Max

[Medusa]

OMG - that's it!!!!!!! Mary, how can I thank you enough for this. We just simply have to meet someday.

I'm going to print off that page and talk to my vet again about B vitamin shot. I mentioned it to him a while ago but he indicated that there was no clinical proof that B shots work. When Max was at the vet recently I had the vet look inside his mouth and nothing was found. Yes, his teeth are in not too good shape but I'm not putting him through the stress of a dental right now.

What is IIRC?

My vet, whom I adore, said the same thing but I said "Humor me". I saw an immediate difference in Puddy. Some say to just give B6 or B12 but I did all the B vitamins and it sure perked her up and stopped the tongue hanging out of her mouth, which made me so sad to see.

Sorry about the IIRC. It means "if I recall correctly". I seem to have fallen into the LOL speak w/out even realizing it.

[slick]

I just spoke to Dr. Singh and although he's never heard of "burning mouth syndrome" he's willing to try to Vit B shots.

Question for Mary - how often did Puddy get the shots? Once a week? Once a month?? Did you give the shots at home or take Puddy in?

Thanks.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Prayers are continuing here for you and Sweet Sir Max.

[ChrisH]

Prayers continuing for your sweet boy and you.

[Medusa]

I just spoke to Dr. Singh and although he's never heard of "burning mouth syndrome" he's willing to try to Vit B shots.

Question for Mary - how often did Puddy get the shots? Once a week? Once a month?? Did you give the shots at home or take Puddy in?

Thanks.

My vet gave me a syringe w/1cc of B complex vitamins in it and I injected it into the port in the bag of subQ fluids. She got 150 cc of Ringers lactate every day. If I hadn't done that, she would've been injected twice a week w/1 cc of B complex vitamins. I know that Max can't tolerate the subQ's, so your vet will probably administer the injections for you. Hope this helps, Slick.

[krazyaboutkatz]

Slick, I hope that the vitamin B12 shots will help Max. Both my RB Starr and Ziggy have had them and I injected them myself at home and they got them once weekly. It gave Starr lots of energy and helped his dull coat and improved his whiskers. It helped to improve Ziggy's appetite.

Since Max is still having problems using the litter boxes, you might want to buy some puppy training pads for him. You can just put them in the places where he's been going potty and hopefully he'll learn to use them so then there won't be a mess for you to clean up. You could also put them near the litter boxes too. Good luck.

Lots more prayers and positive thoughts are being sent his way. Please take care. (((HUGS)))

[carole]

Slick i am thinking of you and Max, just keep him as comfortable as you can, I personally have decided not to put Ash through anything more,just to look after him well, love him,pander to his every need and keep his medication going,a dental is totally out of the question for Ash and I presume probably for Max too, i understand what you are going through and think of you both often, love and hugs to you both.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Slick, while you're vet is at it (giving Max Vitamin B shots) have him add in some potassium. I believe Max's "weakness" can be directly attributed to a deficiency in potassium that is very common in CRF cats. When I first brought Tubby in and thought he was a goner, the vet immediately knew the reason he couldn't lift his butt was because his potassium deficiency was making his back legs weak. I had thought it was arthritis myself, but the vet immediately knew it had nothing to do with arthritis - and I'm soooo sorry it too this long for this to dawn on me!

Tubby got his potassium replenished with an additive that was included in the fluids we gave him. Between the fluids and the potassium, we noticed an immediate improvement in Tubby. Since Max doesn't do well with the fluids, ask the vet if he can include the potassium in Max's shots, or maybe there's a pill you can give him.

Here's some information from the web:
==============================
POTASSIUM DEFICIENCY IN THE CAT



Hypokalemia is the medical term for a depletion of potassium in the body. Potassium is one of the essential electrolytes that keeps the body healthy and functioning properly. It is very important in kidney, muscle and heart function.

The most common cause of hypokalemia (low potassium) is chronic kidney disease. Poorly functioning kidneys leak potassium into the urine. Cats fed certain diets or given a supplement to acidify the urine may be more likely to suffer from potassium loss. Potassium deficiency is also common in older cats (twelve years of age or more) in general, with or without kidney disease. Older cats are less efficient at absorbing potassium from their food and they tend to lose more of it in their urine. Even without obvious signs of kidney disease, all older cats have some degree of decreased kidney function, which occurs naturally with time.

SIGNS. In the beginning stages of potassium deficiency, signs are very subtle, and often attributed to “old age” or other diseases. Cats may show weight loss, muscle weakness or stiffness, poor hair coat, poor appetite, and listlessness. These signs are usually not evident until the condition has become severe and possibly life threatening.

DIAGNOSIS. Diagnosis is confirmed by the determination of low levels of blood potassium through blood testing. Laboratory results must be interpreted in relation to clinical signs and history, since cats may have a normal blood potassium level and still have serious total body potassium depletion. This is because the body mobilizes stores of potassium from the muscle tissue to keep the amount of potassium in the blood constant. Low blood potassium levels don’t appear until all the muscle stores of potassium have been used up. It then takes a long time to restore potassium levels to a healthy amount in both blood and muscle tissues.

TREATMENT. Although severe potassium deficiencies may require hospitalization and intensive care, along with intravenous potassium administration, the treatment for chronic but not life-threatening hypokalemia is to add potassium to the diet. The most common brand of supplement, Tumil-Kä, is a source of potassium gluconate. It is available in a tablet, a paste similar to a hairball remedy, or a powder that can be mixed in canned food. Most cats will readily accept one of these forms of supplement.

RESPONSE TO TREATMENT. Visible response to supplementation can take 4-8 weeks. Your veterinarian will want to recheck your cat’s blood to monitor potassium levels on a regular basis. This will ensure the appropriate dosage is achieved and maintained. Lifelong therapy is usually required once hypokalemia has been diagnosed.
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Again, I'm sooooo sorry it took me this long to remember this, but I think it was your recent descriptions of how Max has a hard time lifting his back end that triggered my memories of Tubby.

{{{hugs}}} to you and good luck. I adored the pictures of Max with all his stuffy friends. He's such a cutie pie.

Oh, and I don't know if Max will tolerate them, but they do make diapers for doggies that may work for Max. If you remember, Peanut did quite well with them. I think it made her look totally pathetic, but she didn't seem to mind them and they took a huge load off my mind. Instead of spending time on finding pee spots and cleaning them, you can spend time snuggling with your little boy.

[Lilith Cherry]

Lots of loving thoughts to you and Max ,Slick. I hope some of the previous suggestions will help him feel more comfortable.

[zippy-kat]

Slick, my vet, too, was concerned about K'Cee getting enough potassium; he said (for us) this is where the hairball remedies come into play. I give this to her every other day. It's cheap, about $12.00 a bottle. That might be a "maintenance" option for Max after the potassium shots.

Forgive me if this has already been posted but I've found a wealth of information here: CRF Cats.

And for what it's worth, I've had tremendous luck (thank you, God!) with Azodyl. That might be something you ask about if you haven't already. From what I understand, Azodyl is "internal dialysis" so to speak; it increases good gut bacteria which in turn helps break down certain toxins, resulting in a lower BUN level.

Still thinking and praying for you guys.

[slick]

Gosh, every time I come here there's new information. Thank you all so very much. I have an appointment with Dr. Singh today at 2:30pm (just me and him) and I want to talk to him. Max's last blood tests revealed that his potassium level is too high so I want to talk to Dr. Singh about that as well as Azodyl that Zippy mentioned. Thanks Zippy for the link to the CRF website. I have been there and yes, it's an amazing site.

Debbie: Many, many thanks for that information as well. Good to hear from you.

I know that he was previously diagnosed with IVDD - Inter Vertebral Disc Disease and I wonder if this is the cause of his weakness. At that same time Dr. Singh mentioned Spondylosis of the Lumbar L5 & L6 - but all this was about a year ago.

[slick]

Slowly but surely he's getting banned from different rooms. Now he seems to think that the floor beside the toilet in the guest bathroom is his litterbox so now that bathroom door stays closed at all times - it's too small to put a litterbox in there. Yes, I could use pee pads, but I want him to start using the "real" litterbox again. I hope it doesn't come down to point where Max has to be confined to one room only. That's no life for him.

Dr. Singh really feels that there is nothing we can do at this point and I have to say I agree. His potassium level is too high so giving him that supplement is not an option. I asked him about the Azodyl and he said that it's not an option either because it can cause major kidney damage. Dr. Singh confirmed that the cause of his weakness is from the IVDD and once it sets in, there is no treatment that can help. Oh yes, about the Vitamin B shots, Dr. Singh said we could try it but he's doubtful it will help at this late stage and in addition he said that they sting quite badly.

He is hungry though and still goes through a whole small tin of Fancy Feast at night and when I come home from work I see that his dry food has been nibbled at. Again, all I can do is keep him comfortable. I fear I may have to make a decision in the not-too-distant future.

Oh about the diapers, somehow I don't think that would work. He won't even tolerate a collar.

[ChrisH]

Oh, slick ... {{hugs}} love and prayers continuing.

[emily_the_spoiled]

I don't know if you want to explore the option of reducing his potassium levels, but that might help...

You can try a diuretic (like Lasix) or something call Kayexelate (which binds the potassium and then it is excreted as a "tootsie roll"

But I do not envy you your decisions...

[Barbara]

Slick I send all my best thoughts. You remember Peanut- and her parents sleeping under a shower curtain in the mobile home in her last time

The Filou now has 3 litterboxes for himself.

I just think of you and Max.