Courtesy, manners and tradition

[Twisterdog]

LOL ... speaking of dressing up vs. dressing down ....

I own one black dress. I wear it funerals. Period. (Obviously I dressed differently when I had a "real" job.)

My grandmother, OTOH, never once in her 99 years, wore a pair of pants. She wore a dress, silk nylons with a garter belt (never panty hose), high heeled dress shoes, a brooch and pearl necklace, every day of her life.

No. Thank. You. I might look like a slob compared to her, but I know I'm way more comfortable.

[shepgirl]

Can't remember when we've had such a great discussion about something worthwhile.
I must have grown up in the same era as Medussa and Pomtzu because as I read Medussa's post I had to pinch myself to make sure I didn't write it.
From the dress code to the Mr. and Mrs. there was't one thing we did different when I was growing up. My dad was a miner and my mom a school teacher but she taught only after we were in school ourselves. She was still the mom who made meals, laundry, baking and cleaning. We didn't ever need for anything but the one thing I remember is that most kids had more things than we did. I think my mom being raised without much and going through the depression made her want to instill a sense of values in us to teach us one had to earn what one got.
I do remember that when we went someplace we knew better than to misbehave, we knew the consequences of bad or rude behaviour and for some reason we respected that.
I do miss that old world where people were respectful and helpful. I remember thinking our son was too strict with his children but now that they are growing up I see he was right and I was just being a granny.
Must say some teens today do surprise me with their good behaviour though. I've run into teens that looked like they would knock me over but to my surprise they offered me help with doors and such in a courteous and kind manner.

[Giselle]

As a representative of the "ME" generation, I have to speak up.

There are too many points to hit, so I'll hit the one that I think really epitomizes the cultural shift (shall we call it a paradigm shift? Only time will tell...)

RE: Titles of Ms./Mr./etc.

- I don't use titles. So shoot me. I don't use titles not because I am deliberately rude but because I believe titles preclude a relationship to hierarchal structures of subordinate vs. dominant. Although you (the elder generation) may not see it that way, this is how my generation has come to view titles. We see them as stuffy, static, and unnecessary. I call adults by their first names because I believe that it brings us into a more meaningful rapport. We are equals. We are human. We learn from each other. I call them by their first names. They call me by mine. I refuse to be limited by my age or societal norms. It may seem chaotic to you, but to me and my generation, it is a sign of our liberation, of our responsibilities, of our dignity. When we call elders by their first name, we do so because we respect them as our friends, our companions, our PEERS. Yes, peers. Gone are the days when professors lectured you, the subordinate student. Gone are the days of incontrovertible submission.

Institutions of higher level education now view their students as invaluable as the professors themselves. Certain colleges, for example, are now restructuring their schools so that students MUST, at some point, "bump" into a professor during their studies and build a relationship of mutual learning. This is the "ME" generation. We are not deliberately rude. We have simply been taught that everybody is equal, that certain social constructs (as history has taught us) deserve to be questioned, that human dignity is to be respected - even the dignity of a child or teenager. We have been taught equality - that it surpasses the limitations of economic status, race, gender, and, YES, age.

That is why I so fondly call you all on PT by your first names.

[Edwina's Secretary]

As a representative of the "ME" generation, I have to speak up.

There are too many points to hit, so I'll hit the one that I think really epitomizes the cultural shift (shall we call it a paradigm shift? Only time will tell...)

RE: Titles of Ms./Mr./etc.

- I don't use titles. So shoot me. I don't use titles not because I am deliberately rude but because I believe titles preclude a relationship to hierarchal structures of subordinate vs. dominant. Although you (the elder generation) may not see it that way, this is how my generation has come to view titles. We see them as stuffy, static, and unnecessary. I call adults by their first names because I believe that it brings us into a more meaningful rapport. We are equals. We are human. We learn from each other. I call them by their first names. They call me by mine. I refuse to be limited by my age or societal norms. It may seem chaotic to you, but to me and my generation, it is a sign of our liberation, of our responsibilities, of our dignity. When we call elders by their first name, we do so because we respect them as our friends, our companions, our PEERS. Yes, peers. Gone are the days when professors lectured you, the subordinate student. Gone are the days of incontrovertible submission.

Institutions of higher level education now view their students as invaluable as the professors themselves. Certain colleges, for example, are now restructuring their schools so that students MUST, at some point, "bump" into a professor during their studies and build a relationship of mutual learning. This is the "ME" generation. We are not deliberately rude. We have simply been taught that everybody is equal, that certain social constructs (as history has taught us) deserve to be questioned, that human dignity is to be respected - even the dignity of a child or teenager. We have been taught equality - that it surpasses the limitations of economic status, race, gender, and, YES, age.

That is why I so fondly call you all on PT by your first names.

How sad. Many cultures do still have a respect for elders.

I am curious though...you call all your teachers by their first name? You call your parents by their first names? And your grandparents? And when you go to the doctor your call him/her by first name?

It has nothing to do with equality. It has to do with respect. It has to do with what I want to be called. Is THAT not as important as your freedom to call me anything you want? Or is it....all about what you want? just all about you?

[caseysmom]

I have met Giselle, a more respectful young lady you will never meet.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I have met Giselle, a more respectful young lady you will never meet.

And if I said to her I want to be called Ms. Whatever...would she respect my wishes?

[caseysmom]

I can't speak for her but I wouldn't

[Twisterdog]

How sad. Many cultures do still have a respect for elders.

I am curious though...you call all your teachers by their first name? You call your parents by their first names? And your grandparents? And when you go to the doctor your call him/her by first name?

It has nothing to do with equality. It has to do with respect. It has to do with what I want to be called. Is THAT not as important as your freedom to call me anything you want? Or is it....all about what you want?

I agree. And, seeing as I grew up in the 70's and 80's, am I a member of the "ME" generation?

Calling someone "Mrs. Jones" does not make you submissive. It simply reflects that this person deserves some respect for the 70 or 80 years of life experience she has.

If someone asks me to address him as "John", I certainly will. Otherwise, I will call him Mr. Smith. Not because I think he's better than me ... I'm not that insecure ... but because I don't know him well.

I don't think it has much to do with age at all. My mother is almost 80 years old, and addresses her few remaining elders respectfully. I am forty, and do the same.

I prefer not to be called "Ma'am", it makes me feel old. My mom likes to be called "Grandma" ... by every child she meets. My dad thought a lot of people who called him "Sir" when they met him. I agree, it is up the person being addressed to determine what they are called.

[Catlady711]

As a representative of the "ME" generation, I have to speak up.

I believe titles preclude a relationship to hierarchal structures of subordinate vs. dominant....
We see them as stuffy, static, and unnecessary....

We are equals....

I refuse to be limited by my age or societal norms....

Gone are the days when professors lectured you, the subordinate student. Gone are the days of incontrovertible submission.

We have simply been taught that everybody is equal, that certain social constructs (as history has taught us) deserve to be questioned.... We have been taught equality - that it surpasses the limitations of economic status, race, gender, and, YES, age.

What those parts say to me (in a broad sense) is 'I'll do what I want, be submissive to no one for any reason, and question anyone in authority'. That's how I take those statements, no matter how polite, nice or sweet you may actually be in other areas.

[caseysmom]

What those parts say to me (in a broad sense) is 'I'll do what I want, be submissive to no one for any reason, and question anyone in authority'. That's how I take those statements, no matter how polite, nice or sweet you may actually be in other areas.

I would be willing to go out on a limb here and guess that giselle has never been in any kind of trouble at school...so this is a little off base.

[Catlady711]

I would be willing to go out on a limb here and guess that giselle has never been in any kind of trouble at school...so this is a little off base.

It's obvious that you are a good friend to her and like her very much which is great. However I never said she was in any, or caused trouble, in school or out. I was simply responding in a general way with how I take her general views on her generation. There is nothing 'off base' about it.

[caseysmom]

It's obvious that you are a good friend to her and like her very much which is great. However I never said she was in any, or caused trouble, in school or out. I was simply responding in a general way with how I take her general views on her generation. There is nothing 'off base' about it.

Actually we have met once but I have read her posts for years. In comparison to Giselle in years I am a lot older but in maturity and intellect she is my equal...or actually she is brighter than I am for sure.

[RICHARD]

As a representative of the "ME" generation, I have to speak up.

There are too many points to hit, so I'll hit the one that I think really epitomizes the cultural shift (shall we call it a paradigm shift? Only time will tell...)

RE: Titles of Ms./Mr./etc.

- I don't use titles. So shoot me. I don't use titles not because I am deliberately rude but because I believe titles preclude a relationship to hierarchal structures of subordinate vs. dominant. Although you (the elder generation) may not see it that way, this is how my generation has come to view titles. We see them as stuffy, static, and unnecessary. I call adults by their first names because I believe that it brings us into a more meaningful rapport. We are equals. We are human. We learn from each other. I call them by their first names. They call me by mine. I refuse to be limited by my age or societal norms. It may seem chaotic to you, but to me and my generation, it is a sign of our liberation, of our responsibilities, of our dignity. When we call elders by their first name, we do so because we respect them as our friends, our companions, our PEERS. Yes, peers. Gone are the days when professors lectured you, the subordinate student. Gone are the days of incontrovertible submission.

Institutions of higher level education now view their students as invaluable as the professors themselves. Certain colleges, for example, are now restructuring their schools so that students MUST, at some point, "bump" into a professor during their studies and build a relationship of mutual learning. This is the "ME" generation. We are not deliberately rude. We have simply been taught that everybody is equal, that certain social constructs (as history has taught us) deserve to be questioned, that human dignity is to be respected - even the dignity of a child or teenager. We have been taught equality - that it surpasses the limitations of economic status, race, gender, and, YES, age.

That is why I so fondly call you all on PT by your first names.

Dude,

I would have saved time and just said, "I choose not to".

That generation didn't change any of the Societal/Heirarchal/Paradigm anything.

IT was all ignored because it was all in response to the Question Authority/Don't trust anyone over 40 mantra.

------------------


When some snob I address as Mr/Mrs or Miss jumps all over my arse about it-I tell them I was raised to be respectful. That will usually shoot them off the horse they rode in on.

I elevate people by addressing them with a title because, even tho I am an equal, I choose to show them a modicum of respect and dignity.



Oh, Did I use Modicum?

[pomtzu]

Hmmmm....... Some very interesting posts since I left last night.

And speaking of the term "ma'am" - that brings to mind another issue of using that term. Early on in my business career, I attended a seminar, in which phone etiquette was addressed. It is considered NOT polite to use this term when speaking to a woman on the phone, especially since you probably don't know her age, and even tho you may think you're being polite, "ma'am" denotes a woman of age, and she could be offended by the implication. On the other hand, referring to a man as "sir" is more acceptable. Talk about double standards!

And then there is my big pet peeve - being called "dear", or "hon", or "sweetie" by a total stranger - such as a store clerk. They may think they're being friendly, but to me, they are being extremely rude. I see red when this happens! And unfortunately, it is usually the middle to older age group of folks who take this liberty. Shame on them - they should know better!

[Twisterdog]

And then there is my big pet peeve - being called "dear", or "hon", or "sweetie" by a total stranger - such as a store clerk.

This used to bother me too, but I gave up. For some reason, the vast majority of my customers call me these things, all the time. Silly, but at least nice, I suppose. Far better than them calling me other names!

Karen ... and I always thought the "Me" generation was the people growing up in the 70's? Or was that the "Me" decade?

I'm a member of the mysterious "Generation X" ... I remember when we in high school and college, every newspaper and magazine article you read about us was sure we were a bunch of worthless slackers, headed to hell in a handbasket and taking the country with us. Hmmm ... seems we weren't the spawn of Satan afterall, and now we seem like the old fuddy duddies. As it is with every generation, from the beginning of time until the end.

Time marches on ... time marches on