Courtesy, manners and tradition

[Pembroke_Corgi]

Maybe this is not so much of a generational difference as a personal opinion on manners. My mom is about the same age as you- she is turning 60 this year, and I know she feels completely differently on the subject. She attended Catholic school, so of course she had to wear a skirt and blouse to school everyday as her uniform. Even in the dead of winter when there was no doubt an extreme risk of frost bite, which seems to border on the ridiculous (She said that she and her sister would wear pants underneath and change at school. At least her parents had a brain!). Anyway, I'm just pointing out that she came from a similar situation in this respect...I really don't see how wearing a dress makes anyone more polite.

I've seen a lot of home movies from her childhood, and aside from all the waving (obviously the movies don't have any sound) she and her siblings seemed pretty similar to kids now. Smiling, goofing off, that sort of thing. I honestly don't think kids are really any different than the kids of 50 years ago.

In fact, I work in an elementary school and I see normal kids everyday. Yes, there are some bratty kids who could stand to learn some people skills, but by and large the vast majority of children are well behaved, polite, and nice to be around most of the time. Actually, the reason I chose to work with children is that I find them more pleasant to be around the most adults...so I guess I don't understand where you are getting your impressions.

Yes, times have changed but I still think kids (and adults) are basically the same. As I'm sure happened in the past, people will find someone or something to blame- rock 'n roll (my mom was allowed to listen to the Beatles, something they didn't approve of at her school), tv, violent video games, or bad parents.

[Medusa]

[QUOTE=Pembroke_Corgi;2113586I really don't see how wearing a dress makes anyone more polite.[/QUOTE]

It didn't make them more polite. The title of the thread also has the word "tradition" in it. It was traditional for girls to wear skirts to school, even in the dead of winter. We had leggings that we wore under our dresses and removed them at school. I didn't mind wearing dresses; I rather liked it actually but then, I was/am a girlie girl. This also wasn't meant to be a discussion about bratty kids vs. normal kids, whatever that means. I don't think I referred to kids as being brats in my comments. As I've stated previously, I don't indulge in name calling. I was referring to the manners, customs and traditions of the 50's vs. those of today.

[Cataholic]

Medusa,
I went back and read the OP, and really, while you might not use the word, "bratty" you really do reference the ways kids behave today.
As is often the case, the OP is just the OP, things take on a life of their own after that.

[Medusa]

Medusa,
I went back and read the OP, and really, while you might not use the word, "bratty" you really do reference the ways kids behave today.
As is often the case, the OP is just the OP, things take on a life of their own after that.

But I did make my point w/out name calling, did I not? If I was to reprimand a child, I would never refer to him/her as a brat but I would definitely make it clear how I felt about their behavior. I feel that I need to reiterate that I don't feel that today's generation is a lost cause and I also don't feel that all kids are ill mannered. As I said, we usually only hear of the bad examples. However, I still think that common courtesy and manners have taken a back seat to an "I'm the center of the Universe" mentality.

[Cataholic]

Yes, you made a point without name calling. The picture painted was still the same, but, no reference to the word brat was contained in your post. That seems really, really significant to you, so, I want to make sure I state that clearly.

It really ties right in to my point about addressing someone by the title, and how it doesn't really convey anything different to me. It is just a word, the respect is behind the action, not the term. Just like your description of the child's behavior was left without a 'label', but, the meaning (brat) was still inferred.

[Medusa]

Yes, you made a point without name calling. The picture painted was still the same, but, no reference to the word brat was contained in your post. That seems really, really significant to you, so, I want to make sure I state that clearly.

It really ties right in to my point about addressing someone by the title, and how it doesn't really convey anything different to me. It is just a word, the respect is behind the action, not the term. Just like your description of the child's behavior was left without a 'label', but, the meaning (brat) was still inferred.

Mr./Mrs./Miss is a title and denotes respectfulness. Brat is a label. Besides, what child are you referring to? I don't recall speaking of one particular child or one particular behavior. I think perhaps I should bone up on my writing and communication skills because I did not want to address children and whether they have or have not changed through the years and I especially was not referring to toddlers. A cranky baby who needs a nap isn't in the same category as a teenager who purposely is disrespectful to adults and even to other teenagers and who should have some manners by that age. I wanted to discuss manners, courtesy and customs. Maybe the word "tradition" was the wrong choice. Customs is a better word. I simply wish to compare how not so few of us were brought up in the 50's as compared to today. I didn't state that one way was better than the other except that I consider the old ways preferable for me, not better.

[sasvermont]

I have been the one chatting about the children and their lack of manners (and called them brats) and wrote about their bad behavior.

I assume we are allowed to go different directions with this topic without getting dressed down. I feel very comfortable saying that all children are not reared the same way - and some - probably many, grow up to be wonderful adults!

I suspect we learn how to be polite, courteous and kind, yes? And that parents play an immense role in how well children adjust in this society.

Times, they are a changing.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I am a volunteer at a local historic site. We give tours for over 40,000 fourth graders each year.

I can tell you MANY things about the behavior of children -- when the parents are not around.

One thing a veteran volunteer told me early on -- is to introduce myself by title Mrs./Ms/Miss not as I had been as Sara.

It has made a tremendous difference. Children know that someone with a title "Ms/Mr." is an authority -- by first name is a friend. When you are trying to control and educate 20 - 25 ten year olds you NEED the authority. (I have had to add a request that the chaperon parents turn off their cell phones to my intro.)

The behavior of the group has nothing to do with economic group - ethnic group - public or private school. Very few of us like to do home school groups though.

Whether it is a good group has to do with the quality of the parents. If they are involved (NOT on the cell phone...NOT disappearing or chatting loudly in the back of the group) and do their job - corraling wanderers - correcting behavior -- it will be a great tour. We will have fun and the kids will learn.

For the most part I enjoy doing the tours but I must say...I do see the "I am the Center of the Universe"/"My Child is the Center of the Universe" more than might be healthy!

[JenBKR]

You make a good point Sara - if you assert yourself as an authority figure from the beginning, even with something as minute as how you are addressed, I think that kids will respond to that. I volunteer at church with the kids two days a week, and I am known as "Miss Jen." It's respectful but familiar at the same time, and *most* of the kids behave well.

Sometimes it's actually the parents who you want to correct. I can imagine you see it all the time. Just out of curiousity, why don't any of you like doing the homeschooled groups?

[Cataholic]

At Jonah's preschool- which is largely a double family unit (except me, he he he), largely caucasian, and more affluent than not (excluding me again, he he) there is a woman that I see nearly 3 times a week. She is dropping off her preschool, and schlepping her infant on her hip (the only term to use is schlep), with her cell phone to her ear. Every time I see her, the phone is there. At first, I thought she had a disesase in which the phone was permanently attached. Later, I realized this wasn't physically possible.

I can see your point, ES, with the title. Those kids ARE strangers to you, and there is no formation of a relationship. My son sees our neighbors all the time (well, in the warm weather). The couple on my one side are probably 10-15 years older than me. They have two grandchildren. I don't remember ever us talking about it, but, everyone is on a first name basis. My other neighbors are generlly younger than me, so, it doesn't seem as significant to them. BUT, if someone asked my son to address them as Mr./Ms...of course, I would honor that. Excluding family, all of my friend's children call me J. ( J, as a joke, will call me 'Mother', which sounds so funny and formal. He knows it makes me laugh, and does it just to get a laugh out of me. )

The Mr/Ms thing is just one of many things I am opinionated on.

[sasvermont]

Hey, I think you all have good thoughts on manners, tradition and courtesy. I enjoy adult like discussions like this!

I would never have made my niece call me Aunt Sallyanne.....even though she refers to me as her Aunt. I am sure that upsets my Mom - since she (my Mom) made me call my Aunts....Aunt whatever. See. This is how it has happened. I love my Aunts but could never call them by their first name, but then won't allow my niece to call me Aunt. Go figure! I mean that I demanded my niece to NOT call me Aunt, not just suggested!

Yesterday, while at work, a little girl stopped at the counter/register, waited until I noticed her, and VERY sweetly, asked if she could use our bathroom/toilet. It is the store policy to refuse such use. I couldn't believe how polite and sweet she was, and hey, guess what? her Mom was just as sweet. One may guess that I agreed to break the rules and walked her back to the toilet. She was maybe 6 at the most. She did not look as though she came from the upper crust of society - by any means. She was sweet, polite, easy to understand and direct. She thanked me several times as did her Mom. I, in turn treated her like royalty. She received a couple of free items and I gave her a Canadian dollar I had in my pocket. I told her how polite she was and how much fun it was to have her in the store........
On the other hand, at other times, there are kids that come in the door and destroy the place, while their Mom and/or Dad is doing their own thing. It drives me crazy. For the sake of requesting the kids behave in a considerate civilized fashion.

Being courteous and mannerly means you will probably be thinking about others as well as yourself, when dealing with the public. Yes? I think we may have stumbled on something. It's the "I am the center of the universe" thing. The ME generation(s). I hope it will change to the US generation.

[pomtzu]

It didn't make them more polite. The title of the thread also has the word "tradition" in it. I was referring to the manners, customs and traditions of the 50's vs. those of today.

And that was my understanding of the point you were making!

People tend to read between the lines, or have selective reading, and in doing so, get defensive. I've seen a lot of this in other threads also. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and who can say who is right and who is wrong. IMO, there is no right or wrong, just folks voicing their views, and they should not be criticized for it.
And again, I feel that is just plain, old, common courtesy, and we as adults, should practice it.

[Cataholic]

And that was my understanding of the point you were making!

People tend to read between the lines, or have selective reading, and in doing so, get defensive. I've seen a lot of this in other threads also. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and who can say who is right and who is wrong. IMO, there is no right or wrong, just folks voicing their views, and they should not be criticized for it.
And again, I feel that is just plain, old, common courtesy, and we as adults, should practice it.

While I do realize this will come across as antagonistic, and I truly do not mean it this way, can you see how your above assertions can be read as critical? You indicate that people read between the lines (not a "good" trait") and have selective reading (again, not one we typically use as praise), and than say that all you (and I think you are putting Medusa in there, too) are doing is voicing your opinions.

I will only speak for myself, I simply do not feel the same way you do. I don't think I am right or you are wrong. I simply do not feel the same way. I don't think I am critizing you, just debating your points.

[pomtzu]

While I do realize this will come across as antagonistic, and I truly do not mean it this way, can you see how your above assertions can be read as critical? You indicate that people read between the lines (not a "good" trait") and have selective reading (again, not one we typically use as praise), and than say that all you (and I think you are putting Medusa in there, too) are doing is voicing your opinions.

I will only speak for myself, I simply do not feel the same way you do. I don't think I am right or you are wrong. I simply do not feel the same way. I don't think I am critizing you, just debating your points.

I see your point, but as I said - it's my opinion, and I am not taking offense to your statement! And I would never implicate anyone else in a statement of my beliefs. Sorry if it came across that way.

[JenBKR]

Yes, there are some bratty kids who could stand to learn some people skills, but by and large the vast majority of children are well behaved, polite, and nice to be around most of the time.

I agree with you on this. I think that the problem is that there are those bratty kids, and they stand out more than the well behaved ones, giving all kids a bad name.

I will say that when I visit family in the south, I do notice more manners. Kids say sir and mam and are taught manners in school. Some of it is nice to see...but they call their parents sir and mam too. I don't think I would want that for my kids, to that extent.