Sex abuse in church

[lizbud]

I may be wrong (it wouldn't be the 1st time), but I believe the point that Wom is trying to make, is that if priests were allowed to marry and have a relationship as such, that there would be less of this abuse. Yes - there are pedophiles, married and single, from all walks of life, and unfortunately it will continue, but I really believe that there would be a lot less among the clergy, if they were permitted to marry. And not only that, but perhaps more men of higher moral standards would join the priesthood if this was allowed.
Just stating my opinion - not looking for a confrontation!

No problem, I understand.

I really don't think being married, or not ,has anything to do with being
a pedophile. The clergy don't abuse children because they can't marry.

[Karen]

No problem, I understand.

I really don't think being married, or not ,has anything to do with being
a pedophile. The clergy don't abuse children because they can't marry.

No, but pedophiles may gravitate toward jobs that have to do with children, sadly.

[pomtzu]

No problem, I understand.

I really don't think being married, or not ,has anything to do with being
a pedophile. The clergy don't abuse children because they can't marry.

But I think that if they were allowed a healthy sexual relationship with a wife, they would be less likely to gravitate towards children. I'm rather certain that most don't start out or intend to abuse children, but that it is done out of sexual frustration, it escalates, and there you are - a monster is born. I'm in no way defending their actions - they are monsters and need to be dealt with accordingly. I just think there would be less of them if the Church would change their rules and requirements for priests.



Yikes - and I'm the one that doesn't like to debate politics or religion!!!

[lizbud]

No, but pedophiles may gravitate toward jobs that have to do with children, sadly.

Now, that could be true. These people who abuse children don't have
"normal" sexual desires for heterosexual relationships. They are deviates
from the normal.

[wombat2u2004]

These abuses have nothing to do with priests & nun being married.
It has to do with pedophila. A pedophile can be married or single but
they still abuse children.

Yes, it has a lot to do with it. In fact it has everything to do with it.
These people cannot live a normal sexual life as do those outside of the clergy, so therefore they must conceal it. And what better way is there to conceal it, than to target children who they frighten into silence ????
As I said before...I have seen it within my own ex family....these were vulnerable children....the young...those who are still trying to figure out what life is all about, and what is right and what is wrong. The priests know this, and exploit it accordingly.

A story........I don't know how true this is, but I'll let you figure it out.
Back in the 1970's, when I was a shopfitter carpenter, I had a labourer (all of us tradesmen had one that was assigned to us). My labourer Teddy, was Maltese, and I worked with him for some 5 years, and became very good friends with him. Teddy hated the church, he was a very strict Catholic and paid his tithes accordingly, and it was 10% of his wages. Of course he kept paying and paying, and did so because it was EXPECTED of him, to maintain the guise of being a good Catholic.
One day he told me, that in Malta there were these convents that trained nuns. When their training was finished, the priests would come along and pick out the most prettiest of the nuns, and have them posted to the Vatican....you can guess what for.
Like I said....I can't vouch for the truth of this.
But I did know Teddy, and he was a pretty honest sort of a guy.

[wombat2u2004]

Now, that could be true. These people who abuse children don't have
"normal" sexual desires for heterosexual relationships. They are deviates
from the normal.

No no no....they DO have normal sexual desires. They are the same as everyone else. But that changes because of circumstance.
They cannot have a normal sexual realationship, so therefore they take the only way out, and have an abnormal sexual relationship.

[Catty1]

But Wom - isn't that like saying the pedophiles among us can choose to marry, and therefore won't prey on children?

I think the one point made was that the Catholic clergy is attractive to pedophiles because they don't have to hide behind a marriage...and they have a lot of access to their victims.

I agree that there likely are affairs of all kinds in the Catholic church, but I bet pedophilia is of a higher incidence than in other churches, or the public at large.

Churches that welcome pastors with families will attract that element. Less so for pedophiles!

[Marigold2]

Why are priets not allowed to marry? The truth will surprise many, it's not because they are married to God and are suppose to be pure of thought. Hundreds of years ago priets were allowed to marry, I believe 39 Popes were.
It had to do with the church wanting to keep more money for themselves and not wanting to support the priest and his many kids, mistress and more kids. Money, money, money it's all about the money.

[wombat2u2004]

But Wom - isn't that like saying the pedophiles among us can choose to marry, and therefore won't prey on children?

I think the one point made was that the Catholic clergy is attractive to pedophiles because they don't have to hide behind a marriage...and they have a lot of access to their victims.

I agree that there likely are affairs of all kinds in the Catholic church, but I bet pedophilia is of a higher incidence than in other churches, or the public at large.

Churches that welcome pastors with families will attract that element. Less so for pedophiles!

Well yeah, I suppose that church does attract pedo's......but to what extent ???? Is every priest that ends up a pedo have a past as a pedo ???
I doubt it. I suppose some had that in mind when they first entered the church, but I would bet that would be a very low percentage of them.
Most of those priests entered their training as teenagers. Usually because of family expectations that to be good Catholics, one of their children be it male or female enter the church. If that is the case, then why would they have been pedo's then ???
And isn't it true that most perversions need to time to grow and be nutured ??? I mean if mummy and daddy EXPECTED their son to give his life to the church, and then took him along as a 16-17 year old, and shoved him into the local convent where he was sexually abused by his superiors, how long do you figure it would take before he knew that the only way he could get sex, was in the same manner ????
I believe that it is circumstance. These people can't lead an ordinary sex life, so they must seek it secretly, and what is a better opportunity than to take advantage of those who won't speak up ???

[king2005]

Why are priets not allowed to marry? The truth will surprise many, it's not because they are married to God and are suppose to be pure of thought. Hundreds of years ago priets were allowed to marry, I believe 39 Popes were.
It had to do with the church wanting to keep more money for themselves and not wanting to support the priest and his many kids, mistress and more kids. Money, money, money it's all about the money.

I hope I don't upset anyone with "my personal opinion"

Todays Church (I cannot speak for the past as I HONESTLY don't know it) is nothing more then a money hungry Cult. Thats how I see it.

I am no longer religious as it was forced down my throat by crazy teachers & crazy church goers. The ONLY person who was on my side was Fr. Sebastien. He never tried to cram it down my throat, never got mad if I didn't pay, pray or believe. He said the ONLY thing that was important, was for me to be a good moral person... & to this day, that is the rule I live by.

I am a strong believer that the lack of marriage plays a huge part in the molestation/rape issues. How many priests have been caught for paying hookers? I've heard of several, how many aren't caught? ALL mammals have a huge drive for sexual relations, esp males. Its all related to hormones.

Take elephants for example. Take an intact male & keep him penned up alone from the females.. What dose he do out of sexual frustration? He humps anything he can get on top of (cars, toys, different species, etc)..

Horses will do the same thing
Dogs will do the same thing
Monkeys & Apes will do the same things
& so on...

Human males are no different. After a while their sexual frustrations are going to cause them to snap & do crazy things.. which in our society is illegal.

Maybe neutering (not a V.) Priests is the way to go. It generally solves other male mammals from getting sexually frustrated, as there are NO hormones to cause it. Seriously... What do Priests need them for anyways?

[blue]

The Catholic Church isnt infallible. For all of its faults the church still helps more then it harms.

[wombat2u2004]

The Catholic Church isnt infallible. For all of its faults the church still helps more then it harms.

It does....but first it helps itself.

[Marigold2]

I feel for all the good Catholics who go to church and put their faith into their priest and pope. This is very painful, it goes to the very root of your upbringing and family tradion.
However the church is a business, and it runs on money, greed and sexs.
I agree with many posts, not allowing priests to marry is not how humans are wired.
God made us sexual creatures. One problem that I have seen is the vast number of gay catholic priests. In fact I can't remember a straight one in years.
Here is a place the gay can hide, hide and live their lives amoung other gay men.
Why wasn't Frances interested in girls as a teenager his very devote parents wondered, but now they are so thrilled he wants to be a priest.
Bingo. It's a perfect cover and yes it can lead to sexual frustration and secert shame, it's all so horrid.
One of the worst things about sexual abuse is the life long mental problems victims suffer. When they do speak of abuse 20, 30 40 years in their past the tears flow and the pain is raw and bleeding.
They lose their innocence, trust, hope, joy, happiness. It is not just the physical act that haunts them but the gulit and shame that they suffer all their lives. It is a death, a death of the soul.
I have a dear friend who's daughter was molested by her uncle and he also molested his two daughters. I have three cousins who were molested by their father and another family member who also was molested by her uncle.
These young women were changed, changed profoundly. Every vice you can think of they did afterwards. Drugs, abuse to family, thief, prostitution, you name it and these girls did it, jail time. It runied families, it ruined lives. Sex abuse is a lifetime of mental pain.
Lets do what we can to stop this.

[Miss Z]

Maybe neutering (not a V.) Priests is the way to go. It generally solves other male mammals from getting sexually frustrated, as there are NO hormones to cause it. Seriously... What do Priests need them for anyways?

Now you mention it, routine castration has been part of many old religious divisions even up to the early 20th century, if I recall correctly. Perhaps they had it right in the past! It certaintly would be a rather fitting punishment for these priests, or indeed any serious sexual predator.

[king2005]

Now you mention it, routine castration has been part of many old religious divisions even up to the early 20th century, if I recall correctly. Perhaps they had it right in the past! It certaintly would be a rather fitting punishment for these priests, or indeed any serious sexual predator.

I think getting it done beforehand is the way to go. Once a priest has been a priest for 5yrs, its mandatory to have your nads removed.

I truly believe most of those priests never planned on harming anyone. Raging hormones will cause you to do sick evil things, EVEN if you are a good person.

Take my dad for example... he was starting to go down a very bad path before I was born, but luckily he saw what path he was going down & sought help right away. He saw a shrink to help, then had some surgery to help (after my sister was born) & went on medication to lower his drive greatly.

Please note, he didn't commit any crimes (no humans of any age were involved)s, but he was damn close. To this day it has haunted him. & because of what didn't happen I was subjected to horrible evils when I was 14yrs old. Its sooo much fun being lured into a room & then have 2 adults (mother & CAS) try to force you to say "daddy touched me"... If I wasn't a level headed stubborn child I would have caved & said whatever it took to get them to stop yelling at me. Sorry not gonna lie about something like that... but how many scared kids would?

Kinda makes you wonder how many false cases there really are out there...

My point is, is that my dad IS a good man, he's not a predator by far, but his hormones were going to make him one. So this is why I believe hormones control us more then we'd like to think.

Also look at a lot of the Priests that are doing the crimes, they are fairly old, no? & been trapped in a raging hormonal body for decades with no release, no? Ticking time bombs.

Doesn't the same sort of thing happen to many dogs that are tied up all their lives? After several yrs of nothing but confinement & isolation, the once friendly dog is now a raging psycho path.

Lets also look at Zoos. What happens when you put wild animals into small boring pens? They loose their minds & do abnormal things.

Lets look at circuses. What happens when you confine a wild animal to a tiny pen & force it to do stupid retarded things all its life? They loose their minds & become milling machines.

yes yes yes, they are very different situations, but just look what hormones & confinement & isolation does to a wild animal. Humans are animals, we ALL react very very similar & when we snap or go nuts, watch out, because we are also very smart animals, so we are good at hiding things.. kinda like a sick cat I suppose.