andreas Solari/AFP/Getty.)

**wombat2u2004** · 03-27-2010, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by lizbud

These abuses have nothing to do with priests & nun being married.
It has to do with pedophila. A pedophile can be married or single but
they still abuse children.

Yes, it has a lot to do with it. In fact it has everything to do with it.
These people cannot live a normal sexual life as do those outside of the clergy, so therefore they must conceal it. And what better way is there to conceal it, than to target children who they frighten into silence ????
As I said before...I have seen it within my own ex family....these were vulnerable children....the young...those who are still trying to figure out what life is all about, and what is right and what is wrong. The priests know this, and exploit it accordingly.

A story........I don't know how true this is, but I'll let you figure it out.
Back in the 1970's, when I was a shopfitter carpenter, I had a labourer (all of us tradesmen had one that was assigned to us). My labourer Teddy, was Maltese, and I worked with him for some 5 years, and became very good friends with him. Teddy hated the church, he was a very strict Catholic and paid his tithes accordingly, and it was 10% of his wages. Of course he kept paying and paying, and did so because it was EXPECTED of him, to maintain the guise of being a good Catholic.
One day he told me, that in Malta there were these convents that trained nuns. When their training was finished, the priests would come along and pick out the most prettiest of the nuns, and have them posted to the Vatican....you can guess what for.
Like I said....I can't vouch for the truth of this.
But I did know Teddy, and he was a pretty honest sort of a guy.