I'm so, so upset. I can't handle it :(

[jackie]

Oh, I hope you don´t give it up especially if Zeke enjoys it.

I would just ignore the guy, and if something else happens, tell him immediately that is is not ok for him to touch your animal.

[slleipnir]

The thing is, so far it's been 2 DIFFERENT people. I just can't handle it. I have never hit Zeke, I just don't punish him that way. The first guy (Forrest) didn't hit Zeke. He just scared him. Which I accepted. Zeke kept getting in his dogs face. The guy tried other things, but I believe it was just HIS way. I do believe he handles his dogs this way as well, and I think he ment the best by it. He is a nice guy, so I didn't get upset. THIS guy (Mike), however, I don't believe I've ever had a conversation with him. I'm really shy around these people, so I'm still working with it. Forrest actually comes up to me and will ask what's going on or whatever. Mike, like I said, doesn't know I exist...which is good...because he is the treasurer for the club, and never adds my name to the list for payments...Anyway, I believe he hit Zeke just because he was angry, he didn't have Zeke best interest in mind at all. He use to be my neighbor, actually. My mom said he is an a$$, and my dad says the same thing. I think I used to ride my bike on their lawn when I was just a kid, and he use to yell at me. I was only really young, so I don't really remember.

So in Zeke's best interest, I will give it up. I couldn't handle someone really losing their temper at him. I would definetly tell them off, and be kicked out anyway. Zeke doesn't know that it is wrong, so there is no point being angry with him. Mike could be angry at ME, and talk to ME. It's MY fault. Not Zeke's.

People just don't like me. Maybe I'm shy and come across being a snob, I don't know.

[GoldenLuv]

I would of rip that guy a new butt and asked him if he would like me to hit him up side the head.. there is no way in heck i wo uld be taking my dog back there no no no no

[cyber-sibes]

Poor Zeke. I can imagine how pissed you are. But if I were in your shoes, I would probably not go there anymore either Maybe you can find another activity you can do with Zeke, with more dog-friendly people.

[cloverfdx]

First up that guy had NO right to hit Zeke man, and second if his dog has a problem why is it in taining with dogs that are known to cross into the other lane?

If Zeke enjoys flyball it would realy be a shame to give it up.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Poor Zeke - that guy had no right to hit him! I hope you find somewhere else to go

[KYS]

First off that person had no right to hit your dog,
especially because the situation had already been absolved.
If you feel you get no respect, I would take a parent with you and
talk to the highest person involved and air out your concerns.
If this doesn't solve the problem and you can not keep this person
from touching your dog, than take Zeke out.

[Husky_mom]

ok just tell me you it was and i will GLADLY punch them right in the face, i´m serious.........
Zeke doesnt deserves that, i´m so sad too, poor guy, give him tons of kisses and hugs from me

[*LabLoverKEB*]

What a big fat a$$hole of a bully. That's not fair to poor, sweet Zeke. That's so cruel. If anyone did that to my dog, I would deffineatley *be brave* and tell them off. So sorry tyhat this happened, Audrey. Let Zekey know that we her on Pet Talk love him.

[dab_20]

I am soo sorry that your so stressed. Life can be so cruel to perfectly great people.

Your other thread says your trying to get a group going, and I applaud you for that. Please don't give up, Zeke loves and appreciates you for being such a caring person. You go to great measures for him. Those people at fly ball can be in there stupid little group- they are being very unfair and cruel. They don't deserve any respect at all for what they've done to you... and possibly other dogs and people in the future.

Good Luck!!

[wolf_Q]

Audrey, I'm so sorry to hear about all this mess. I can't believe the guy hit Zeke and they won't even admit it. I know I haven't met Zeke but from everything you say about him I can't even imagine him being "aggressive." They obviously just don't understand that some dogs play differently than others. I know how awful I felt when Nebo was kicked out of the agility classes, I was so upset, it still bothers me actually. I hope everything will work out, that'd be great if you could start your own group. Please give sweet Zekey boy a kiss for me!

[elizabethann]

The thing is, so far it's been 2 DIFFERENT people. I just can't handle it. I have never hit Zeke, I just don't punish him that way. The first guy (Forrest) didn't hit Zeke. He just scared him. Which I accepted. Zeke kept getting in his dogs face. The guy tried other things, but I believe it was just HIS way. I do believe he handles his dogs this way as well, and I think he ment the best by it. He is a nice guy, so I didn't get upset. THIS guy (Mike), however, I don't believe I've ever had a conversation with him. I'm really shy around these people, so I'm still working with it. Forrest actually comes up to me and will ask what's going on or whatever. Mike, like I said, doesn't know I exist...which is good...because he is the treasurer for the club, and never adds my name to the list for payments...Anyway, I believe he hit Zeke just because he was angry, he didn't have Zeke best interest in mind at all. He use to be my neighbor, actually. My mom said he is an a$$, and my dad says the same thing. I think I used to ride my bike on their lawn when I was just a kid, and he use to yell at me. I was only really young, so I don't really remember.

So in Zeke's best interest, I will give it up. I couldn't handle someone really losing their temper at him. I would definetly tell them off, and be kicked out anyway. Zeke doesn't know that it is wrong, so there is no point being angry with him. Mike could be angry at ME, and talk to ME. It's MY fault. Not Zeke's.

People just don't like me. Maybe I'm shy and come across being a snob, I don't know.

Sorry to hear about your situation. I hope you can find another club or another sport that you and Zeke can persue and you can both enjoy. I can't imagine what I would do if somebody hit Fenway. Perhaps you can write your feelings in a letter and send it to them? Sometimes that helps. Take care.

[slleipnir]

I got a reply. I will share it here, and you can tell me what you think.

Audrey,

I have been thinking long and hard on what transpired at practice last night, as well as what has transpired with you and Zeke in the (nearly?) year that you two have been training with us. Your email below also had me thinking. Please remember that what I write about below refers directly to my observations of you and Zeke at flyball. I have no idea how Zeke acts in other areas of his life and so cannot comment on that.

I will not get into the specifics about what transpired last night as I did not directly witness anything...and I have already heard several different interpretations of what occured. Only know that I truly regret that your feelings were hurt last night. This sport is supposed to be fun. No one wishes any potential harm to come to any of their pets.

Having said that....I will be very frank with you about what I see with respect to you and Zeke. Speaking as a trainer, a team captain, a flyball competitor and as a pet owner, I will do my very best to clearly explain to you the situation as I see it.

I personnally don't feel Zeke is "aggressive" (and I believe that the majority of our experienced dog people would agree with me here)...if we felt Zeke was aggressive he would not still be training with us. I do strongly believe that Zeke is extremely rude. His behavior towards other dogs is highly unacceptable....he repeatedly 'tracks' dogs on the mats, many times targeting one specific dog, and proceeds to approach this target straight on (most times running), makes very direct eye contact, and often times he makes body contact, all the while his posture is very upright, ears forward. This could certainly be perceived as aggressive behavior by the dog being violated. And to make matters worse, Zeke doesn't respond properly to the reaction he gets from most of the 'targetted' dogs (a growl or bark from the targeted dog seems to interest him more).

You consistently dismiss Zeke's behavior as "really playfull", however, I have yet to see any dog that Zeke has approached like this look like he/she wants to start playing. Play begins most times between dogs (especially those that don't know each other) by a side-on, sometimes cautious approach by both dogs (feeling out each other so to speak), most times eye contact is very indirect....perhaps the dogs are 'looking' at the other dog's side, then some sniffing, tail wagging and probably a play bow or two and finally fun should they both agree. As you can plainly see this is not how Zeke is approaching dogs at flyball.

In the world of flyball....personal space for each dog on the mats is not to be violated. Crossing (whatever the intention), especially if contact is made, is grounds for a write-up and dismissal from the tourney. If a dog is written up by a judge several times, he/she is exused from racing with NAFA period. If Zeke were to cross (like he has repeatedly at practice) in a tourney setting he would be written up and excused from racing for the duration of the tourney.

Zeke is not the only dog that has crossed at our practices. Many green dogs go through this learning process. Most times what gets a dog into trouble with crossing is a high prey/chase drive....really a 'knee-jerk' reaction by the dog to a fast moving object. This is a well established instinct in dogs (and what I am currently dealing with with my BC). However, just because a dog is born with an intinct to 'chase' down fast moving objects, doesn't mean he/she can't (shouldn't) be trained as to what is acceptable to chase and what is not. That is where we come in, as owners/trainers.

And quite frankly, that is where Zeke is having problems. I get the distinct impression that you expect some of our club members to train Zeke. You often make mention that you are not a trainer. But you own a dog(s). That automatically makes you a trainer. How did Zeke learn to go 'potty' outside? Or sit, settle in the car on drives, pose for a beautiful picture, etc.? I could go on but hopefully you get the idea. You have trained Zeke to fit into your life. You may not have worked with as many dogs as some of us have , however, you know Zeke the best. I firmly believe we, as owners, always know our dogs best. And as long as you, as his owner/trainer, do not acknowledge that Zeke has a behavior problem (that he is being socially rude to other dogs....not being playful), he will not get the training to help him overcome it.

Because you don't acknowledge how 'rude' and inappropriate Zeke's behavior is (at flyball)....you do not act quickly and purposefully when Zeke crosses on another dog at practice and that is very frustrating for the owner of the other dog involved. I'll give you an example....Eileen is having a similar problem with Pawn. Pawn is crossing sometimes...targeting a dog for an unknown reason to us. As soon as Pawn acts like she will cross (or crosses), Eileen immediately reacts and Pawn is put away (on time-out so to speak). Eileen fully recognizes that Pawn's behavior puts Pawn and any other dogs on the floor at risk, she reacts quickly and so everyone on the floor feels more at ease.

When I read your email below, I immediately thought of an article I had read a few years ago. I found it this morning...it is called "He just wants to say "Hi"!" and I urge you to take a few moments to read it thoroughly. http://www.flyingdogpress.com/sayhi.html Although it focuses more on how to socialize dogs to be more tolerable of rude dogs...I think that reading it could bring home some of the comments I have made.

This email has become way to long-winded...but I wanted to be as clear and detailed as possible. I hope I have not offended you in any way, and I hope you get something out of reading this. As far as Zeke's participation in flyball, I have mixed feelings. I like Zeke and certainly want the best for him...he should be given the opportunity to have a job/past-time that both you and he enjoys. But I wonder if maybe there isn't something out there that might suit you and Zeke better than flyball. Something that is more one-on-one like agility or disc dog (frisbee).

I welcome any any comments/questions you might have after reading this,

It seems to me, the could care less if I dropped off the planet and never cmae back to practice. A lot of what she said doesn't seem right, just excuses. Like, I never ONCE asked ANYONE to train Zeke. Yes, I HAVE asked for advice, but how is that them training for me?? I want to do it myself, I just don't know where to go with it. They tell me Zeke has his ears forward, and doesn't do the play bow thing...it's not neccessarily aggression, but appearintly it LOOKS like aggression to the dogs?

There is no other flyball clubs, agility or any other clubs near me. I can't drive 2 hours to go to one.

Another thing, I'm not quick to react...yet, this is the first I've heard of it. Shouldn't they be pointing these things out to me? 90% of this e-mail is the FIRST I've heard of it. They should be making suggestions all along if they really wanted me there.

Someone else told me that this guy was being NICE in his reaction, and others would do worse. They might scare him, but it would be for his (and their dogs) best interest, I'm sure. They wouldn't come up to him AFTER he is under control and HIT them.

They are one big family, so naturally they will defend him. I'm an outsider, so I'm not important anyway. I've been crying over this for 2 days now. I'm so upset. I really can't seem to do anything right. I messed up with Josie, and I can't do anything with her. Now Zeke. I can't do anything with him. I'm so sick of myself. I really shouldn't own pets.

[Husky_mom]

dont feel that way, like you said you are the "outsider" thay have to cever thair backs first, but i think what happened is still wrong and they should let Zeke participate, and they should´ve told you the thing they noticed as soon as they appeared and not wait too long so they can be corrected.....

i really hope things get better with you and the pups..........

[dab_20]

Please, please don't put yourself down like that! You are a wonderful dog owner! That guy should NOT have hit Zeke at all. Isn't that like illegal or something? It should be.

Maybe Zeke isn't the most well behaved dog in the world... but he is a wonderful dog and should not be treated like that. He sounds very smart and overall well behaved. You should not be treated like that, either. They are the ones that are being disrespectful to you. I probably woulden't go back if I were you, but I woulden't stop doing flyball with Zeke either. Maybe start your own group? Put flyers around or something.

Good Luck with everything.

...Danielle