Courtesy, manners and tradition

[Karen]

Giselle, don't you worry. You were not even born when the "ME" generation term was first applied. It was used to refer to Baby Boomers, I was born just after the Boomers by most counts, so my two elder siblings (we are spread apart in age) are considered "boomers." When I was in college, my mom once said to me, "You know, your age group is far more polite. I had a kid your age open a door for me today, say 'please' and "you're welcome' and I don;t remember the last time one of the "ME" generation did that."

Ma was pretty observant, but of course we were expected to behave properly and be respectful to people regardless of what was expected of our peers. I remember my neighbor's parents telling me I should call them "Ken" and "Nancy" but I just couldn't! They were my friend's parents! It was just too weird, so I still called them "Mrs. ***" and "Mr. ***" and they got used to it.

I, on the other hand, still smile internally when someone calls me Ma'am - I have to remember that time has indeed gone by, and I am as old as their parents, often!

I am now more flexible. If I knew your name was Mary Jones, and you asked me to call you Ms. Jones, instead of Mary, for example, I would. And vice versa. I only corrected the little kids next door when I moved here, because they knew my aunt's last name, so they'd call me Mrs. B***** too, so I'd say, "No, my last name is Watts, but you can call me Karen if that's easier." Trying to explain that Mrs. B****** was my Great Aunt on my mother's side, and we both changed our past names when we got married, so never had a last name in common, she was my grandmother's sister, and Grandma changed Her last name when she married ... that was a little much for a 5-year-old (the oldest of them) to grasp.

[Giselle]

Ah, didn't know the exact time frames, but that's good to know!

Of course, one can be a friend, and a close one at that, with somebody whom one refers to by a title. But to me and my peers, the ability to call somebody by their first name means that you have achieved a certain level of intimacy, which is why I and my peers enjoy/prefer being on first-name-terms with many of our adult peers and companions (who, as I explained before, exist OUTSIDE of school and work and similar professional areas).

I just really fail to see how it's disrespectful to enjoy and to seek being on such intimate terms with a person. Like I said before, my neighbors and other such adults have always introduced themselves by their first names. That signals to me that they desire to be called by their first names, and I hardly see how it would be disrespectful, then, to address them without a title.

[RICHARD]

As a representative of the "ME" generation, I have to speak up.

There are too many points to hit, so I'll hit the one that I think really epitomizes the cultural shift (shall we call it a paradigm shift? Only time will tell...)

RE: Titles of Ms./Mr./etc.

- I don't use titles. So shoot me. I don't use titles not because I am deliberately rude but because I believe titles preclude a relationship to hierarchal structures of subordinate vs. dominant. Although you (the elder generation) may not see it that way, this is how my generation has come to view titles. We see them as stuffy, static, and unnecessary. I call adults by their first names because I believe that it brings us into a more meaningful rapport. We are equals. We are human. We learn from each other. I call them by their first names. They call me by mine. I refuse to be limited by my age or societal norms. It may seem chaotic to you, but to me and my generation, it is a sign of our liberation, of our responsibilities, of our dignity. When we call elders by their first name, we do so because we respect them as our friends, our companions, our PEERS. Yes, peers. Gone are the days when professors lectured you, the subordinate student. Gone are the days of incontrovertible submission.

Institutions of higher level education now view their students as invaluable as the professors themselves. Certain colleges, for example, are now restructuring their schools so that students MUST, at some point, "bump" into a professor during their studies and build a relationship of mutual learning. This is the "ME" generation. We are not deliberately rude. We have simply been taught that everybody is equal, that certain social constructs (as history has taught us) deserve to be questioned, that human dignity is to be respected - even the dignity of a child or teenager. We have been taught equality - that it surpasses the limitations of economic status, race, gender, and, YES, age.

That is why I so fondly call you all on PT by your first names.

Dude,

I would have saved time and just said, "I choose not to".

That generation didn't change any of the Societal/Heirarchal/Paradigm anything.

IT was all ignored because it was all in response to the Question Authority/Don't trust anyone over 40 mantra.

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When some snob I address as Mr/Mrs or Miss jumps all over my arse about it-I tell them I was raised to be respectful. That will usually shoot them off the horse they rode in on.

I elevate people by addressing them with a title because, even tho I am an equal, I choose to show them a modicum of respect and dignity.



Oh, Did I use Modicum?

[pomtzu]

Hmmmm....... Some very interesting posts since I left last night.

And speaking of the term "ma'am" - that brings to mind another issue of using that term. Early on in my business career, I attended a seminar, in which phone etiquette was addressed. It is considered NOT polite to use this term when speaking to a woman on the phone, especially since you probably don't know her age, and even tho you may think you're being polite, "ma'am" denotes a woman of age, and she could be offended by the implication. On the other hand, referring to a man as "sir" is more acceptable. Talk about double standards!

And then there is my big pet peeve - being called "dear", or "hon", or "sweetie" by a total stranger - such as a store clerk. They may think they're being friendly, but to me, they are being extremely rude. I see red when this happens! And unfortunately, it is usually the middle to older age group of folks who take this liberty. Shame on them - they should know better!

[Twisterdog]

And then there is my big pet peeve - being called "dear", or "hon", or "sweetie" by a total stranger - such as a store clerk.

This used to bother me too, but I gave up. For some reason, the vast majority of my customers call me these things, all the time. Silly, but at least nice, I suppose. Far better than them calling me other names!

Karen ... and I always thought the "Me" generation was the people growing up in the 70's? Or was that the "Me" decade?

I'm a member of the mysterious "Generation X" ... I remember when we in high school and college, every newspaper and magazine article you read about us was sure we were a bunch of worthless slackers, headed to hell in a handbasket and taking the country with us. Hmmm ... seems we weren't the spawn of Satan afterall, and now we seem like the old fuddy duddies. As it is with every generation, from the beginning of time until the end.

Time marches on ... time marches on

[Randi]

Addressing people is even more complicated in Denmark. In the old days, everyone said:

Herr = Mr.
Fru = Madam = Ma'am I guess
Froeken = Miss

We also had Du = you (informal) for friends/family, and De = you (formal) for strangers/collegues/in shops etc.

Then, sometime during the 70ties, it was decided that everyone should say Du. I found it very weird to begin with, and especially when writing to someone official or sending a job application. Once you sit in front of people, it's easier. In that situation, everyone will say Du these days, and I find it natural now.

If someone in a street says Ma'am to me, I really do feel old.

[Cataholic]

Maybe I am one of the few, but, I do not object to the term 'honey', 'sugar', etc. If they were meaning to be rude, the term would start with another letter of the alphabet, closer to the beginning.

I guess we all have our peculiarities. I dislike titles, don't want anyone to call me by my professional title, and if it is going to be a 'relationship', I like to get first names on the table promptly. My reasoning is similar to Giselle's and I would guess I am old enough to be her mommy.

In college, we called ALL professors by their first name. All of them. That was what they wanted/professed to want, anyhow. That was in the mid 80s. In the latter 80s I began my career with an insurance company. The boss made everyone, but me, call him by his last name. He was branch manager, I was an adjuster( the only position considered psuedo-management, other than the other manager)...he made all the inside 'girls' call him Mr. That was totally about submissiveness, and maybe peculiar to his ate-up personality. The other manager in the office had people call him by his first name. I will share with you, at least in that office, the relationships the men had with their workers was very different- people got along well with the first name guy. Again, that could be just personality styles.

Today, the women I work with have finally accepted my wishes to be called J over the loud speaker, not Ms. H. It peeved me. Do they respect me any less? No. (it is debatable they respect me at all). I don't like formality. I am kind of an 'insta-friend' with people, and that can be difficult for others to deal with....but, it is me.

ES- I would call you whatever you wished to be called, as long as you fed me.

[pomtzu]

Maybe I am one of the few, but, I do not object to the term 'honey', 'sugar', etc. If they were meaning to be rude, the term would start with another letter of the alphabet, closer to the beginning.

IMO - using those terms of endearment to address a total stranger is not at all appropriate. It implies an intimate knowledge (no-not of a sexual nature!) of this person. My family and close friends can call me that - and I welcome it - but a total stranger has no business using those terms with me. I'd rather be called "ma-am" - after all - I do fit in that implied old age category! LOL

[Cataholic]

IMO - using those terms of endearment to address a total stranger is not at all appropriate. It implies an intimate knowledge (no-not of a sexual nature!) of this person.

And, that is what makes us so special and unique! It bothers me not at all. Some of my older clients- both genders- call me that. Maybe cause my first name is so difficult to pronouce? LOL.

[Edwina's Secretary]

It's not about "I want this my way, so I'm going to do to you however I want". It's about respecting a person enough so that you see him or her as a friend and companion. To the "Me" generation, Mr/Ms.-Whoever is impersonal, as if there is something to be hidden. First names are intimate. I ask folks if I can call them by their first names because I want to seek that level of intimacy in our relationships. It's NOT disrespectful. It's exactly the opposite. It's about knowing and interacting with somebody on a more personal, profound level.

I am not interested in knowing everyone on a profound and intimate level.

I am not interested in being friends and companions with everyone I meet.

And what you are saying is the same thing the It generation said, the Boomers, The Bloomers the Xs and every other generation that came before you.

It is a way of finding yourself and rebelling and having been one myself...I should give you that.

[shepgirl]

Guess I'm just stuck in the old fashioned upbringing I had. I still call people MR. MRS. or Sir. If these people become close friends by all means we do call each other by our first names but otherwise I would become tongue tied calling people older than myself by their first names. And I also don't like being called dearie, honey or sweetheart by clerks or other stranfers. It just makes me squirm. Guess we all have our preferences, just the way I was raised I guess. A bit straight laced maybe but I raised my kids the same way. I've known some colleages for ages and we are close but I still refer to them as Mr. or Mrs. because they are older and more experienced than I am .

[pomtzu]

And, that is what makes us so special and unique!

Exactly!!! What a dull world this would be if we were all from the same mold!

[sasvermont]

Hmmmm, I will pause the next time I call someone deary or sweetheart, but it won't stop me! I usually pick the name to fit the situation and person. I can't control myself sometimes. I would never have thought that someone would think ill of me if I called them deary etc. etc. To each his own! I think endearment is nice! I would love to think that I had endeared myself to someone.....and imagine it to be a complete stranger! I am a happy go lucky type of person in many ways and will continue on with it!

Would it be better to call the others (strangers) - dude or dudette? Just kidding. Isn't it funny how different a take we have on things in life? And isn't it nice that we can all talk about junk like this and still get along!!!

Don't laugh, I call a close friend of mine dudette. I won't and cannot tell you what she calls me!!!!

[pomtzu]

I would love to think that I had endeared myself to someone.....and imagine it to be a complete stranger!

But.............
Just think. That person calling you dear or hon, is probably calling everyone else the same! That's not a very endearing thought IMO. Just take a look at those in line behind you at the checkout sometime - not always of the dear or hon class. LOL

[Catlady711]

aI'm a member of the mysterious "Generation X" ... I remember when we in high school and college, every newspaper and magazine article you read about us was sure we were a bunch of worthless slackers, headed to hell in a handbasket and taking the country with us. Hmmm ... seems we weren't the spawn of Satan afterall, and now we seem like the old fuddy duddies. As it is with every generation, from the beginning of time until the end.

This is where I think it comes down to part parenting and part society in general.

If you think about it, Baby Boomers raised the Gen. X crowd which many, as you say, complained they were slackers. Gen. X rised the Gen. Y crowd which is apparently having the same complaints.

In each succesive generation, no matter which one, or how far back you go, always complains about the lack of respect and work ethic of the previous generation, the generation that in fact raised them.

For a new group of youngsters to rebell they have to take it one step further than the generation before them, or it's not rebelling. And each generation will complain about the generations after them.

Kinda a vicious circle with no way to stop it or turn it back.