Pit bulls??

[CagneyDog]

You know, it seems that a large chunk of people are against BSL when it's in regards to Pit Bulls, but they are more supportive, or more understanding of it when it comes to Labs, Goldens, and other breeds. This really, really bugs me. First of all, the statistics are never accurate, they're more Labs in the world therefore, naturally statistics would show that there is more dog attacks coming from them. Of course they're overbred and such, but you do need to keep the population stuff in mind.

[K9soul]

You know, it seems that a large chunk of people are against BSL when it's in regards to Pit Bulls, but they are more supportive, or more understanding of it when it comes to Labs, Goldens, and other breeds. This really, really bugs me. First of all, the statistics are never accurate, they're more Labs in the world therefore, naturally statistics would show that there is more dog attacks coming from them. Of course they're overbred and such, but you do need to keep the population stuff in mind.

Exactly Lindsey. Labs are currently the #1 most popular breed in the U.S. (at least last time I checked, with goldens close behind). This means:

* A huge market for puppymills and BYBs.
* LOTS of uneducated people in regards to a dog's needs, much less doing breed-specific research, because labs are so popular and supposed to be "perfect."

Those two things combined are recipes for disaster. So yes of course labs will be high on the bite list, high on the surrender list to shelters, high on the list of dogs with behavioral problems, health problems, and so on.

I strongly believe no breed is predisposed towards behavioral problems simply because of its breed alone. The more popular a breed is, the more that breed is likely to be subjected to abuse and poor conditions.

Breeds like rotties and pits are often more abused breeds because of the types of people that are attracted to them. Labs and goldens on the other hand attract a lot of people getting a dog "for the kids" which can be just as bad in some ways.

Anyway.. enough rambling by me for now!

[DrKym]

Well as on old woman I can name off several other breeds ruined for the same reson Popularity
St Bernards (early 70s and again Beethoven)
Cocker Spaniels
Dobermans (Magnum PI)
Toy Poodles (too cute for their own good)
Chihuaha (see above)
GSD ( hearth home and kid dog )
Jack Russells (Frasier)
Staffies (drug trade)
Greyhounds (yes racing is an issue but the huge outcry produced huge amounts BYB)
Maltese (see poodle)
Shiz-zu (see poodle)
The dogs aren't to blame, We are. I wont even go into the husky phenomenon due to the movie 8 below, People don't think they assume (yes I forgot collies thanks poor Lassie) that all dogs of that breed will be THAT dog. Sad but true.

[Suki Wingy]

I felt the most of it with my rescued unilateral fear biter DalmatiAn who happened to have the worst separation anxiety ever. I think she came from the 102 DamatiAns craze. I had people just come up to me at the park and state in a knowledgable voice, "These dogs get nippy around childern, they're really unstable." and then walk away! Maybe because I was at a park with her but for god's sake don't touch her without asking after you told me about my own dog!
Dals are now not even in the top 50, no one wants them anymore, thank GOD (even though that's just a saying to me you don't know how happy I am about that)

[DrKym]

LOL@Suki kind of similar to when people tell me I should retrain Goofy (cocker) as she piddles when frightened? because Lady (another Disney screw up) LOVED people. Goofy does too after she makes the first move but just reaching at her scared her to peeing (usually on my shoe)

[king2005]

Here is my list of bites, attacks, chased (would have attacked if I didn't run), etc....

BC - 6 stitches.. No attack only a single bite. Dog was not PTS, no reason to.

Shar Pi (sp) - 2 got loose & tried to take on all of us at the youth club.. we all had to run inside & close the door.

Collie - Charged me while snarling & showing teeth! I ran like hell.. it was older so it couldn't catch up.

American Pit Bull Terrier - Bit my arm too hard & left huge bruses. It was a accident & when I yelled ouch, I swore the dog was crying he felt so bad.

2 Goldens - Dogs from hell they were. Nearly ripped both my legs off.. luckly they had both my shoes, but they kept thrashing, pulling & trying to go different ways & crossing eachother.. NOT FUN.. this is why I'm scared of them, yes I'll cross the street, because all I can think about are the 2 that attacked me. I have the right to be scared of them! But the BSL is still BS.

Goldens (too many to count & diff times) - All came charging while snarling & showing teeth.. All got a foot to the head & that scared them off.

Jack Russel (2 times same dog)- first he tried to take me on & became a foot ball (I have a fear of charging & snarling dogs & will hurt if not kill them).. second time he tried to attack the OLD wobbly dog I was walking, once again he became a football & he lucky he didn't come back, I was angry & in defence mode to have kill it.

Labs (too many to count) - just bites, nothing major, just hurt like hell.

2 GSD - Charged from behind a house, snarling.. I nearly wet myself.. I scooped up the 60p dog I was walking, she was frozen solid in fear & I ran!!!!

Newfy - Bit my hand a couple times when I went to pet him. I saw this dog all the time & always patted him. Turns out the owners son moved back in & had beated poor boots, so he was scared I was going to hurt him so he bit me. Don't blame him really.


With all this I still don't hate any breed of dog.. Sure I "personally" fear Goldens & wont pet them (unless I have to), but there shouldn't be a BLS on them. The owners of the above just need a kick in the pants & banned from owning dogs.

Heres something about Pit Bulls.. A few weeks ago my landlady was attacked by her boyfriend here in the house. Cyrus (AST) was here & guess what he did?? just guess?? He put his tail between his legs & ran away. He hid by my apt doors in the basement all day (I wasn't home)...

Cyrus also goes to the dog park all the time. Hes wonderfull there & people just love him. Last time I went (it was my first really lol) we brought him into the agility section as no one was in there.. Once we went in there many people followed us. We didn't know them, but they wanted to know more about Cyrus, cause he was a pit bull & was having a blast. They were also very upset that Cyrus had to try to play fetch with a Muzzle on.. stupid BSL laws! More people came in just to watch Cyrus go over the HUGE wall (A shaped).. I would toss the ball over it & He would FLY over it!! It was awesome to watch & even funnier when he ran to the top & was looking down at everyone lol silly boy...

[Love That Collie]

Dear young Wolfsoul you are wrong fighting IS something that can be bred IF the particular pair have that tendency. And yes, Pits are terriers with the strength that unlike a Jack Russell does not possess so with the tendency to hang on for dear life just like you said, "if they let go of that bull they are dead". That's what THEY were bred for and they are, the majority, in the wrong hands now and this is being perpetuated by all the wrong people.

And I did not say that "mixing" 5 generations of good can make an aggressive litter. And yes, you most certainly CAN breed aggressiveness, that's why ethical breeders in any breed will not breed a certain dog to another.

The fear and outlawing of this breed did not just come out of thin air for no apparent reason and one does not have to solely depend on "statistics". The culmination of police reports, hospital records, court filings and insurance claims bear this out and those are not stats they are in black and white and sometimes with color pictures. Why on earth does anyone think this breed is on the vicious dog list? It's sure as heck not because society just picked them out of thin air for no reason. And until society helps clean up this breed and bring up to standard it will not change, the laws will only get harsher for all who love this breed and want the best for it. Nobody at the time said, "Gee, I think we should just start picking on the Pit Bull breed now we don't have anything better to do." It's not because they haven't earned the reputation through bad breeding and falling into the hands of the wrong people. It is a problem and the sooner people stop feeling sorry for them and saying "there, there, poor little misunderstood thing," and start doing something about it the better it will be.

And I never said that ALL were vicious........the majority of them were badly bred and do have that tendency. And the people on these forums who own or even knows someone who owns one are but a tiny, tiny, tiny, percentage of owners in this country. No body singled out this breed arbitrarily.

[DrKym]

THE STATISTICS - FATAL DOG ATTACKS IN THE U.S. FROM 1965 - 2001 *

The study covers 431 documented human fatalities from a dog attack.

Location of Attack
25% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by chained dogs
25% resulted from dogs loose in their yard
23% occurred inside the home
17% resulted from attacks by dogs roaming off their property
10% involved leashed dogs or miscellaneous circumstances

Number of Dogs
68% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by a single dog
32% was the result of a multiple dog attack

Victim Profile
79% of all fatal attacks were on children under the age of 12
12% of the victims were the elderly, aged 65 - 94
9% of the victims were 13 - 64 years old

The age group with the highest number of fatalities were children under the age of 1 year old; accounting for 19% of the deaths due to dog attack. Over 95% of these fatalities occurred when an infant was left unsupervised with a dog(s).

The age group with the second-highest number of fatalities were 2-year-olds; accounting for 11% of the fatalities due to dog attack. Over 87% of these fatalities occurred when the 2-year-old child was left unsupervised with a dog(s) or the child wandered off to the location of the dog(s).

Boys aged 1 - 12 years old were 2.5 times more likely to be the victim of a fatal dog attack than girls of the same age.

Breeds Involved
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%), Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).

Reproductive Status of Dogs
Overwhelmingly, the dogs involved in fatal dog attacks were unaltered males.
From 2000-2001 there were 41 fatal dog attacks. Of these, 28 were attacks by a single dog and 13 fatalities were caused by multiple dogs.

Of the 28 single dogs responsible for a fatal attack between 2000-2001;
26 were males and 2 were females. Of the 26 males, 21 were found to be intact (the reproductive status of the remaining 5 males dogs could not be determined).

States with the Most Fatalities - 1965-2001
California, 47; Texas, 32; Alaska, 26; Florida, 22; New York, 19; Michigan, 18; Illinois, 18; North Carolina, 17; Georgia, 16.

While at times informative, statistics on fatal dog attacks can also be misleading. For example, a number of cases were a Pit Bull, Rottweiler or GSD were counted as causing a human fatality were in reality the direct result of gross human negligence or criminal intent (i.e. discarding a newborn in the yard where the dogs were kept, or cases of extremely emaciated animals, or cases were the dog was ordered or encouraged to attack the victim).

This study was conducted not to determine which breeds of dogs caused fatalities, but rather to examine the circumstances and events that precipitated an attack. Knowing how many Pit Bulls or Rottweilers caused a human fatality has little applicable value, only when examining each case individually can we hope to gain insight into the HUMAN and CANINE behaviors that contributed to these tragic events.

The preceding information and statistics are excerpts from the book:

* "FATAL DOG ATTACKS: The Stories Behind the Statistics", by Karen Delise


The last paragraph is rather important.

[Love That Collie]

Wolfsoul you are right.....fighting is not bred. I SHOULD have typed aggression-tendencies. Mea Culpa on the typo. But I don't want to get into envirornment vs. genetics we could go on forever on that one in both humans and animal world.

The bottom line is this (which I don't think anyone responded to, ehe?),
they have a very bad rep; laws have been enacted around the world on them, China and Europe and the U.S.. Once again, I guess it's all unwarranted just "picking" on the poor little Pit??? I really think not.
And again, once again..........anyone can cite that this or that breed bit (of course every breed has bitten) "I was bitten by this breed" or "I was bitten by that breed," yes dogs bite. But the laws came down from on "high" not because this breed bites, it is the damage that it inflicts when it does bite and how and why or why not it does bite..........the breed doesn't just bite, it clamps down and it, in most cases mauls. And if the people who love the breed don't start cleaning it up and quit making excuses for it the end result could be a total ban in the future.
Then all of the enthuiasts would be saying "woulda, shoulda, coulda."

Folks, we are not talking about "nipping" and "snapping" and a nick on your hand and intolerance we are talking about actual bodily harm of which its intentions lead to.

And Dr. Goodnow....you forgot to add that the most UNPROVOKED ATTACKS are Pits or mixes thereof. They have earned this reputation by actions and will continue to do so as long as the enthusiasts at large continue to make excuses and boohoo to the media and Animal Planet.

And K9 I do not dislike Pit Bulls, I hate what has been done to them but I can guarantee you if someone were to let out a few Pit Bulls in a city park anywhere, people would be jumping out of the way, grabbing up and sheltering their children and not getting out of their vehicles. But I doubt that if someone let out a Shitzu, a Maltese and a couple of Cocker Spaniels you would see the same reaction.

And just so I can join in..............Well, I have been bitten (actually torn) by a big ol' English Sheepdog.........am I afraid of them....noooooo.

And there are FAR more than 431 documented cases between 1965 and 2001
that's just the cases they "eenie, meenie, minie, mode" out of there. There were far more than that in the last 3-4 years.

And I'm not "bashing" anything, but call it what you want. A lot of people need to wake up before their beloved breed goes any farther down the tubes and do something for them IF they love the breed so much. The first step to solving problems is to admit that there is a problem and there is, except I see so many who hold themselves out as lovers of the breed do nothing and do not even admit that there IS a problem.
They do not have the reputation for nothing.

[animal_rescue]

Most "pit bull" attacks were not actually pit bulls or even pit bull mixes, Love That Collie! You need to look at the first and foremost and from what i've learned a dog NEVER attacks unprovoked there is always a reason!!

[Love That Collie]

Animal rescue in a nutshell, you are incorrect.
There isn't ALWAYS a reason that a dog bites or attacks.
There ARE unprovoked attacks, I'm sorry but you need to do
some more research. Or if you are citing a "reason" to be that a person simply walked by a house or business is a "reason" then well, that's called an
"excuse". That's ludicrous.

[DrKym]

Love that Collie,
Please understand I am not taking sides you were the only one that caught the point of my post. ALL dogs can and will bite. I agree totally that the amount of damage done by Pit is signifigantly greater than that of collie (used for demo purposes only). I do not hate nor love Pitties, they just aren't "my" breed. My daughter has 2 both well adjusted dogs both wonderful. I do believe they are the rule,not the exception, however that being said if either one decided to "turn" , my grandson and granddaughter wouldn't stand a chance in hell. However they are only here because 18 yrs ago a Pit at a dog show saved my daughter from another dog attacking. So for me I think they are in general ,and in the case of well bred dogs ,an amazing breed in the RIGHT hands and home. I also know that the breed is being destroyed and not only do the dogs suffer but the people on the wrong end of their attack.
I don't think they are alone in their destruction as money comes before all to some breeders of many breeds. BTW my only bad bite ever given that required stiches was from a pair of dogs that chased me after school 25 years ago .......................a Shepherd and a Cocker. We own both breeds,along with a Dobe. As I said all dogs can and will bite it is their defense. It is the dogs that are bred badly that become dangerous.