Why did you vote for Obama or not...?

[blue]

Didn't want to make this a huge homework project on my part!

Way to make your case.

[caseysmom]

Way to make your case.

So take my last sentence after I did quite a bit of research and take it out of context, you are really not an intellectual debater....where is Lady's Human when I need a mature person to debate. At least he sticks to the facts.

[blue]

So take my last sentence after I did quite a bit of research and take it out of context, you are really not an intellectual debater....where is Lady's Human when I need a mature person to debate. At least he sticks to the facts.

You did not back up anything you said, so again you did not make your case against Marigolds cut and paste.

Point 1, is not a CNN transcript, where is FAIR wrong or taken out of context?

Point 2, if you copied and pasted the link you would find it is not invalid. Now tell me how that was taken out of context.

Point 3, is the same link as Point 2. Im sure you can show how it was taken out of context a second time.

Since Im sure you are going to point out where CNN was taken out of context for us Im going to skip those and concede the PDF downloads as well.

Im too beat to copy and paste the sources for Point 13 to check its validity.

Point 14 is the only link that is not valid.

ETA:

crickets...chirp chirp like I thought...out for the night.

Sorry I was looking at the links you said were invalid.

Since only 1 link returned an error, how did you come up with the claim that 5 are invalid?

[caseysmom]

You did not back up anything you said, so again you did not make your case against Marigolds cut and paste.

Point 1, is not a CNN transcript, where is FAIR wrong or taken out of context?

Point 2, if you copied and pasted the link you would find it is not invalid. Now tell me how that was taken out of context.

Point 3, is the same link as Point 2. Im sure you can show how it was taken out of context a second time.

Since Im sure you are going to point out where CNN was taken out of context for us Im going to skip those and concede the PDF downloads as well.

Im too beat to copy and paste the sources for Point 13 to check its validity.

Point 14 is the only link that is not valid.

ETA:


Sorry I was looking at the links you said were invalid.

Since only 1 link returned an error, how did you come up with the claim that 5 are invalid?

Point 1, Marigolds states the 11 to 22 billion is for illegal immigrants. The article states this is due to all immigration, once again an incorrect quote.

point 2 and 3, the costs she states are cost overall, not just illegal immigration, did you read the article further to read the clarification, if its too hard I will copy and paste it:

A Complex Fiscal Picture
Welfare use. Our findings show that many of the preconceived notions about the fiscal impact of illegal households turn out to be inaccurate. In terms of welfare use, receipt of cash assistance programs tends to be very low, while Medicaid use, though significant, is still less than for other households. Only use of food assistance programs is significantly higher than that of the rest of the population. Also, contrary to the perceptions that illegal aliens don't pay payroll taxes, we estimate that more than half of illegals work "on the books." On average, illegal households pay more than $4,200 a year in all forms of federal taxes. Unfortunately, they impose costs of $6,950 per household.



Social Security and Medicare. Although we find that the net effect of illegal households is negative at the federal level, the same is not true for Social Security and Medicare. We estimate that illegal households create a combined net benefit for these two programs in excess of $7 billion a year, accounting for about 4 percent of the total annual surplus in these two programs. However, they create a net deficit of $17.4 billion in the rest of the budget, for a total net loss of $10.4 billion. Nonetheless, their impact on Social Security and Medicare is unambiguously positive. Of course, if the Social Security totalization agreement with Mexico signed in June goes into effect, allowing illegals to collect Social Security, these calculations would change.





Carole, I am really sorry about this thread but all of Marigold's instances are just wrong.

[blue]

Carol, sorry for my part in this highjack.

And Casseysmom, Marigold didnt type anything, that was a cut and paste. You could have played nice by pointing out how the links were taken out of context, but you chose not to for reasons we can only speculate.

[caseysmom]

Carol, sorry for my part in this highjack.

And Casseysmom, Marigold didnt type anything, that was a cut and paste. You could have played nice by pointing out how the links were taken out of context, but you chose not to for reasons we can only speculate.

Marigold did not do this research herself. She cut and pasted the whole thing, the 14 things off of the internet. This whole thing is all over the internet by folks trying to spread mistruths. She should research these things before spreading them.

I don't play nice with bigots, I stand up to them.

[blue]

Marigold did not do this research herself. She cut and pasted the whole thing, the 14 things off of the internet. This whole thing is all over the internet by folks trying to spread mistruths. She should research these things before spreading them.

I don't play nice with bigots, I stand up to them.

You would have done a better job of making your stand by showwing the lack of context the 14 points tried to make, you chose not to, but instead targetted Marigold and then myself.

Illegal immigration is another issue why I couldnt vote for either canidate.

ES's argument only holds water for illegals who have illegally obtained SSCs and not those that work under the table.

[caseysmom]

Way to make your case.

Way to deflect the whole thing so you have to do NO work and show me NO valid points, very mature.

[caseysmom]

crickets...chirp chirp like I thought...out for the night.

[blue]

crickets...chirp chirp like I thought...out for the night.

I can wait till next evening for your response. I may have ADD but I have learned patience.

[Marigold2]

Boy you guys really get upset about this. I looked up a ton of links on immigration because all of my family is from Europe. English isn't even my first language.
Perhaps everyone could look up their own links and stop name calling. The only reason I posted this is because of all the name calling being thrown at me. I only mentioned the Mexicans because it is easier for them to sneek over here then any other people and because there are more of them then any other. If any one can show a couple or even one postive outcome of them coming here please post that. This is after all a global world and what effects us effects people in every land on this earth. No man is an island.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Way to deflect the whole thing so you have to do NO work and show me NO valid points, very mature.

You want a valid point? Try this one.

How much do these illegal immigrants PAY in taxes? Why is that not cited? When they work state and local taxes are deducted from their paychecks. FICA - social security they will never be able to collect - is dedcuted from their paychecks. When they shop they pay sales tax.

For any of this to have any validity or logic -- that must be included. How much do they add to the economy -- value from the strawberries they pick and the toilets they clean?

This is one-sided. Let's hear the other half of the equation.

Oh and Marigold.....when you say something as ugly and offensive as "drop a kid" about anyone -- what do you expect?

[carole]

can we please get back to the original topic thank you.

Please Marigold can you choose your words more wisely, there are ways of saying things and getting your point across without offending other Pters, thank you.