Screaming dad

[Medusa]

I used to get spanked to, and my father used to say to me how lucky I was, because he used to cop it with a horse switch. My father was raised right in his opinion, and I was raised right in my opinion. I can look back now and say "Yeah, I was a real little creep and deserved what I got."
So, really what is abuse ??? Was my father abused ?? Was I abused ??? Were you abused with your spankings ??? They answer in my opinion is no. But in others opinions it may be yes.
So what is really happening in this day and age ??? We obviously have become softer in our approach to disciplinary punishment, and we have replaced that with counselling and parenting classes ??? Do you believe that the children now become better adults because of this ??? I don't believe so.
Children need to be disciplined and taught the right direction in life.
The old saying "Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind" is what works.

I can't say that I disagree w/all you've said in this post, Wom. We have become too soft in our approach to discipline but I don't think that going in the opposite direction is the answer either. Moderation is the key for me. As for parenting classes, I said that rather tongue-in-cheek. I think that the time to take those classes, if ever, if BEFORE you have kids, not after.

[Queen of Poop]

I'd say whip out the cell phone, take a video and let it go viral. Then dad can deal with the fallout of his actions.

[moosmom]

I was threatened with a good beating if I didn't stay on the straight and narrow. That was WAY back in the 50's and 60's...LONG before kids could call DCF on their parents. Nowadays you even LOOK at a kid wrong, they can call DCF.

The one thing I've always said was children need to come with instructions. My Dad's philosopy was that when I grew up and had kids of my own, I'd understand WHY he did what he did. Yeah, right.

[Cataholic]

Spanking a young child on the bottom is a far cry from using a whip, grabbing a child by his/her face, and 'beating'. There is discipline and there is abuse. The OP saw it, and made a determination as to what camp she placed it. Frankly, that is good enough for me.

I wouldn't grab my animal by his/her face, I wouldn't take a stick, a whip or any other instrument to my animal's body, WHY is it appropriate to do so to a C.H.I.L.D.

To coin a phrase I heard elsewhere, "When we know better, we do better".

"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". Edmund Burke.

[cassiesmom]

And it may have been the only way the father knows how to discipline his own child.

That's a really good point.

I was at the supermarket on Saturday and I heard a mom tell her child -- who was maybe 4(??)- "Thank you for not using your outside voice while we were in the store." I thought that was kind of a funny thing to say to a child, hard for him to understand, but maybe not. The store was super busy and very crowded. I like what Ikea in Schaumburg does-- they have a monitored play area within the store for kids. I wish the supermarket did.

[Cataholic]

That's a really good point.

So, if slapping my child across his face is the only thing I know to do when he sasses me, is that correct? What about if locking him in his closet was what MY parent did to me, should I do that to him? No. I should get professional help if the only way I know to treat my child is to abuse my child. It is up to YOU (the general you, not you you) to do better, to read, to learn, to talk, to listen. In fact, perhaps Marigold's comments to this man will be enough for him to re-think his ways. Not at the moment, but later, when he cools off.

I was at the supermarket on Saturday and I heard a mom tell her child -- who was maybe 4(??)- "Thank you for not using your outside voice while we were in the store." I thought that was kind of a funny thing to say to a child, hard for him to understand, but maybe not.

Actually, according to child rearing experts (of which I am not) this IS the right way to raise your child- with positive reinforcement for the RIGHT choices. Like dog training- reward the wanted behaviour, and ignore the unwanted behavior.

[cassiesmom]

So, if slapping my child across his face is the only thing I know to do when he sasses me, is that correct? What about if locking him in his closet was what MY parent did to me, should I do that to him? No. I should get professional help if the only way I know to treat my child is to abuse my child. It is up to YOU (the general you, not you you) to do better, to read, to learn, to talk, to listen. In fact, perhaps Marigold's comments to this man will be enough for him to re-think his ways. Not at the moment, but later, when he cools off.

That's what I was thinking. If I don't know what else to do, then I need to find a way to learn.

Actually, according to child rearing experts (of which I am not) this IS the right way to raise your child- with positive reinforcement for the RIGHT choices. Like dog training- reward the wanted behaviour, and ignore the unwanted behavior.

It just sounded confusing to me when she said it. But I was looking at my grocery list, trying to figure out what I still needed and where to find it, the store was crowded, and I heard her.

[wombat2u2004]

That's a really good point.

I was at the supermarket on Saturday and I heard a mom tell her child -- who was maybe 4(??)- "Thank you for not using your outside voice while we were in the store." I thought that was kind of a funny thing to say to a child, hard for him to understand, but maybe not. The store was super busy and very crowded. I like what Ikea in Schaumburg does-- they have a monitored play area within the store for kids. I wish the supermarket did.

I remember the "Ball Room" very well at Ikea. It's a great idea.
But I also remember once when my two girls were very young and were playing in it, and there was a boy bullying another little boy. The offending child was removed and his mother contacted to come get him. I can remember the mother saying to the child "Honey, you know you are not supposed to do that." Positive reinforcement ??? No way. If the child knows that whatever he chooses to do is only met with that from his mother, then he will simply do what he wants in future.
Any lesson learnt, would have been because someone actually kicked him out of that ballroom.....and NOT from his mother.
The punishment must fit the crime. It is simply the only way a child can learn a lesson. and the punishment must be meted out by the parent, no-one else.
And if you think that a "Honey, don't do that again" works better than a hard slap on the butt and a promise that there's no ball room unless ya get your act together, then yer all barking up the wrong tree.
And folks, I have PROOF of this. My own three girls are living PROOF of this.

[moosmom]

they have a monitored play area within the store for kids. I wish the supermarket did.

They did have one when I was growing up. At Motts Supermarket, it was the magazine rack!!!!

Because of the way I was raised, "spare the rod, spoil the child mentality", my daughter was never touched. I used positive reinforcement and rewards for good behavior as well. My daughter is now a beautiful, 35 year old woman about to be married to the love of her life, and becoming the stepmother to my beautiful step-grandson, Cody, who will be walking ME down the isle!!!!!

[Cataholic]

Positive reinforcement wins out over abuse any day. Sometimes, people simply don't have the necessary skill set to be a parent. And while not all children that were abused go on to abuse their own children, it is a higher percentage that do.

[Catty1]

QOP - I like that idea!

[Lady's Human]

Wom, for countless millenia people have been raising children incorrectly.

Thousands (if not more) years of practical experience is wrong. The professor in the ivory tower is, of course, more intelligent than all of us.

[mrspunkysmom]

For a start, it is illegal to do what you condone. It is not illegal for someone to chastise their child.

Part 1:

In the U.S. it can be. If a parent uses force to discipline their child in a public school, we are required to report the incident to child services. Not doing so can result in your teaching license being revoked in South Carolina. We are also required to report when a child tells us there is abuse in the home.

[mrspunkysmom]

Part 2:

My mother could be abusive and cruel at times. However, she never disciplined us in public, feeling that was demeaning to the child. When we got home, it was a different story. She gave us a look and we were miserable the rest of the outing because we knew we would get a tongue lashing as well as a paddling or a grounding when we got home.

We had to be tweaked about once per year, maybe twice some years. We were reprimanded on a regular basis, but outrageous behavior was a yearly rite of passage.

[mrspunkysmom]

Part 3:

As a teacher, I can tell you that many parents mean well, but do not know how to discipline. I often wonder if fear of "big brother" has had an impact on this.

I am against corporal punishment, especially for teenagers and pre-teens. I do believe that consistent discipline brings out the desired behavior.

However, I have met families where all but one of the children did right, followed the rules, etc. That one child broke the rules just to break them. And the parent might have to resort to more stringent measures to keep the child in line.

My mother never had to go to school for my youngest brother and I. We flew under the radar naturally. This is the one that I visit, who is a chief of security for a Mall (also a certified policemen in NC). The middle one was born demanding his way and approached life with the idea "I might get in trouble." Mother had to resort to draconian measures to keep him in line. So instead of being a chief or problem fixer for a Mafia house, he is an executive with a Fortune 100 company.

This company is a financial services company, so the mafia description night not be too far off the mark.

If I saw abuse I might say something, but I know that I have to consider the I might not know everything about that situation.