Unitarian church shootings

[smokey the elder]

Getting back to the point...I don't want to argue the merits of the 2nd Amendment. There are valid points on both sides of the argument. The point is this is an example of man's inhumanity to man, and if the guy did not have a gun, and had so much hate, he'd use a bomb, a knife or a crossbow to kill people.

[sparks19]

Getting back to the point...I don't want to argue the merits of the 2nd Amendment. There are valid points on both sides of the argument. The point is this is an example of man's inhumanity to man, and if the guy did not have a gun, and had so much hate, he'd use a bomb, a knife or a crossbow to kill people.

Agreed.

it doesn't matter the means... what matters is that this HAPPENS at all. How can someone HATE so much that they would just take the lives of innocent people without blinking.

[Cataholic]

Getting back to the point...I don't want to argue the merits of the 2nd Amendment. There are valid points on both sides of the argument. The point is this is an example of man's inhumanity to man, and if the guy did not have a gun, and had so much hate, he'd use a bomb, a knife or a crossbow to kill people.

Ah...the second amendment. Kind of like a shield, then a weapon, all at the same time, depending on who is arguing the point.

I think that the problem IS man's inhumanity to man, and that includes my opinion that people that kill (leaving aside self defense, and perhaps a few other noted exceptions) are mentally unwell to begin with. So, imagine an honest, law-abiding, citizen, trained in weaponry (sic) going off the deep end. It happens. While guns might not be the problem, I don't see too much blunt instrument killing taking place. When is the last time we read about a mass knifing taking place? Or, a mass baseball bat event? Ten people killed with a broom....I guess it could happen, but, it seems that a gun is much more prevalent.

I AM concerned about my neighbor's "right" to carry a gun. His/her "right" has a way to irrevocably influence my family's life, to me, without a justifiable use. A handgun in the city? WhatEVER for?

[Puckstop31]

Ah...the second amendment. Kind of like a shield, then a weapon, all at the same time, depending on who is arguing the point.

I think that the problem IS man's inhumanity to man, and that includes my opinion that people that kill (leaving aside self defense, and perhaps a few other noted exceptions) are mentally unwell to begin with. So, imagine an honest, law-abiding, citizen, trained in weaponry (sic) going off the deep end. It happens. While guns might not be the problem, I don't see too much blunt instrument killing taking place. When is the last time we read about a mass knifing taking place? Or, a mass baseball bat event? Ten people killed with a broom....I guess it could happen, but, it seems that a gun is much more prevalent.

I cannot disagree about the problem being man's inhumanity to itself. We are a imperfect bunch and will always be that way. However, I refuse to believe that more than a very SMALL portion of us are the type who would commit thes unspeakable acts. Which brings me back to my point about judging entire groups based on the very small percentage of people who commit evil acts. I believe VERY strongly in the concept of individual liberty and responsibility. It is a free person's DUTY to strive to take care of themselves. If you place the responsibility for your well being into another's hand, well, you take a risk.

Read up on violence in the UK. They pretty much banned almost all firearms. So it turns to knives. Next, watch them ban knives. It turns to sticks and stones.

So why 'punish' the VASt majority of responsible people for the acts of a very, very few?

I AM concerned about my neighbor's "right" to carry a gun. His/her "right" has a way to irrevocably influence my family's life, to me, without a justifiable use. A handgun in the city? WhatEVER for?

Well, the chances of you being murdered by a person with a firearm are WAY, WAY lower than that of being killed by a drunk driver. Yet, I bet you don't fear my 'right' to drive.

I do understand the concept of hoplophobia, which you obviously have. It is the duty of me and my fellow responsible gun owners to behave in a manner which might help alleviate that fear. It is also too bad you very rarely hear about the c. 2.5 MILLION violent crimes that are prevented every year by a law abiding gun owner. A vast majority of those situations are defused with out even having to fire the weapon.

A handgun in the city? The only time I ever needed to use a weapon to protect myself was in a city. All I did was produce it and off he ran.

Finally, I love my family too much to put their safety into anyone's hands but my own. You are free to choose otherwise, but it would be wrong for YOU to make that choice for me.

[Cataholic]

Well, the chances of you being murdered by a person with a firearm are WAY, WAY lower than that of being killed by a drunk driver. Yet, I bet you don't fear my 'right' to drive.

Actually, if you are drinking and getting behind the wheel of the car, I DO fear your "right" to drive. (Driving is actually a privilege in the US, and not a "right"). And, I take the necessary precautions in that fashion- I avoid the streets during what seems to be a high probability time for OVIs- holidays and weekend nights.

That example doesn't exactly fit with the topic much, anyhow. Many, if not most, of us require a car. That same thing can't be said of carrying a gun.

Finally, I love my family too much to put their safety into anyone's hands but my own. You are free to choose otherwise, but it would be wrong for YOU to make that choice for me.

What exactly happened in a city that caused you to need to pull your weapon? I can't imagine carrying a weapon with a child.

I love my family in a similar fashion, I can assure you, and feel the same way- I don't want YOU to make the choice for ME, either. It is an argument that works both ways.

[Puckstop31]

What exactly happened in a city that caused you to need to pull your weapon? I can't imagine carrying a weapon with a child.

It was about 12 years ago, when I lived in Florida. So this was before we had our child. Still, now that I have a child, it is even more important for me to be able to protect them.

As for not imagining carry a weapon with a child, that just proves you are a hoplophobe. Nothing wrong with that, but it just means you do not understand what it means to be a RESPONSIBLE gun owner. I was raised with them. From a very early age my father taught me that they are not toys and to respect them for what they are. I was taught how to SAFELY handle, operate and maintain them. I plan on doing the same with Hannah.

If you make them not a taboo thing, take away the curiosity... Perhaps if you educated yourself a little about firearms, you might be a little less apprehensive about them. I mean, it is the first thing I do when I don't understand somerthing, I try to educate myself about it first.

I love my family in a similar fashion, I can assure you, and feel the same way- I don't want YOU to make the choice for ME, either. It is an argument that works both ways.

Thats the thing. You DO have the CHOICE to not own a firearm. But I am pretty sure you would advocate to take away my choice, no, my RIGHT to own them. Now, my owning a firearm is in NO way a threat to you. Unless of course you ever posed a threat to me.

It is a shame that law abiding Americans cannot trust other law abiding Americans and assume good before evil.

"No free man should ever be denied the use of arms. If for no other reason than to defend himself from tyranny of government."
Thomas Jefferson

Finally, let me make one thing abundantly clear. I pray without ceasing that I will never have to use my weapons to protect myself or my family. But I will be damned before I put my and my families safety into anybody's hands but my own. That is not a matter of trust, as I know we have generally excellent law enforcement here. The issue is they are 99.9% likely to NOT be there at the moment I need them.

[Cataholic]

Why does not agreeing with someone mean I don't understand something? I am reasonably intelligent, and have an ability to comprehend- even if I don't support- someone's opinion.

I am a HUGE breastfeeding advocate. Does that mean everyone that doesn't support MY position is ignorant about the benefits of breastfeeding? That they are wrong, or, a bad parent if they don't follow a child-led approach to weaning? No, it means they don't support my position, that they feel differently.

I don't like guns (as much as one can affix a human emotion to an inanimate object). I don't agree with hunting, I don't agree with carrying a weapon, I don't agree with your interpretation of the 2nd amendment...that doesn't mean I don't understand, though.

[Puckstop31]

Why does not agreeing with someone mean I don't understand something? I am reasonably intelligent, and have an ability to comprehend- even if I don't support- someone's opinion.

I am a HUGE breastfeeding advocate. Does that mean everyone that doesn't support MY position is ignorant about the benefits of breastfeeding? That they are wrong, or, a bad parent if they don't follow a child-led approach to weaning? No, it means they don't support my position, that they feel differently.

I don't like guns (as much as one can affix a human emotion to an inanimate object). I don't agree with hunting, I don't agree with carrying a weapon, I don't agree with your interpretation of the 2nd amendment...that doesn't mean I don't understand, though.

Fair nuff'. I see your point. So, I suppose you do not have to agree with those things. Just understand that I am a HUGE advocate of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. When you really research it, the intent of the Founders was and is crystal clear.

So, while it is perfectly fine for you to feel the way you do, the 2nd Amendment IS the law of the land. And, as the recent Supreme Court decision has said, it is a individual right. So, I would prefer if you not try to impose your will upon we law abiding gun owners. Just as I strive to live my life in a way where I do not impose my will on you.

Instead of gun control.... How about we focus on CRIMINAL control?

We could get into hunting and how controlled hunting is actually a good way to keep animal populations healthy... Or how hunting groups do more to preserve habitat and maintain healthy animal populations than PETA or the USHS could ever dream of... I am sure that is WAY outside of the scope of this discussion.