50+ rats OH MY hehe

[king2005]

I don't have a problem with breeding for feeders. I didn't realize that's what you were doing to begin with.

I don't breed for fun (that ain't right). But in the past I would "lend" out a preg female mouse to kids (that I knew!!) so they could watch the process. I always took the momma & the babies back, but they got to keep the mouse for a few weeks. If they wanted to see another one or get one as a pet, then I'd do that. Usually they refused to keep it as a pet, but they loved watching it have babies & how they cared for them. All the kids took good care of the momma mice The kids were young & the folks thought it was a good learning exp. & an easy way to see if their kids were ready to have a pet full time pet (I always agreed to take the pet back if little johnny really didn't like caring for it down the road)..

[molucass]

I have a problem with breeding for feeders, its cruel to the rats, and not safe for the snake (if thats what they are being fed to)..More times than not a snake can be attacked by the live rodent leaving it injured and in turn having to be put down.

I understand that your turtle has to eat, but why not get humanely killed frozen feeders, instead of breeding feeders of your own... I don't think its right.

I've never been for feeding live, and I never will be.

[king2005]

I have a problem with breeding for feeders, its cruel to the rats, and not safe for the snake (if thats what they are being fed to)..More times than not a snake can be attacked by the live rodent leaving it injured and in turn having to be put down.

I understand that your turtle has to eat, but why not get humanely killed frozen feeders, instead of breeding feeders of your own... I don't think its right.

I've never been for feeding live, and I never will be.

I don't own a snake...

So is nature cruel?
Hyena's eat their prey while its alive & crying, should we put up fences to prevent Hyena's from eatting Zebra's? Answer is no. Prey is prey, is it sad, yes, cruel no. Everything MUST eat & I'm not gonna starve my turtle just becuase its food item breaths air & has a heart beat.. remember plants feel pain too.. sure its different then an animal, but its still pain!

So its ok to buy a frozen rat from a store, but its cruel to feed my turtle one of my own frozen rats? No offence but that makes no sence at all...
I know what goes into my own feeders & I know they are healthy, I do not know what goes into the feeder rats at the pet store, but I'm sure its not nearly as good as what I'm feeding my rats. How am I to know that they don't feed their rats foods that have BHA & BHT in it? Those are toxic chemicals & will damage my turtle much faster then a cat or dog.

Also how am I suppose to know how the rats at the store were killed? I have gotten a few from stores in the past (when i lived in Ottawa) & there was blood on the noses of the mice & rats! Explain to me how that is more humaine? Not a hair is harmed on my feeder rats when I freeze them & I have strict RULES on how to freeze my feeders. I spent a long time finding the best way to do this & I have one. I will NOT go into detail, but I can assure you its a more natural way to die & this kind of death happeneds in the wild & its almost 100% painless & causes little fear.

My landlady has a wild mouse issue in her kitchen. She has to use the sticky paper to catch them as there are so many. She tried to peel 1 mouse off & couldn't (she didn't want to smash it to death, she just wanted to toss it into the forest alive & well), she ended up crying & her b/f took them & killed them. She asked me if there was a better way. I told her what to do & explained how the animal died. She felt good about it & thats how she gets rid of the mice. She said she checks on the mice & they are dead in 1 hr & are not mangled & gory. She is a god loving person & said she feels more at ease with my way & has shared it with her friends, who also agree.

Yes I do feed live aswell (its his treat) & when the rat is dead in less then 1 second (90% of the time, other wise is less then 5 seconds) I don't have an issue with it at all.

I don't mean to be rude to you or anything, but please ask questions before assuming I'm being cruel to my feeders.

& I do thank everyone for not going insane on this topic.. Feel free to ask more questions & I will answer them.


- I plan to do 2 back to back breedings(well the 2ed breeding will be whenever I get a new male) as that'll supply me with 6-12 months worth of food for Axle. I'll be keeping 1 male & 1 female from the 2ed breeding, so when I put my male in a different cage he wont be alone or I'll just borrow someones male rat, breed & return the male so I wont have to house him <-- I like that idea, I think I'll do that! I hate keeping rats in smaller cages. I like my rats in 4 foot long cages so they can run about & I cannot house a 2ed 4 foot long cage for just a male rat.

[luckies4me]

This whole entire thread is so very very sad. It DOES NOT matter if they are being bred as feeders or not. The point is this, basic humane care should be given to ANY animal we have in our position, whether or not that animal will be used as a food source or not. If you cannot provide the best possible living conditions for these rats DO NOT BREED, period. By the sound of it, you know nothing of breeding. Can you stand to watch a baby die of megacolon? Can you sit there and watch a mom die from birthing complications? Will you take her to the vet if she has trouble? Or will you simply set that aside because well...she's a "feeder" and therefor less important than the other animals out there?

I have never had an issue with feeder rodents, I have an issue with their caretakers. There are people out there who can breed responsibly, and the ones who cannot should not be doing it.

One thing I want to clear up, male rats and mom rats for that matter almost never cannabilize their young. It is VERY rare! Most often than not the dad will usually help care for the young. Though, having the male in with the female is not wise in the first place. Having mothers in with other mothers is pretty bad. All moms should be seperated when with a litter to avoid fighting, snatching babies (which more often than not results in damage to the infant, or death from being pulled on by the rats) and not knowing who came from who. What if a baby was born deformed? How would you know which mom it came from if they were all in together? You should know this in order to breed responsibly, as that mom would need not to be bred again.

Please everyone, I urge you. Don't breed unless you read up on it first. It's not fair to the animals.

[Jods]

Cass I was hoping you'd chime in with your opinion

[sandragonfly]

this upsets me and my tummy very much too.

aw jess. we used to bred our feeders (rats & hoppers) at the ZOO where I worked at. on their strict clean policy, we always, always seperate the mommy rats and clean out their (28 3x3feet) drawerhomes every other day as well as their disease is very contagious. and we chop out heart of fruits/veggies left out from larger animals' meals daily. we also had scheduled dates of freezing, to inject with caliums/vitmans, feeding which to who. the fresh they are for them. do you think you can do all of that, the proper prep too, especially things you've been going through lately?

I know I am not you but I just hate the idea myself or my friends breeding the feeders unless it's done by a professional. at no heart I have to do this, I'd rather buy frozen pinkies (and thaw them) than watching little helpless hearts growing out of hands and gasping out for their lives.. five or one second.

but, if, for your sake's you still want to do this, feed alive.. please, for my and rats' sake, gas it and crack its neck before you feed it.

best for the rats. I don't think you really want to do that.

[molucass]

I don't own a snake...

& there was blood on the noses of the mice & rats! Explain to me how that is more humaine?

If you knew much about rats, you would know that is not blood, its porphyrin and they get it when they are stressed out. It is the red color and appears like blood, but it is not. There is other reasons they get it, but the most common is stress.

Rats produce a lubricating secretion called porphyrin that is manufactured by the harderian gland which lies behind the eyeball. It is stained red with a pigment called porphyrin. When a rat is stressed, this bloody looking mucus may be produced in an over abundance and stain their nose or eyes. Sometimes it looks like bloody tears coming from their eyes.

I took the above statement from a website.

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Please everyone, I urge you. Don't breed unless you read up on it first. It's not fair to the animals.

I agree 100%

[Chilli]

First off, I have nothing against breeding rats for feeders (eventhough 3 of my rats were being sold as feeders when I bought them) as long as they have proper care and I mean proper care, not just decent care.
I just wanted to ask, if you're saying you are breeding these rats responsibly, why didn't you find out about the past of the male rat before you bred? It just sounds a little ironic to me.

[Miss Z]

This whole entire thread is so very very sad. It DOES NOT matter if they are being bred as feeders or not. The point is this, basic humane care should be given to ANY animal we have in our position, whether or not that animal will be used as a food source or not. If you cannot provide the best possible living conditions for these rats DO NOT BREED, period. By the sound of it, you know nothing of breeding. Can you stand to watch a baby die of megacolon? Can you sit there and watch a mom die from birthing complications? Will you take her to the vet if she has trouble? Or will you simply set that aside because well...she's a "feeder" and therefor less important than the other animals out there?

I have never had an issue with feeder rodents, I have an issue with their caretakers. There are people out there who can breed responsibly, and the ones who cannot should not be doing it.

One thing I want to clear up, male rats and mom rats for that matter almost never cannabilize their young. It is VERY rare! Most often than not the dad will usually help care for the young. Though, having the male in with the female is not wise in the first place. Having mothers in with other mothers is pretty bad. All moms should be seperated when with a litter to avoid fighting, snatching babies (which more often than not results in damage to the infant, or death from being pulled on by the rats) and not knowing who came from who. What if a baby was born deformed? How would you know which mom it came from if they were all in together? You should know this in order to breed responsibly, as that mom would need not to be bred again.

Please everyone, I urge you. Don't breed unless you read up on it first. It's not fair to the animals.

Perfect post. Although it says in my rat book about cannibalism, and I know the same is true of hamsters Ah well, I suppose you are far more experienced than any book. Never trust what you read!

And the last sentence, I reckon, should be the eleventh commandment.

[luckies4me]

And the last sentence, I reckon, should be the eleventh commandment.

Amen!


Rats can eat their young. I have seen it. I was just saying it is very very rare.

[My Peanuts]

I don't own a snake...

So is nature cruel?
Hyena's eat their prey while its alive & crying, should we put up fences to prevent Hyena's from eatting Zebra's? Answer is no. Prey is prey, is it sad, yes, cruel no. Everything MUST eat & I'm not gonna starve my turtle just becuase its food item breaths air & has a heart beat.. remember plants feel pain too.. sure its different then an animal, but its still pain!
.

It's not natural for the pray to be in an enclosed area with no way to get out. You ask if we should put up fences to prevent hyenas from eating zebra. No, but we also shouldn't trap the zebras in either.

I'm not sure where I stand on feeding live pray. I know it should be avoided if possible. It could be dangerous for both parties.

[king2005]

molucass,
My rats & mice never had any red (whatever you want to call it, or whatever its caused by is irelavent(sp) as its not good regarless) liquid on their noses. So when I bought mice at the store & saw them all with red liquid, to me that wasn't a good sign at all. I have frozen hundreds or mice & many rats & they never had red liquid on them.

==

I change the nests everyday, as the babies do make a mess & its not healthy for them to be in it.

==

No need to pump the rats full of drugs, as my turtle is already on vitamins for his health issue (he was born that way & I found him 1/2 dead).

==

As for money, I do have a supplies fund for the pets.. No I wasn't prepared to replace the 55g tank that broke, but I was prepared as in I always have extra tanks (yes they are smaller but they are only temps)I also have extra filters (sure they aren't nearly as good, but they will work just fine). I also always buy food in bulk, as its cheaper in the long run. Its only the rats that require regular feedings, so its not hard to buy them food/treats/meds (for the lice) & bedding on a regular bases.. My fish food costs me about 50.00/year & about another 50.00 for chemicals. Turtle food is pretty much zip, as he eats once every 2 weeks & I give him people food often, so that doesn't hurt me (I don't count the cost of my own rats).

==

Why did I mention I had rats & the babies.. well I think people will notice that I have rats in my house, when i start posting photos on my website & when people come to visit (I can't just hide them lol).. also I'm honest, I can't just pretend I don't have them. What if I need info (like when I had the lice issue), then people are gonna ask, when did you get rats? & then get upset for hiding (thinking I don't care for them cause I didn't tell anyone).. Sorry I don't hide things. I love my rats & want to make sure all is well.

Have I change how I deal with Rats, sure have, is it for the better, yep... So don't think I'm ignoring advice, its RUDE advice I don't like (don't think anyone likes that kind of advice) & I tend to get upset over it (like anyone would) & don't see the advice.

==

I admit I made a bad choice when it came to the male (reason hes not being breed again & hes being PTS.. I know I already said that somewhere in this thread), I looked into him, but NOT deep enough. It was only after I breed him that I was told "more" info on him.

[My Peanuts]

I hate to ask, but how and why are you putting him to sleep?

[king2005]

I hate to ask, but how and why are you putting him to sleep?

Because I keep finding more problems with him & they are getting worse (hes in his own cage now). He was malnurished when I got him & infested with lice. His fur is still thinning & now he has white crusty stuff on his fur. His skin is all wrong (rough kinda like his tail) & its turning an odd colour (yellowish brown)).

His breathing is horrible, I thought he was sneezing casue I had the wrong shavings. But now he's still sneezing, but I can hear his breathing (raspy & hard to explain, I'm positive he has that UR issue, as my first Rat had it when i got him, except Grissim is getting worse really fast). But when he does sneeze now stuff comes out! I was told thats really bad & that his lungs are infected/damaged

Hes also gotten REALLY agressive (towards me & the other rats) the past week & seems to be a little off (confused I think). I don't believe in prolonging an animals suffering when they are highly imbreed, as more & more problems will keep popping up (I'm not putting a critter through that again). Its in the rats best intrest to be PTS