Unitarian church shootings

[sparks19]

I tend to see points to both sides of the gun arguments.. But I think a lot of the problem lies in how much more violent and unstable people seem to be. I know some of it could be a case of we see it more because it's reported more, but it just seems to me there are a lot of people snapping and going on rampages these days compared to when I was younger. We could take squirt guns to school and no one would think anything of it. Now it can have serious repercussions.

This article I just saw tonight doesn't involve a gun but is just as shocking, if not more to me. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3896502

OMG

that is just ... disturbing.

What makes KIDS do things like that and over a girl?

I don't care how young they are they are very very sick and I hope they spend the rest of their lives confined.

WOW

[Lady's Human]

How many rounds have you shot downhill in California, during high fire danger and during an epic drought? I live on the edge of Camp Pendleton and I can tell you there are frequent brush fires there from target practice.

I don't do long distance reading comprehension instruction, Sara.

As I said in my other post, I have never seen target shooting start fires EXCEPT FOR TRACERS WHICH ARE NORMALLY MILITARY USE ONLY.

[Cataholic]

Well, the chances of you being murdered by a person with a firearm are WAY, WAY lower than that of being killed by a drunk driver. Yet, I bet you don't fear my 'right' to drive.

Actually, if you are drinking and getting behind the wheel of the car, I DO fear your "right" to drive. (Driving is actually a privilege in the US, and not a "right"). And, I take the necessary precautions in that fashion- I avoid the streets during what seems to be a high probability time for OVIs- holidays and weekend nights.

That example doesn't exactly fit with the topic much, anyhow. Many, if not most, of us require a car. That same thing can't be said of carrying a gun.

Finally, I love my family too much to put their safety into anyone's hands but my own. You are free to choose otherwise, but it would be wrong for YOU to make that choice for me.

What exactly happened in a city that caused you to need to pull your weapon? I can't imagine carrying a weapon with a child.

I love my family in a similar fashion, I can assure you, and feel the same way- I don't want YOU to make the choice for ME, either. It is an argument that works both ways.

[Puckstop31]

What exactly happened in a city that caused you to need to pull your weapon? I can't imagine carrying a weapon with a child.

It was about 12 years ago, when I lived in Florida. So this was before we had our child. Still, now that I have a child, it is even more important for me to be able to protect them.

As for not imagining carry a weapon with a child, that just proves you are a hoplophobe. Nothing wrong with that, but it just means you do not understand what it means to be a RESPONSIBLE gun owner. I was raised with them. From a very early age my father taught me that they are not toys and to respect them for what they are. I was taught how to SAFELY handle, operate and maintain them. I plan on doing the same with Hannah.

If you make them not a taboo thing, take away the curiosity... Perhaps if you educated yourself a little about firearms, you might be a little less apprehensive about them. I mean, it is the first thing I do when I don't understand somerthing, I try to educate myself about it first.

I love my family in a similar fashion, I can assure you, and feel the same way- I don't want YOU to make the choice for ME, either. It is an argument that works both ways.

Thats the thing. You DO have the CHOICE to not own a firearm. But I am pretty sure you would advocate to take away my choice, no, my RIGHT to own them. Now, my owning a firearm is in NO way a threat to you. Unless of course you ever posed a threat to me.

It is a shame that law abiding Americans cannot trust other law abiding Americans and assume good before evil.

"No free man should ever be denied the use of arms. If for no other reason than to defend himself from tyranny of government."
Thomas Jefferson

Finally, let me make one thing abundantly clear. I pray without ceasing that I will never have to use my weapons to protect myself or my family. But I will be damned before I put my and my families safety into anybody's hands but my own. That is not a matter of trust, as I know we have generally excellent law enforcement here. The issue is they are 99.9% likely to NOT be there at the moment I need them.

[Cataholic]

Why does not agreeing with someone mean I don't understand something? I am reasonably intelligent, and have an ability to comprehend- even if I don't support- someone's opinion.

I am a HUGE breastfeeding advocate. Does that mean everyone that doesn't support MY position is ignorant about the benefits of breastfeeding? That they are wrong, or, a bad parent if they don't follow a child-led approach to weaning? No, it means they don't support my position, that they feel differently.

I don't like guns (as much as one can affix a human emotion to an inanimate object). I don't agree with hunting, I don't agree with carrying a weapon, I don't agree with your interpretation of the 2nd amendment...that doesn't mean I don't understand, though.

[Puckstop31]

Why does not agreeing with someone mean I don't understand something? I am reasonably intelligent, and have an ability to comprehend- even if I don't support- someone's opinion.

I am a HUGE breastfeeding advocate. Does that mean everyone that doesn't support MY position is ignorant about the benefits of breastfeeding? That they are wrong, or, a bad parent if they don't follow a child-led approach to weaning? No, it means they don't support my position, that they feel differently.

I don't like guns (as much as one can affix a human emotion to an inanimate object). I don't agree with hunting, I don't agree with carrying a weapon, I don't agree with your interpretation of the 2nd amendment...that doesn't mean I don't understand, though.

Fair nuff'. I see your point. So, I suppose you do not have to agree with those things. Just understand that I am a HUGE advocate of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. When you really research it, the intent of the Founders was and is crystal clear.

So, while it is perfectly fine for you to feel the way you do, the 2nd Amendment IS the law of the land. And, as the recent Supreme Court decision has said, it is a individual right. So, I would prefer if you not try to impose your will upon we law abiding gun owners. Just as I strive to live my life in a way where I do not impose my will on you.

Instead of gun control.... How about we focus on CRIMINAL control?

We could get into hunting and how controlled hunting is actually a good way to keep animal populations healthy... Or how hunting groups do more to preserve habitat and maintain healthy animal populations than PETA or the USHS could ever dream of... I am sure that is WAY outside of the scope of this discussion.

[Cataholic]

So, while it is perfectly fine for you to feel the way you do, the 2nd Amendment IS the law of the land. And, as the recent Supreme Court decision has said, it is a individual right. So, I would prefer if you not try to impose your will upon we law abiding gun owners. Just as I strive to live my life in a way where I do not impose my will on you.

It is the law of the land...and there has been, in the past, other laws that were challenged and sucessfully overturned because of people with differing opinions.

So, while I will respect your will, I cannot agree to not challenge the law, your will, my neighbor's will, etc, by voicing my opposing opinion.

A lemming I am not. And, I recognize that about you, too.

[Puckstop31]

It is the law of the land...and there has been, in the past, other laws that were challenged and sucessfully overturned because of people with differing opinions.

So, while I will respect your will, I cannot agree to not challenge the law, your will, my neighbor's will, etc, by voicing my opposing opinion.

A lemming I am not. And, I recognize that about you, too.

I would almost welcome an attempt to "repeal" the 2nd Amendment. Perhaps we could, once and for all, be done with it. One way or the other...

I say this because there are simply WAY too many gun owners who would not stand for it. It would quite literally, IMHO, spark another revolution/civil war.

As a side note, I would like to thank you for keeping this civil. Most of the time when I debate this topic, it gets ugly and I get called names. LOL

[Cataholic]

As a side note, I would like to thank you for keeping this civil. Most of the time when I debate this topic, it gets ugly and I get called names. LOL

The only name I can think to call you is "Annie" as in "Annie get your gun".

[smokey the elder]

I am really tempted to deep-six this thread...mainly because it is starting an internet WWIII among people I think of as friends.

[Cataholic]

I am really tempted to deep-six this thread...mainly because it is starting an internet WWIII among people I think of as friends.

Do you know the origin of that phrase?

[RICHARD]

How many rounds have you shot downhill in California, during high fire danger and during an epic drought? I live on the edge of Camp Pendleton and I can tell you there are frequent brush fires there from target practice.

Camp Pendleton has their own fire department (Marines) and the ranges are in isolated areas that have many firebreaks around the perimeter.

I have been in many areas -Texas Canyon, San Fransiquito Canyon and some areas in the Angeles Nat'l. Forest when shooting was legal. My dad's club used to hold many shooting competitions where there were 20-30 guys shooting thousands of rounds and never ran into any problems with fires.

IN all the years that I have live out here in Cah Lee Fun Nee Ah that is the second time I have heard of a fire being started by a shooter. Usually the AHs get lost and light a FOREST FIRE so they can be seen.

The comps were held in all kinds of conditions and the Forestry Dept never had a problem with them. It is the Bobo who gets a hold of some illegal ammo or makes a stupid move that cause a problem like fires, poaching or shooting themselves or someone else.


Get out and shoot a few thousand rounds like my dad and his kids did here in Southern CA.

[sparks19]

The only name I can think to call you is "Annie" as in "Annie get your gun".

OMG lmao

sorry I know my post has no point but I really had to chuckle at that.

When he walks through the door tonight I think that is going to be the first phrase to come to mind. lol

[RICHARD]

EXCEPT FOR TRACERS WHICH ARE NORMALLY MILITARY USE ONLY.

I think you need to apologize-You are incorrect.

There is a light blue Mercury Tracer parked in the driveway at this moment. It was driven privately for years.

[Grace]

I am really tempted to deep-six this thread...mainly because it is starting an internet WWIII among people I think of as friends.

Interesting - I don't get that impression at all. I think it's quite civil - so far.