In Defense of Aggressive Dogs...

[bckrazy]

I couldn't agree more, Sophie.

Honestly, I read and re-read all of the posts in this thread... and I don't find your posts to be close-minded, at all. I agree with your comment about the crazed, blood-thirsty dog Koko was talking about. It could easily be a case of high prey drive and/or a dog who is accutely sensitive to fast movements. Is a Husky who kills a cat an aggressive dog? The story also seems strange because dog-aggression, livestock/animal-aggression, and human-aggression are very different. A DA dog could be the least HA dog in the world, or vice versa. Gonzo is incredibly sensitive to movements, whether it's livestock, another dog, a person, a car, a balloon, etc. Of course, he doesn't have prey drive. He has herding drive, which is modified prey drive. Desensitizing him to stimulus and working on re-directing his focus has helped a lot, but I would never trust him alone in stimulating situations. Either way, ANY dog who is allowed free reign of a neighborhood should not be blamed for ANYTHING they do. Their owners should be banned from ever owning dogs for that kind of idiocy.

It is incredibly rare to find a dog who truly bites unprovoked. What people don't understand is that every single dog, even their sweet old Lab/Golden/etc, has the propensity to bite and WILL bite if they are pushed far enough. Some dogs have a fuse a mile long and some a millisecond. In almost any case, that fuse can be stretched out with regular, positive, fairly easy training and good management. I don't think that most people do understand a dog's body language, to be honest. Things like yawning, licking, cowering, turning away, earset, tailset and hard stares are often completely ignored or misunderstood. I have noticed that all of the people I know who have been bitten before by dogs have been bitten more than once, and my dogs are never fans of them. Some people naturally get it, but some people seem to think that dogs and people have the same way of communicating non-verbally. Dogs who do bite "unprovoked" are more than likely dogs who have been trained by their owners, unintentionally, to show no warnings and to bite first and ask questions later. Dogs who are alpha rolled, pinned, smacked, and punished for growling are often the only dogs who learn to resort to biting without a warning and without giving the bitee any time to correct what they're doing to bother the dog. In the end I feel that except for in rare cases, most aggression is caused by people, whether unwittingly or ignorantly or accidentally or even intentionally (through unscrupulous breeding, or for breeding towards aggression in the case of bully breeds and guardian breeds)... and it can be (and should be) eased and managed by people.

I completely agree that each dog is an individual, and just because a dog is aggressive/reactive/what have you does not make them any less worthy of life than any other dog. My reactive/fearful dog happens to also be the most loving, devoted, obedient companion that the rest of my family and I could ever ask for. But I suppose he should be euthanized because he doesn't adore everything and everyone. When people say that dogs who have issues should be PTS, because there are plenty of friendly, aloof dogs in the world, it really bothers me. My dog with issues is irreplaceable. Ultimately, if you as an owner educate yourself and take every step necessary to keep others and your dog safe, I do believe that nearly every single aggressive dog can be helped and can be kept safely.

[Seravieve]

Ultimately, if you as an owner educate yourself and take every step necessary to keep others and your dog safe, I do believe that nearly every single aggressive dog can be helped and can be kept safely.

That's what we're trying to do with Bunny. She's definitely dog aggressive, and has a prey drive... for the squirrels and birds. She's also VERY territorial and we've come to decided that she's leash reactive as well.

We do our best to keep her happy and safe. I know its a touchy subject, but we've used some of CM's instructions with her and its really helped. She wears a backpack on walks and is MUCH better about not chasing cars because she's doing a job. She came from Animal Control as a stray, so who knows whats happened in her life before us. We are honest about her issues and control her accordingly. She is definitely able to lead a happy life while being separated from strange dogs (ie no dog parks, Petsmart trips, etc).

Each dog is different, and while there may be some who can be controlled with different methods, there are some who cannot. It also depends on the willingness of the owners too. =)

[kokopup]

I was not trying to hijack your thread with my post concerning aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners. I was relating an instance in my recent past where a neighbor had a pit bull that in my opinion she should not have had because of the nature of this dog. I have owned some reactive aggressive dogs in my 69 years. My first dog at 10 was a Chow that was over protective of me and because of that I had to give him up. If my parents had been more knowledgeable about dogs It could have been trained to not be aggressive toward others. I guess to this day I resent having to give up my friend Sandy. I know with proper training any dog can be nonaggressive and even a Pit Bull can be taught to count to 10 before reacting, I have owned a Doberman and German Shepherds that were loving members of my family. One of my Shepherds became so socialized he was useless as even a watch dog. I was in the Navy then and dozens of people walked by my fenced yard daily. She got so used to people they could open the gate and walk in and she just wagged. Sort of like Koko but at least Koko will alarm if someone new comes up.

I know you say that dogs ( in this case a Pit Bull) do not attack humans or animals without provocation. That is true at some level. If an experienced dog behaviorist had been witness to what occurred he would have been at a loss to determine what was the trigger for this aggression. I know there are several factors that are contributors.
You had an owner that did nothing but dump food and water through the chain link fence. You had kids that came to play maybe 2 or 3 times a month. You had no supervision to prevent this dog from roaming at it's own whim. There did not appear to be a consistent pack leader so this dog was on his own. It is fortunate that he was on his own because if he had teamed up with others he could have done no telling what.


When I say unprovoked I am saying no immediate visible trigger. The dog had to travel half a mile, and climb a fence to get to the goats. I'm sure he could smell his pray but there was nothing to stop it from making that half mile scamper. In my mother-in-laws case the dog traveled 1/4 of a mile to charge her hanging cloths. In my case I would never have known what hit me because I was kneeled working on my lawn mower when Koko intervened to turn his attention.

I'm sure in the right hands this dog could have been rehabilitated and maybe made someone a wonderful dog. It takes special skills to properly socialize a highly reactive bred like the Pit Bull. This is true if raised from a pup, but to take on a dog that already has issues is another thing altogether. That is why I said it should be destroyed. It never became an issue with the owner because when she moved she left her dog ,her cat, and a house full of belongings.

I will leave you to your thread now. I don't know that much about the effects of dopamine or serotonin on a dogs behavior.

[Giselle]

Koko, you need not defend your story nor your stance. Once again, I was trying to STOP the speculations regarding whether the dog you encountered was unprovoked or not. That was my intent: to STOP the speculations because we weren't there and we don't know, so we must take your account as is and accept it as you've delineated it thus:

I made that comment to clarify that nobody - especially none of us - can really comment on the dog's state of health or behaviors, so it would be best if we left your encounter as is.

You've indicated that you've felt an unjust offense, and I apologize if you've gotten that negativity from myself or any other comment on here, but I can tell you that my intent was to preserve your story from others' speculations/questionings, as we all will never truly know. Don't know how to clarify that any more.