Pit bulls??

[critter crazy]

As far as I am concerned any dog can bite, no matter the breed. To label a whole breed based on a few instances is maddening. Any dog, can and will bite given the right circumstances!(well actually it would be the wrong circumstances) I hate it when people blame a whole breed becuase of stupidity.

[luvofallhorses]

I agree, I believe that any person who calls themselves a dog lover should NEVER support any BSL. Even if they happen to hate the breed that is the current target...it starts with pit bulls but it will just keep going. I've seen a ton of breed ban lists that include siberian huskies, which as they are my beloved breed it really hits close to home...

well said..
I couldnt agree with you more.

[Love That Collie]

Dr. Goodnow......I have to disagree, my insurance agent told me
the insurance industry rank Pit Bulls #1 on the dog list in the U.S. consisitently as uninsurable on homeowners in most states. You cannot even purchase a seperate insurance policy in this state no matter how much you might want to pay. And it is not solely the breed temperament that the industry looks at or its propensity to bite or not to bite as the case might be.
They say that in REPORTED cases of bites that the breed's power, the pressure of the bite, the tendancy for it not to let go and lock its jaws and
go "for the kill" and not just a warning nip or minor bite that most of the time the attacks are proven unprovoked and of a deadly nature. Just because say, Oh, a tiny dog breed has a propensity to bite (for instance) doesn't make it any better than a certain Pit Bull's propensity to bite but for the fact
that the little dog's bite probably won't kill an adult.

I used to be an insurance investigator for insurance agency attorney's for 13 years and this breeds "track record" is not good and that is a shame that
people, especially in the U.S. have ruined this breed that could contribute
so much to society yet by most people seen as an outcast. This will not be
reversed until breeders all over come together as a whole and try to do something about it. I don't know what that will be nor how it will be accomplished but hope that it happens.

And I'll only pass along one more bit of info and then I'll shut up
My uncle was a dog trainer for the Military for many years and he stated that
when he was there that they never used Pit Bulls because they were unstable
and no matter how hard the trainers (from all over the country) tried 9 times out of 10 they could not get the dog to be consistent in command even 25% of the time, they could not get them to turn off their "kill" mode. And these dogs came from breeders all over the country and this was many years ago and the breed isn't getting any better in most peoples eyes. Yes, any dog probably will bite given the right circumstances but some have the propensity to "turn" at any time for no reason.

[Jadapit]

Ugh!!! Love That Collie, a pit bull does NOT lock their jaw that is a myth. Their jaws are strong, they are muscle but they dont lock. I'm sorry but I dont believe some of what you are saying about the pit bulls. I own one, she listens to me VERY well. She does not attack, bite, or try to kill anyone. When people come to my house they are going to be licked to death NOT attacked....

*edit to add*

Please take a look at this link it will you show you the many good things pit bulls can do. From search and rescue to sniffing out drugs.
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pospress.php

[Love That Collie]

Jadapit......I didn't mean the "lock" as in they are in essense "stuck".
They have stong jaws and an incredible amount of pressure per square inch.
They do not let go IF they don't want to.
And I did not say that they attack 24 hours a day all day long I said they
have a propensity to be unstable and they don't get that reputation just
because a few of them have attacked and/or bitten.

Also, go and tell your insurance agent that you have a Pit Bull. If you live
in certain counties in Florida and in other states try telling the police that
you own one because in certain counties in certain states they are illegal
to own or have possession of. And I agree that this is a shame but as the
old adage says......"better to be safe than sorry" until something is done about it. Anyone can "target" any breed and yes every breed of dog has
bitten but this one has the lead track record in the U.S. for unprovoked attacks and multiple attacks. And yes, this breed can do things that can
help society but their record is unstable so why use them when many other
breeds can do the job without danger being a possibility in the forefront.
And re the website of positive pit bull press, yes they are in some service
and it is very rare, there are less than 1% working as opposed to other breeds. And most of THEM are probably on that website. Any breed enthusiast can throw up a website and cite certain dogs of the breed for this or that but statistics speak louder than words and it's not just because they
have a bad reputation, they have seemed to back up that rep with actions
consistently.

There are vets who will not treat a pit, there are groomers and doggie daycare businesses who will not sit for nor groom a pit because they cannot
buy liability insurance. My dogs own groomer is a pit bull owner and she is
not permitted to bring the dog on the property, not because its mean or
acts out or has bitten, its because it is a pit and there is liability risk in the breed.

And no, I have never been bitten by a pit bull and no, I PERSONALLY do not
know anyone who has. As a matter of fact I was bitten by an Old English
Sheepdog and got 4 stitches. Do I hold that against that breed, nope.

However as one Pit Bull owner's neighbor insured by one of the world's leading insurance companies gave in deposition testimony in 1999 said, and I quote, "Mr. ******* had that dog for 7 years, he played wonderfully with his and my children all those years, grew up with them since he was 9 weeks old, never had a bit of trouble with him, he never knew a stranger and he just up and ran across the yard that day and wanted to play with Mr. *******'s 9 year old daughter and my daughter who was 8 at the time, while they were playing Barbie's on a blanket. He jumped in the middle of the Barbie's and Mr. ******'s daughter just reached up and pushed him away putting her hand on his shoulder from her sitting position and he bit down on her wrist and my 8 year old daughter attempted to help her by attempting to
pull his daughter's arm from his mouth and screaming NO,NO,NO get off, he then turned and went straight for her face and was on top of her. I thought
I was having a nightmare, I couldn't believe what I was seeing I began to run across the yard towards them then Mr. ******'s 16 year old son who was outside at the same time I saw running toward the girls with a ball bat and he
hit the dog twice on the head hard with the bat and the dog dropped over,
stunned and got back up, wobbling and I couldn't believe it but he went for
my daughter again but Sean the 16 year old hit him again before he could get to her and the dog fell over. My daughter had 147 stitches in the left side
of her head and face and ear and is still in need of more plastic surgery. I still can't believe that this happened, I had had this dog in my home many times
and I never would have believed it. I thank God that he didn't kill her and I thank God for Sean being there to save her, he was closer to the scene than I was and I might not have gotten to her in time. The only question that keeps haunting me and Mr. ****** is why, why did he do it? Mr. ****** is as devasted about this whole thing as we are and he blames himself. I don't blame him because I never would, in a million years have thought the dog
would do this. This dog was always so well behaved and obedient, he even
played hide and go seek and tag with many children at one time and was so good.

This case was settled out of court of course but everyone knows how insurance companies are, there was no defense. The authorities even had
an autopsy done on the dog trying to ascertain whether or not there was some physical reason that the dog would do this........nothing was found.

This and HUNDREDS of other cases such as this was when this insurance company really began to investigate case by case reported dog bites from all states in the U.S.

Jadapit, I do sincerely hope that yours will always be how you say she is now, sweet and licks people to death and that you can always trust her but that's how the above dog was too.

[Jadapit]

I'm truly sorry that happened to your daughter. I cant even imagine seeing something like that happen, especially to your own daughter. I feel for the owner also, he must have felt terrible. After reading that, I understand more why you feel the way you do.

It is legal to have pit bulls where I live. I want you to know that I'm a very responsible pit bull owner. I do love the breed thats why I wrote what I did because I feel the need to stick up for them. There are thousands of pit bulls that will never attack or bite anyone in their life I truly believe that. Again, I'm sorry that happened to your daughter.

One more thing, there has to be insurance compaines that will insure you if you have a pit bull. I live in Colorado, they totally banned the pit bull (other breeds also) in Denver. They also banned them in Aurora but if you owned them before the ban you were allowed to keep them as long as you registered them and took out a hundered thousand dollar insurance policy on them. I know a pit can do a lot of damage if they bite, but really so can a lot of other "big" dogs. I think it would be such a shame if every State banned them they really dont deserve that. IMHO anyway..

[GreyhoundGirl]

Ouch... Maybe it's a full moon. I'll go check...

[Love That Collie]

Jadapit...that didn't happen to MY daughter. Read it again and I
think you will see I was quoting an actual insurance case on deposition
from the man who saw his neighbors dog attack HIS daughter. I didn't know
the man personally, the insurance company was defending their insured, the
dog owner.

Yes, you were what the law calls "grandfathered" in when that law went into effect in Denver. And One Hundred Thousand Dollars is not enough insurance
to have it's probably the minimum that the law demands there possibly.
The owner of the dog in the deposition had Seventy Five Thousand insurance
at that time (in the 1990's) it wasn't enough, he had to sell his home in order
for him to pay for the little girl's medical bills and future surgeries which was
another part of the case. The insurance company would (of course) only pay
what amount their insured had at that time and that's what they are liable for. However, the homeowner (owner of the dog) had to come up with more than $125,000.00 himself over and above what the insurance paid, he had to
end up selling his home to get it.

There are insurance co's who will insure pit bull owners but not in all states
and the list of states is growing. I do realize that it is not the breeds fault and sometimes not the owners fault. It's just that the breed has been bred badly over many decades in this country and on the whole has been ruined and it will take twice as long to get it back to its breed standard and that's only with hard work, determination of ethical breeders AND yes, the law and that's terrible.

[Alysser]

Now, I hate to say it but Sassy isn't the friendliest of dogs. She WILL AND DOES bite when she feels she needs to, sometimes out of the blue. She has bitten me 6-7 times in my life(seperate incidents.) One, when I was five(when we got her.) I pulled her tail and she bit me. Nothing major, it didn't break even the skin. I'd say it was more of a nip. She bit me twice last year because I was taking pictures of her and I guess she didn't want it. Agian, nothing major. She bit me 4 times on the arm. Only one broke the skin but it didn't bleed. If there even was another accident, I don't remember. She bit a toddler twice because they were annoying her. They pulled her tail, she didn't even growl(they're brother and sister.). They slap her, and she snarls at them to get away. The boy slaps her agian and she bites him. Nothing happened except for it broke the skin. The girl was bitten without the skin being broken. Well, anyway I have also been bitten by a Jack Russel terrier, German Shepherd, a few poodles, and a shih tzu but nothing else. Yeah and they say pitbulls bite the most? I think, generally, people are scared of pitbulls more because they are said to have stronger jawbones. Is this even true? I heard from a former friend, you would have to break an English bulldogs jaw to get it off, but I don't believe it.

Sorry, this stuff happened to you, Wolfsoul! I'm glad to hear it was nothing serious.

EDITED: Forgot to add, today I was attacked my friends Shih Tzu. It broke the skin and I have a bruise. There will definatly be a scar. I was trying to pick him up because my friend was doing something on the floor and she didn't want him on the floor, so told me to put him on the couch. He growled and bit me. Dogs just really hate me....

I just want to add, Jadapit, you are truley the most responsible Pitbull owner I "know". Your girls were raised properly and inturn, turned out to be the most friendliest of pitties. They're all lovley.

[Jadapit]

Jadapit...that didn't happen to MY daughter.

Oop's my bad, sorry about that. I'm going to say one more thing then I will shut up. So many times its the owners that make pits the way they are. I believe any "big" dog shouldn't be left alone with little kids I know I would never leave my three alone with little kids. So many times there are two sides to the story when there is a pit attack you usually only hear the medias side they are known for getting the facts wrong most the time.

As you said its the breeders that are ruining the breed so in the end of things its the HUMANS fault not the dogs. What if all this BSL crap was happening to your collie? Would you sit by and let it happen or stand up for the breed? Someone has to stand up for the thousands of GOOD pit bulls and their owners.

[Love That Collie]

Jadapit, and it's truely sad that it has happened to the breed and all of it
isn't some of the owners of pit bulls fault, I think the fault lies at the feet
of the breeders. Even if you have had 5 generations of good,good pit bull
parents, the traits of the next generation back from those 5 generations can
rear its ugly head, that pair could have been bred to fight as is part of the problem with the breed. Gladly this is not a trait of a Collie and nooooo I am not saying that a Collie has never bitten, they have bitten, all breeds have bitten, but it would boggle your mind to know that there are so many full blown attacks by PB's in the U.S. every year and it's not getting much better.
The police reports, court filings and insurance claims confirm this. I do truely
feel sorry for this breed in particular.

I don't know if that primarily is the reason that PB's make the news for a bite
or if it's the severity of the attack and outcome that is the reason and I wouldn't trust the media as far as I can throw them which is why there is research involved.

I believe that NO dog should bite unless it or it's owner is in imminent danger whether the dog be large OR small it doesn't matter. A small dog just doesn't
have as much power, the power is part of the point. It's like someone trying
to defend themselves with a .25 caliber handgun against a person with a
heat seeking guided missile so to speak.

[wolfsoul]

The majority of supposed pit bull attacks are not actually done by pit bulls, but breeds that look similar. Most of the reports of the lady who had a face transplant said that a pit bull was the dog responsible -- however, it was her pet labrador retriever. Most surveys will tell you that the labrador retriever is the #1 biter in North America.

I hate it when people say that pit bulls are genetically predisposed to attack -- they have no more predispostion than any other breed. They are terriers. They were bred to bait bulls and kill rats. They were NOT bred to fight until later on. Fighting is not something you can breed. Unlike pit bulls, boxers WERE originally bred to fight, and look at them. They are younger than the pit bull and yet they seem to be fine. Pit bulls are terriers --- like all other terriers, they do have a tendency towards being dominant --- this is something that can be fixed with training. And, like all other terriers, they are bred to hold on. Pitties were bred to bait bulls --- if they let go of that bull, they are dead. They do not "lock" their jaws --- it is in their instinct, as with all other terriers, to hold on or die. Even a jack russell will hold on for dear life -- that rat could kill it. But pit bulls were also bred to be family dogs. They slept in the children's beds. And so any dog that showed any tendency towards aggression towards humans was culled. Nowadays of course, with backyard breeders and puppy mills, we do not always have this. But with good breeders, we do. It is not true that mixing five generations of good dogs can create an aggressive litter. A good breeder mixes temperments properly. A complete outcross is more unpredictable in temperment than a linebreeding, but the breeder would have done their research on similar outcrosses.

[IRescue452]

The breed I've been bitten by the most in my lifetime is the labrador (and lab mixes). I do not trust labradors at all and I absolutely hate taking them out at work. I wish more people were ready to restrict the breeding and owning of labradors instead of pitties. Labs are overbred and owned by every Joe Schmo that shouldn't have a dog and they need to be restricted.

[K9soul]

I wish more people were ready to restrict the breeding and owning of labradors instead of pitties.

Wow, All I can say is I completely agree with Jordan in that I am against ANY BSL or blanket breed-based statements (bad or good). Turning something that is just wrong to another more "popular" breed doesn't make it right. Again, it has nothing to do with labs as a breed. It has to do with so many owning labs, and often people who run out and get a puppy mill dog and then don't train it right, raise it right, or exercise it enough until it becomes a problem. Start restricting labs, and they will turn to the next breed, and pretty soon you can replace your statement with "they should restrict _________ breed." I don't want to see ANY breed filling in that blank. People need to become educated, better dog owners, and some people don't have any business owning a dog period. Don't move from one form of breedism to another.. it will just perpetuate the problem . Ugh, I just tend to get really emotional on these topics. I should have the sense to stay away from them .

[luvofallhorses]

well said, Jess. I would never ever say I want this certain dog breed banned, ever! regardless if I had a bad expierience..or not. I blame the owner, not the dog. I go by the saying "punish the deed NOT the breed".. I, fortunately haven't had one dog attack me or any other animal for that matter. I just wish this BSL s*** would end, seriously! I am with you, Jess I do tend to get emotional on these topics, too..