50+ rats OH MY hehe

[Miss Z]

I am very concerned about this I was a little concerned about the fact that all these rats are housed together, and so far I've just heard negative comments about these rats. Now as 50+ rats are on their way....

And even though you have had rats in the past who didn't fight, that doesn't mean they won't fight this time.

[finn's mom]

I'm just now seeing this thread, as pet general isn't a place I stop often. I haven't been able to post pictures of the fish I have now, so, I haven't had much to say. But, I came on to see this...and, wow. I am very interested to hear the reasoning behind this. Maybe we're all misunderstanding, but, it does sound like it's being done irresponsibly. And, that's just sad for the rats.

[lilspaz68]

Mmmkay where to start.
Lets start with 5 mommas and 1 inbred male. All the mothers can get pregnant 24 hours of giving birth, very very bad for them. If you don't separate the sexes of the rats by 5 weeks you will have A LOT more pregnant females. You could end up with 100's! If you don't have a lot of room in your cage that could be the reason that the one female is aggressive..they will fight if they are cramped. Here is a cage calculator...punch in your dimensions and it will tell you how many rats can comfortably (and be healthy) in your cage...
http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/informat...agecalculator/
I noticed on another thread you said your rats had lice. Rats have very sensitive respiratory systems and those "fumes" could really damage their lung tissue...worst treatment ever IMO...probably pushed by the salespeople at petstores who sell salt wheels, etc to unsuspecting ratowners, and who know nothing about the care of rats! I use kitten Revolution, one drop and they are gone.

[lv4dogs]

I too am interested in hearing the reasoning behind all this.

Why are you breeding them, especially seeing that some are unhealthy.

I used to be a reputable rat breeder and I am very sorry Jess, but the way you are going about it seems all wrong to me. I hope I just read something wrong or the like, but I am very concerned.

[king2005]

And even though you have had rats in the past who didn't fight, that doesn't mean they won't fight this time.

Thats why I asked about her fighting, it was not normal as to what my other rats did.

Yes the babies are feeders.

No they wont go homeless.

Didn't know Grissim was imbreed. He just looked hungry. Hes a fat ratty now & lice free, but the old owner told me after I breed him that he is really imbreed (After I told her about the lice & wasn't happy)... I knew his hank mate was imbreed, but not Grissim too.

Why will I go to a random pet store & get a new male?
To make sure he isn't related to the females (I'm not into imbreed aminals & have driven 60km before to pick up unrelated male rats.. this time it'll be 500km) & will pick a healthy clean looking male rat.

The old owner gets first pick of the litters that are being born, as that was the agreement we had made (I have no choice to follow through). I have decided (was thinking while looking at the cage lastnight) to put Grissim down (I'll tell the old owner that I woke up to him dead) after the litters are born & to try to find a new male sooner (if not I'll wait until my trip in Aug).

I do enjoy giving rats away for "free", but NOT imbreed rats (well years ago I accidently breed the wrong male "mouse" & I refused to give any of those away or let them live, I kept them for personal feeders).

I am strict when it comes to imbreeding, YUCK! I was hoping to bring some (not too many as I need them for my personal stock) of these litters into the ma & pop pet store near my place for credits (will use it to buy the fancy shavings(aspen is what I use) & fancy foods). Its a very clean pet store & they don't want trash pets in there, so they would be angry if I gave them imbreed rats (don't blame them at all, I'd be angry too & am).

No I don't breed for money! I could use all the babies for myself, but if others want a pet (well not from this litter, only the non-imbreed litters) then they'll get it for free. If a store wants healthy feeders then I'll give a few to them for credits to help in paying for all the costs.

My cage is HUGE. its an XL rabbit cage (I don't use tanks, as that promotes lung issues which can = death & lots of pain (not good!).

I feed the best foods I can get. I feed (forget the brand) this food that has all sorts of different things in it, fruits, veggies, seeds, grains, rat blocks, & so much more. I also feed cat food (made sure there was no BHT & BHA crap in it!!). However I'll be switching it to Nutro puppy or kitten (depending on the size I can get) kibble, for the next bag as its the best, IMO. I also give them 12 grain bread as a treat, & veggies. They had a little banana milk shake last weekend in their mini water bottle (1/4 full) & got a little piece of hotdog each last night.

They have 2 hanging baskets in their cage (I made them), 1 ice cube holder thing (it acts like a basket) & 2 pop boxes (case of 12) to hide in.

For the food dish, I'm using a large dog's ceramic bowl...so if all rats wanted to eat at once they can without pushing the other out of the way & it helps to make sure I don't run out of food (I don't fill it, I just cover the bottom with the kibble & some alfalfa (sp?). I have a rabbit dish that I put in the middle of the dog dish & that holds the rat mix food & I have a small hamster dish that is also in the large rat dish that holds the fresh veggies or damp treats/foods.

I have 2 water bottles. 1 rat sized & 1 rabbit sized (not that HUGE one, but the 1 a rat can use but the bottle can just hold more water) & the mini one that I hook up when they get a liquid treat.

I also clean the cage twice a week with bleach & hot water, & this weekend the rats get a suprize.. a BATH!!! hehe, I can't have dirty rats now can I? hehe

Before I look it up, is it safe to bathe a rat once a week? My rats don't look dirty (you know that nasty fur look, EWWW, I've seen it, but never had a rat look it), but the silly things still play & roll around on soiled bedding & pee on each other! so they smell like urine & I'm sure that its not healthy being on their fur, yuck!

As for shampoo, I didn't see one for rats, so will the one for hamsters or ferrats be safe to use?
or kitten?
or human baby? Don't wanna make them sick from a bath.
Also how deep should the water be?
& how warm or cool should the water be?
is getting water on their face/nose gonna drown them?
or getting some in their ears gonna cause an ear infection?
is the shampoo save to put on their private parts?
will it burn their eyes if it accidently gets in their eyes?
is it safe to use on a preg rat or a nursing rat?
how do you safely dry a rat?
will a blow drier on low heat & at a distance hurt the rat? - I would keep my hand holding the rat so I know it wasn't getting hot.

Just don't judge me because I breed rats for feeders. My turtle needs to eat & if I had enough room/money I'd breed cows for my own use, as I know its off spring would be eatting healthy food & not pumpped full of drugs or eatting other animals, ewwww!!

I hope I answered all questions.. there was just so many to go through

[finn's mom]

I don't have a problem with breeding for feeders. I didn't realize that's what you were doing to begin with.

[king2005]

I don't have a problem with breeding for feeders. I didn't realize that's what you were doing to begin with.

I don't breed for fun (that ain't right). But in the past I would "lend" out a preg female mouse to kids (that I knew!!) so they could watch the process. I always took the momma & the babies back, but they got to keep the mouse for a few weeks. If they wanted to see another one or get one as a pet, then I'd do that. Usually they refused to keep it as a pet, but they loved watching it have babies & how they cared for them. All the kids took good care of the momma mice The kids were young & the folks thought it was a good learning exp. & an easy way to see if their kids were ready to have a pet full time pet (I always agreed to take the pet back if little johnny really didn't like caring for it down the road)..

[molucass]

I have a problem with breeding for feeders, its cruel to the rats, and not safe for the snake (if thats what they are being fed to)..More times than not a snake can be attacked by the live rodent leaving it injured and in turn having to be put down.

I understand that your turtle has to eat, but why not get humanely killed frozen feeders, instead of breeding feeders of your own... I don't think its right.

I've never been for feeding live, and I never will be.

[king2005]

I have a problem with breeding for feeders, its cruel to the rats, and not safe for the snake (if thats what they are being fed to)..More times than not a snake can be attacked by the live rodent leaving it injured and in turn having to be put down.

I understand that your turtle has to eat, but why not get humanely killed frozen feeders, instead of breeding feeders of your own... I don't think its right.

I've never been for feeding live, and I never will be.

I don't own a snake...

So is nature cruel?
Hyena's eat their prey while its alive & crying, should we put up fences to prevent Hyena's from eatting Zebra's? Answer is no. Prey is prey, is it sad, yes, cruel no. Everything MUST eat & I'm not gonna starve my turtle just becuase its food item breaths air & has a heart beat.. remember plants feel pain too.. sure its different then an animal, but its still pain!

So its ok to buy a frozen rat from a store, but its cruel to feed my turtle one of my own frozen rats? No offence but that makes no sence at all...
I know what goes into my own feeders & I know they are healthy, I do not know what goes into the feeder rats at the pet store, but I'm sure its not nearly as good as what I'm feeding my rats. How am I to know that they don't feed their rats foods that have BHA & BHT in it? Those are toxic chemicals & will damage my turtle much faster then a cat or dog.

Also how am I suppose to know how the rats at the store were killed? I have gotten a few from stores in the past (when i lived in Ottawa) & there was blood on the noses of the mice & rats! Explain to me how that is more humaine? Not a hair is harmed on my feeder rats when I freeze them & I have strict RULES on how to freeze my feeders. I spent a long time finding the best way to do this & I have one. I will NOT go into detail, but I can assure you its a more natural way to die & this kind of death happeneds in the wild & its almost 100% painless & causes little fear.

My landlady has a wild mouse issue in her kitchen. She has to use the sticky paper to catch them as there are so many. She tried to peel 1 mouse off & couldn't (she didn't want to smash it to death, she just wanted to toss it into the forest alive & well), she ended up crying & her b/f took them & killed them. She asked me if there was a better way. I told her what to do & explained how the animal died. She felt good about it & thats how she gets rid of the mice. She said she checks on the mice & they are dead in 1 hr & are not mangled & gory. She is a god loving person & said she feels more at ease with my way & has shared it with her friends, who also agree.

Yes I do feed live aswell (its his treat) & when the rat is dead in less then 1 second (90% of the time, other wise is less then 5 seconds) I don't have an issue with it at all.

I don't mean to be rude to you or anything, but please ask questions before assuming I'm being cruel to my feeders.

& I do thank everyone for not going insane on this topic.. Feel free to ask more questions & I will answer them.


- I plan to do 2 back to back breedings(well the 2ed breeding will be whenever I get a new male) as that'll supply me with 6-12 months worth of food for Axle. I'll be keeping 1 male & 1 female from the 2ed breeding, so when I put my male in a different cage he wont be alone or I'll just borrow someones male rat, breed & return the male so I wont have to house him <-- I like that idea, I think I'll do that! I hate keeping rats in smaller cages. I like my rats in 4 foot long cages so they can run about & I cannot house a 2ed 4 foot long cage for just a male rat.

[luckies4me]

This whole entire thread is so very very sad. It DOES NOT matter if they are being bred as feeders or not. The point is this, basic humane care should be given to ANY animal we have in our position, whether or not that animal will be used as a food source or not. If you cannot provide the best possible living conditions for these rats DO NOT BREED, period. By the sound of it, you know nothing of breeding. Can you stand to watch a baby die of megacolon? Can you sit there and watch a mom die from birthing complications? Will you take her to the vet if she has trouble? Or will you simply set that aside because well...she's a "feeder" and therefor less important than the other animals out there?

I have never had an issue with feeder rodents, I have an issue with their caretakers. There are people out there who can breed responsibly, and the ones who cannot should not be doing it.

One thing I want to clear up, male rats and mom rats for that matter almost never cannabilize their young. It is VERY rare! Most often than not the dad will usually help care for the young. Though, having the male in with the female is not wise in the first place. Having mothers in with other mothers is pretty bad. All moms should be seperated when with a litter to avoid fighting, snatching babies (which more often than not results in damage to the infant, or death from being pulled on by the rats) and not knowing who came from who. What if a baby was born deformed? How would you know which mom it came from if they were all in together? You should know this in order to breed responsibly, as that mom would need not to be bred again.

Please everyone, I urge you. Don't breed unless you read up on it first. It's not fair to the animals.

[My Peanuts]

I don't own a snake...

So is nature cruel?
Hyena's eat their prey while its alive & crying, should we put up fences to prevent Hyena's from eatting Zebra's? Answer is no. Prey is prey, is it sad, yes, cruel no. Everything MUST eat & I'm not gonna starve my turtle just becuase its food item breaths air & has a heart beat.. remember plants feel pain too.. sure its different then an animal, but its still pain!
.

It's not natural for the pray to be in an enclosed area with no way to get out. You ask if we should put up fences to prevent hyenas from eating zebra. No, but we also shouldn't trap the zebras in either.

I'm not sure where I stand on feeding live pray. I know it should be avoided if possible. It could be dangerous for both parties.

[*iluvskipper*]

50?!?! wowzers.

[Jods]

well I personally couldn't feed baby rats to any animals, but then again I don't have any pets that need pinkines or live feed so I am not one to judge your position, but maybe you could give your pet ratties a break after their babies?

[lv4dogs]

Oh, you are breeding for feeders. In that I see no problem with it at all! Everyone needs to eat thats for sure. I used to breed feeder mice & rats for my ferrets, dogs & cats.
Well ok, you don't really want unhealthy rats as your pets are going to eat them but you don't have to be :as careful" about breeding them as you would if they were pet rats.


You should probably feed them a light dog food, puppy/kitten/reg. adult food has too much protein in it for rats.

I wouldn't bath them too often, maybe a few times a year only if needed. but for the most part, most rats are actually very clean. If yuo can bath them less than that thats even better. Most common is the dirty tail, a simpl tail bath is all that is needed. They can catch colds & other illnesses easily and like I said they are usually keep themselves pretty clean so the less baths the better. They do sell rodent shampoo, though it is kind of hard to find. Ferret, kitten & baby shampoo's are all fine to use too.
You don't want them to actually sit in the water, unless they like it. But if you do, just an inch or so is all you need. What I reccomend is to use the kitchen faicet sprayer or just hold them under running water. Luke warm is fine. Make sure to dry them off well.
I would not bath the face, just like most other animals I reccomend just wiping the face down with a baby wipe or moist wash cloth. Too much water on the face can cause some of it to be inhalled into the lungs, causing major respitory problems & other illnesses. And the shampoo would probably sting the eyes. Water in the ears can also cause an infection if not cleaned out properly.
Blow dryer, NO. Even low heat can burn such sensative skin. Just towel dry them well.