Vote Here!

[caseysmom]

Our proposition 2 passed by an overwhelming majority, this was to give farm animals, namely chickens room to turn and stretch their wings.

[Puckstop31]

Our proposition 2 passed by an overwhelming majority, this was to give farm animals, namely chickens room to turn and stretch their wings.

Cool... But no complaining about more expensive chicken products, OR that your chicken breast sandwich is so tough. LOL

[-Pickle-]

It looks like prop 8 has passed Well popcornbird can rest assured that gay people will be gay no longer

They're never going to hear the end of this.

*snarl* I'm so glad I'm leaving this state

Im glad for you too.


Somebody get me a plane! Im going to staple a rainbow flag to my face and handcuff myself to someone in Californias gate!

[caseysmom]

Cool... But no complaining about more expensive chicken products, OR that your chicken breast sandwich is so tough. LOL

I currently only buy free range so I may not see a big jump but if I do I am willing to eat it...figuratively. I didn't vote yes blindly I realize its going to be hard on the farmers, a local dairy just went under and it is very sad but for me it was the right thing to do.

[Puckstop31]

I currently only buy free range so I may not see a big jump but if I do I am willing to eat it...figuratively. I didn't vote yes blindly I realize its going to be hard on the farmers, a local dairy just went under and it is very sad but for me it was the right thing to do.

I was just messing with ya in my first responce.

Also, in case you don't know... Lord willing, I am going to be a dairy farmer (again, sorta) soon. As I age, I am drawn more and more to my roots. Honestly, I so yearn for the day when I can go to work 7 days a week on my farm.

Do you know why the dairy went under by chance? Was it just a dairy or did he have his own land to grow feed?

[caseysmom]

I was just messing with ya in my first responce.

Also, in case you don't know... Lord willing, I am going to be a dairy farmer (again, sorta) soon. As I age, I am drawn more and more to my roots. Honestly, I so yearn for the day when I can go to work 7 days a week on my farm.

Do you know why the dairy went under by chance? Was it just a dairy or did he have his own land to grow feed?

Not really sure they interviewed the daughter, it is crystal, has been around since I was a kid. I think they couldn't compete with the big guys. My sister buys most of her meat from the 4h and her husband use to do a lot of hunting, he hasn't done much anymore but that was how they got most of their meat before. I really would rather eat meat that was hunted than bought in the store.

I didn't know you wanted to have a dairy, that is really cool and would be a great way of life, I wish you lots of luck.

[Puckstop31]

I think they couldn't compete with the big guys.

Then they must have had to buy feed and silage, rather than growing their own. I can imagine this is going to be an issue for a lot of California dairys... Last I checked corn was still in the $8 a bushel area. That is tough on a small farm in California. Grain land is expensive there.

My sister buys most of her meat from the 4h and her husband use to do a lot of hunting, he hasn't done much anymore but that was how they got most of their meat before. I really would rather eat meat that was hunted than bought in the store.

Amen!!

I didn't know you wanted to have a dairy, that is really cool and would be a great way of life, I wish you lots of luck.

Thanks. The guy I am going to start it with is the real brains of the operation. He has a 90 head dairy right now, but it is difficult to expand where we are. Crop land can cost well over $5000 or more an acre. We are looking at a few places in the ND,SD,MN area. ND is the most promising, as land can be had for $900 an acre or less. The only issue there is a short season, which is good and bad... Depending on the crop.

[Suki Wingy]

Well, I'm not happy that CA's prop 8 passed.

[JenBKR]

I'm sorry to hear that prop 8 passed. I'm not going to lie, I used to have some of the same views on this as popcornbird, though not to the same extent. Although we are different religions (I am Christian, she is Muslim) we sometimes share similiar views. However, in recent years, I have been changing my mind on a lot of things. Who am I to judge? Why shouldn't gay/lesbians be allowed the same rights? They are still people that God created and loves IMO. Had it been an option for me, I would have voted against prop 8.

[caseysmom]

I'm sorry to hear that prop 8 passed. I'm not going to lie, I used to have some of the same views on this as popcornbird, though not to the same extent. Although we are different religions (I am Christian, she is Muslim) we sometimes share similiar views. However, in recent years, I have been changing my mind on a lot of things. Who am I to judge? Why shouldn't gay/lesbians be allowed the same rights? They are still people that God created and loves IMO. Had it been an option for me, I would have voted against prop 8.

Well the way I look at it if they want to be an a monogomous relationship more power to them who am I to tell them they can't.

[JenBKR]

Well the way I look at it if they want to be an a monogomous relationship more power to them who am I to tell them they can't.

I agree - monogomy should be a positive thing, regardless of who is in the relationship.

[popcornbird]

I'm thrilled. This election has been wonderful. Obama won. California voters passed Prop 8. I officially lost 10 pounds this month. (LOL) So yes, I am thrilled...about many things at the same time. This also goes to say, the majority of California believes marriage is between man and woman, as does the entire nation (the fact that gay marriage is illegal in every state besides Massachusettes is clear proof of what the majority in America wants and believes in). No need to fight or scream or pass lawsuits. The people have spoken...TWICE...and it is clear what California believes in.

For those of you who wish to leave California because of this...I guess Massachusetts is the only option, because the other states are only stronger against gay marriages than California.

For those of you who commented on my kids (or future kids), I can only say that I intend to be a loving, caring, compassionate parent, who will teach her children right from wrong and wrong from right, who will try to instill in them good moral values, respect for others, and most importantly, I will try my best to raise them up as strong Believers in God Almighty. I intend to make it clear to my children that life is not a fantasy or storybook. In life, we do NOT always get everything we want. In life, we do not always get to have what we want, be with whom we want, or live in a situation that we want. It does not only apply to this issue. Life is not a fantasy. Reality is different from what we imagine, and for those of us who are young, we realize it quickly once we get married and start living as responsible adults in the real world, with all burdens of life on our shoulders. Everything in life is not possible, and everything in life is not acceptable.

Imagine if someone falls in love with another person, and loves that person to the point that he/she cannot imagine life without him/her. Now get this. The person who she considers the 'love of her life'...the person she dreams of, the person she wants to commit to is already married. Can she marry him? NO! Can she be with him? No. Can she live the rest of her life with him? No. Why? Because it isn't going to happen. Somethings are wrong, and we need to learn to accept that. Sometimes marrying the person you 'love' isn't the right choice. Sometimes people destroy their lives by marrying the person they fell in love with, and married JUST because they loved that person. Love, while a serious factor in marriage, is NOT the only bases of a union.

I am a person who is strongly against discrimination in any form. I cannot tolerate people who discriminate against people who are black because they are black, nor can I stand people who discriminate against whites because they are white. I cannot stand people who differentiate between the rich and poor. I am not an advocate of discrimination...nor is anyone else who voted yes to prop 8. I just don't believe ANYONE is supposed to marry the same sex. People who call themselves gay CAN marry. No one is preventing them from finding the love of their life in the opposite gender. If they have the right body parts (male or female), then they can marry people of the opposite sex, just like everyone else does. Like I have said before, and I know I will make some of you laugh by saying this, but you cannot make a computer work by plugging its plug into a plug. It just won't work. Try as hard as you might...that computer of your's will never turn on, will never function, will never help you in any way. Now get an outlet for the plug, and the computer will be functioning great in no time.

Men and women are like that. They are made to 'fit' into each other. That's the way our bodies are made, and that includes the bodies of people who call themselves gay. The action that men and women do together is impossible for people of the same sex to do together. This is why I say it is unnatural. It is. If it wasn't, then they would fit into each other perfectly, just like a man and a woman, but they don't...and a FACT: they never will. When a man and woman are married and have a child together, that child is a part of both of them. That child is made out of a part of his father, and a part of his mother. The development of a child is very, very beautiful. It is impossible for any 'gay couple' to have a child of their own, together, a child that is a part of both of them. Truly, it is impossible. If they get a sperm donor, the daddy is an unknown, and the other partner has nothing to do with the child. They can never have a child of their OWN.

There is a purpose of two genders. There is a purpose of a mother and a father. Kids need both, and while some children in certain situations don't get to live with both, the ideal situation is that a child has both mom and dad. Moms and dads are not exactly the same. Now don't even try to tell me we're in the 21st century, and there's no difference in a mom and a dad in this day and age. There is. Find me one father who can successfully nurse his newborn, and then tell me you found one that's the same. They are not the same. Without insemenation, there can be no baby. Without a womb, there can be no baby. Love makes babies..and babies are born in families, into marriages. Besides, right now, in the 21st century, gay marriage is illegal in almost every country in the world. This includes our own. That should tell you something. Most human beings that exist in the 21st century, believe and KNOW that marriage is only between a man and a woman. Its that simple.

I don't deny that people can have feelings for each other, nor do I judge people for having feelings of affection for other human beings. I don't, and never had a problem with people of the same gender holding hands, or giving each other little kisses (NOTE: I do not mean romantic/french kissing here). In fact, for me, it is completely normal to see guys, friends holding hands and walking. That isn't a 'gay' thing. That is just affection for someone you care about. The problem I have is when people ACT on their feelings in a lustful manner. The problem is when it becomes sexual. Sexual behavior is not always acceptable. Homosexuality comes in that category. So does incest...hence, my reasoning for comparing the two together. Both are immoral types of sexual behavior. Fight with me all you will....the majority of the world agrees with me on this. Your arguments won't make a difference.

Before I finish off typing and go to attend the soup cooking on my stove, I'd like to address Pickle's 'we have a creationist amongst us' comment. Oh wow...like everyone on PT is a non-believer. I have been a member of PT for many, many years (my estimate is 6 years but I'm not sure), and know many religious people here, as well as people who are not that religious, but most definitely believe in God and the fact that He Created us. As far as I know, most, or a very large number of people on PT believe in God, and rightly so. I cannot imagine that things have changed here to the extent that everyone has changed their ways and beliefs. We did not all fall out of the sky. I'm not even going to get into that debate right now because you will end up getting lectured, and I'm not in the mood for that right now, but seriously...if you have a problem with people who believe in God, something is seriously wrong with you.

For those of you who say we are not God...who are we to judge? Absolutely. The whole reason we judge is because God has already judged. It is GOD who told us of the sin of sodomy, and it is GOD who told us about the nation of Prophet Lot and their sin of homosexuality. God's Word. God's judgement. Not mine. Not anyone else's. God's. If God created them that way, then God would not have spoken against them, but He did, which means, their actions are actions that anger God. Once again, I know we're not God. This is God's judgement, and I will stand by the side that God stands by. (And no, this is not only in the Bible, but in pretty much every religious book, in pretty much every main religion).

[Catty1]

This relates to Christian parents, but I think it applies to any parents of faith who face what other parents do. Long - but please read it carefully.

http://www.hhproject.org/articles/christiangayteen

Others:
http://titration.blogspot.com/2007/0...ents-with.html

10 Tips for Christian Parents with Gay Children
http://www.newlife.com/article.asp?id=111

One point of view on the "biblical proof" that being gay is wrong, written by Pastor John, who worked as a Christian Pastor
http://allfaith.com/Grace/

[-Pickle-]

I'm thrilled. This election has been wonderful. Obama won. California voters passed Prop 8. I officially lost 10 pounds this month. (LOL) So yes, I am thrilled...about many things at the same time. This also goes to say, the majority of California believes marriage is between man and woman, as does the entire nation (the fact that gay marriage is illegal in every state besides Massachusettes is clear proof of what the majority in America wants and believes in). No need to fight or scream or pass lawsuits. The people have spoken...TWICE...and it is clear what California believes in.

You just never cease do you.
Conneticut just legalised Gay marriage.
a quote from a very inspirational (bisexual) woman I know called Lofn.

In light of the current tragedy (when more than 1800 couples have the government end their marriages because of popular opinion concerning their genitals, I call it a damned tragedy), I want you to know that I thank you for your support in protecting marriage for all, and I urge you not to lose hope. We're still fighting. There is a petition going out to overturn the amendment, and according to a friend of mine, there are still votes to be counted, so we may still have a chance.

It may be discouraging, but don't let it crush you. Thank you for standing with us. We'll make it someday.

1800 people. Their union before God destroyed because of people like you that are close minded enough, to deny them the rights that they once had. Can you even have the grace to imagine how that feels to them?

For those of you who wish to leave California because of this...I guess Massachusetts is the only option, because the other states are only stronger against gay marriages than California.

-cough- Conneticut.

For those of you who commented on my kids (or future kids), I can only say that I intend to be a loving, caring, compassionate parent, who will teach her children right from wrong and wrong from right, who will try to instill in them good moral values, respect for others, and most importantly, I will try my best to raise them up as strong Believers in God Almighty.

Discrimination is wrong- thats what proposition 8 is. and you just voted yes. Way to be a hipocrite.

I intend to make it clear to my children that life is not a fantasy or storybook. In life, we do NOT always get everything we want. In life, we do not always get to have what we want, be with whom we want, or live in a situation that we want. It does not only apply to this issue. Life is not a fantasy. Reality is different from what we imagine, and for those of us who are young, we realize it quickly once we get married and start living as responsible adults in the real world, with all burdens of life on our shoulders. Everything in life is not possible, and everything in life is not acceptable.

Not everybody wants to get married. You say it like its something that has to happen otherwise the world will end because someone hasnt made a union. Now people want to get married, and you turn around and tell them oh no you cant do that its unnatural. So are spectacles, alot of modern medicines, plastic... yet we still use those day to day. for the procreation arguement, If everybody in the world was heterosexual and procreated, the population would explode to the point of resources stretching over their limit, no one would have enough and the whole world would be screwed.

Imagine if someone falls in love with another person, and loves that person to the point that he/she cannot imagine life without him/her. Now get this. The person who she considers the 'love of her life'...the person she dreams of, the person she wants to commit to is already married. Can she marry him? NO! Can she be with him? No. Can she live the rest of her life with him? No. Why? Because it isn't going to happen. Somethings are wrong, and we need to learn to accept that. Sometimes marrying the person you 'love' isn't the right choice. Sometimes people destroy their lives by marrying the person they fell in love with, and married JUST because they loved that person. Love, while a serious factor in marriage, is NOT the only bases of a union.

Sexuality & monogamy are different things Ma'am.

I am a person who is strongly against discrimination in any form.

you clearly arent though. your discriminating against couples and people based on whats in their pants or whos in their bed.

I cannot tolerate people who discriminate against people who are black because they are black, nor can I stand people who discriminate against whites because they are white. I cannot stand people who differentiate between the rich and poor. I am not an advocate of discrimination...nor is anyone else who voted yes to prop 8. I just don't believe ANYONE is supposed to marry the same sex. People who call themselves gay CAN marry. No one is preventing them from finding the love of their life in the opposite gender. If they have the right body parts (male or female), then they can marry people of the opposite sex, just like everyone else does. Like I have said before, and I know I will make some of you laugh by saying this, but you cannot make a computer work by plugging its plug into a plug. It just won't work. Try as hard as you might...that computer of your's will never turn on, will never function, will never help you in any way. Now get an outlet for the plug, and the computer will be functioning great in no time.

Good grief what on earth are you on! 'No one is stopping them from finding the love of their life in the opposite sex'.
Let me go back to basics for you.

Heterosexual: Romantically, Sexually, emotionally attracted to the opposite gender.
Homosexual: Romantically, Sexually, Emotionally attracted to the same Gender.
Bisexual: Romantically, Sexually, Emotionally attracted to both the same and opposite gender.

What you said is very Insulting. Homosexuals do not love the opposite gender in that way. Heterosexuals do not love the same gender in that way.

Men and women are like that. They are made to 'fit' into each other. That's the way our bodies are made, and that includes the bodies of people who call themselves gay. The action that men and women do together is impossible for people of the same sex to do together. This is why I say it is unnatural. It is. If it wasn't, then they would fit into each other perfectly, just like a man and a woman, but they don't...and a FACT: they never will. When a man and woman are married and have a child together, that child is a part of both of them. That child is made out of a part of his father, and a part of his mother. The development of a child is very, very beautiful. It is impossible for any 'gay couple' to have a child of their own, together, a child that is a part of both of them. Truly, it is impossible. If they get a sperm donor, the daddy is an unknown, and the other partner has nothing to do with the child. They can never have a child of their OWN.

Infertile couples can never have a child of their own either. Does that mean that they should not be allowed to marry? and how many children do you think there are in america and the world at whole that dont know who their father is?

There is a purpose of two genders. There is a purpose of a mother and a father. Kids need both, and while some children in certain situations don't get to live with both, the ideal situation is that a child has both mom and dad. Moms and dads are not exactly the same. Now don't even try to tell me we're in the 21st century, and there's no difference in a mom and a dad in this day and age. There is. Find me one father who can successfully nurse his newborn, and then tell me you found one that's the same. They are not the same. Without insemenation, there can be no baby. Without a womb, there can be no baby. Love makes babies..and babies are born in families, into marriages. Besides, right now, in the 21st century, gay marriage is illegal in almost every country in the world. This includes our own. That should tell you something. Most human beings that exist in the 21st century, believe and KNOW that marriage is only between a man and a woman. Its that simple.

I was raised the majority without my father. I'm fine. Im not the only one either.
No, sex makes babies. You seem to be under the impression that without marriage none of this can happen, which either demonstrates that you didnt pay attention in sex education class or are under some kind of ignorance that most people would die for. Did you know america has some of the highest teenage pregnancies in the world?
Im not even going to go into the divorce rate.

I don't deny that people can have feelings for each other, nor do I judge people for having feelings of affection for other human beings. I don't, and never had a problem with people of the same gender holding hands, or giving each other little kisses (NOTE: I do not mean romantic/french kissing here). In fact, for me, it is completely normal to see guys, friends holding hands and walking. That isn't a 'gay' thing. That is just affection for someone you care about. The problem I have is when people ACT on their feelings in a lustful manner. The problem is when it becomes sexual. Sexual behavior is not always acceptable. Homosexuality comes in that category. So does incest...hence, my reasoning for comparing the two together. Both are immoral types of sexual behavior. Fight with me all you will....the majority of the world agrees with me on this. Your arguments won't make a difference.

homosexual.

Before I finish off typing and go to attend the soup cooking on my stove, I'd like to address Pickle's 'we have a creationist amongst us' comment. Oh wow...like everyone on PT is a non-believer. I have been a member of PT for many, many years (my estimate is 6 years but I'm not sure), and know many religious people here, as well as people who are not that religious, but most definitely believe in God and the fact that He Created us. As far as I know, most, or a very large number of people on PT believe in God, and rightly so. I cannot imagine that things have changed here to the extent that everyone has changed their ways and beliefs. We did not all fall out of the sky. I'm not even going to get into that debate right now because you will end up getting lectured, and I'm not in the mood for that right now, but seriously...if you have a problem with people who believe in God, something is seriously wrong with you.

I have no problem with people that believe in God but the creationist arguement is flawed. You say things like Incest is wrong, but If every human came from adam and eve, then their children must have procreated, and so on. So if that was true, you're related to everyone. You cant marry because your related to everyone. Gay or Straight.

For those of you who say we are not God...who are we to judge? Absolutely. The whole reason we judge is because God has already judged. It is GOD who told us of the sin of sodomy, and it is GOD who told us about the nation of Prophet Lot and their sin of homosexuality. God's Word. God's judgement. Not mine. Not anyone else's. God's. If God created them that way, then God would not have spoken against them, but He did, which means, their actions are actions that anger God. Once again, I know we're not God. This is God's judgement, and I will stand by the side that God stands by. (And no, this is not only in the Bible, but in pretty much every religious book, in pretty much every main religion).

Sodomy was a sin in the 1500s. incase you hadnt noticed, its 2008. The bible preaches that god made and loves everyone. Besides the fact that there is no proof that God even exists, the bible is full of incorrect information. Do you eat pork or shellfish? Leviticus says that is an abomination to you.
The whole reason we judge is because we agree or disagree. I read the bible in my christian primary school, and pondered it until last year. I've come to the conclusion, that the holy books contradict themselves and are not to be listened to in my life. My opinion is, that instead of looking to the ceiling for answers I'll go find them myself.
If there is a God (and to be honest, I doubt it) I, and the thousands of other LGBT people will answer for ourselves regarding who we love. I dont need a book to explain my actions- I just need a book to write them in for future reference.




Oh and for your and like minded peoples information-
Obama disagrees with proposition 8, calling it discriminatory.