just gave this some thought....

[carole]

I don't know much about either candidate, but I know if I were electing anyone it would be Mr Kerry, why you ask? because he is promoting the stem cell research and Bush is not.

I don't mean to change this thread in any way, knowing that it is a controversial subject, but for me personally this would be the best thing ever to happen, if Kerry lets it go ahead, this could and would affect my life, so even though I am a kiwi and think it does not matter who gets in, I guess it does after all.

This could have a huge impact on the future of my family.,so this is a subject close to my heart, and one I will fight for all the way.

[moosmom]

Carole,

I am also an advocate of stem cell research. Think about it. A baby is born, the afterbirth and umbilical chord are examined and discarded. Such a waste, since the stem cells in the afterbirth and chord can do so much good.

It's the same instance where people don't want to be organ donors. What they are doing is denying a person sight, liver transplant, heart transplant, kidneys, you name it. All of it goes into the ground forever. Such a waste and so selfish.

That's one reason I'm voting for Kerry.

Oh, and for the record, I AM an organ donor and have also informed my family and had it put in my will.

[guster girl]

Ok, and, just because I don't know, what is Bush's stand on stem cell research?

[carole]

Guster Girl I only heard he is against it, for ethical reasons, some one else might beable to elaborate on this for me.

I actually never meant this to be another thread, my computer crashed as I was sending this to PT, and it was in the other thread, still is ah well, maybe its a good idea to start this one and get people's point of views, but it is controversial and I don't want to see it turn bad. Guess I can always hit the delete button if necessary.

[guster girl]

Yeah, delete away if people start getting mouthy. Hmmm.... I wonder what would be unethical about it? Wow, I'm going to have to do some more research!

[carole]

It might help you make a decision as whether to vote or not and who for.

[Pam]

I made a promise to myself to stay out of the Dog House but I saw this thread and clicked on it because I didn't think it would be politicial. WRONG! I just wanted to clear one thing up. Stem cells do not just come from the umbilical cord. Where do stem cells come from?

Pluripotent stem cells are isolated from human embryos that are a few days old. Cells from these embryos can be used to create pluripotent stem cell "lines" —cell cultures that can be grown indefinitely in the laboratory. Pluripotent stem cell lines have also been developed from fetal tissue obtained from fetal tissue (older than 8 weeks of development)

I would never vote for just one item on the table in an election. The differences between these two men is VAST and I and many others believe this is the most important election in my lifetime. I will not go into it here as I have been flamed enough in the Dog House. I just clicked on this thread and saw a fact that needed correcting. I would encourage you to look at ALL of the issues here.

[carole]

Pam thank you for your input, and yes I was aware of that, I know that stem cells are not just from the cord, that is why it is so controversial., but it is something that needed correcting.

I absolutely agree with you, I would not vote someone in just because of one thing I agree with, I was just saying from a NZer's point of view that would be something that would sway me towards Mr Kerry if I were voting, because I have very personal and strong reasons for wanting cell research promoted, just as others will have different opinions and strong views.

I certainly have no intention of anyone being flamed in this thread and will promptly delete it, if anyone is offended.

I accidentally posted this thread, my computer crashed and I did post something similar in the politicial thread, it asked for a subject, which I did think odd at the time, then I noticed I had started a new thread, but I thought oh well, maybe its a good topic for conversation, even if it is controversial,but i could well be wrong here.

[Pam]

Carol, thank you for that. I don't want to get embroiled here either, and had I known this would be a political thread I would have never clicked on it.

Essentially this all boils down to when is a human life in existence and how we treat that life. I know this also stirs up abortion debate as well. There is a bumper sticker that I see a lot and I really admire. It reads “Abortion stops a beating heart.” I would never put it on my car for fear of retribution unfortunately.

When my daughter conceived my grandson she had a routinely done ultrasound, something that was not available when I had my children. I was permitted in the room to view the ultrasound on the screen. What did I see? A beating heart!! Tears flowed down my face as I saw the earliest glimpses of my precious grandson. He was very much alive and I loved him immediately!

I think the thing that I have the hardest time dealing with here at Pet Talk is the extraordinary measures that people will go to for pets who are in such fragile states from abuse and such (and I am not minimizing this nor am I in disagreement). The thing that amazes me is that when we are dealing with a human life at its most fragile we are so quick to say “it’s only a few cells.” It is not. It is a beating heart!

I don't think life should be created to be destroyed. I can understand those who would like this research to continue but I do not believe that killing the innocent to accomplish this is morally correct. I know the flames will come, and if they do so be it. Be aware that once the young and innocent are no longer vauable in a society the next will be the elderly and infirm. There is much to this debate and I won't get involved as I am not really an argumentative person. My heart bleeds for this country and the path it will go down if John Kerry should be elected. End of rant.

[guster girl]

I have actually been advised that even if it's just choosing one thing about a candidate that will directly affect me or people I know, or one thing that I am passionate about, that's what I should go with when I vote. Because so much of the election is still unclear to me, I'm just trying to find one thing about one of the candidates that means something to me, and, that isn't so blurry, so, that I can comfortably say I voted because of something that meant something to me. I'm still trying to figure it out, and, I probably will, yet again, not vote.

[micki76]

Originally posted by Pam
I think the thing that I have the hardest time dealing with here at Pet Talk is the extraordinary measures that people will go to for pets who are in such fragile states from abuse and such (and I am not minimizing this nor am I in disagreement). The thing that amazes me is that when we are dealing with a human life at its most fragile we are so quick to say “it’s only a few cells.” It is not. It is a beating heart!

No flamethrowers here. I completely agree with you on this.

[lizbud]

Originally posted by guster girl
I have actually been advised that even if it's just choosing one thing about a candidate that will directly affect me or people I know, or one thing that I am passionate about, that's what I should go with when I vote. Because so much of the election is still unclear to me, I'm just trying to find one thing about one of the candidates that means something to me, and, that isn't so blurry, so, that I can comfortably say I voted because of something that meant something to me. I'm still trying to figure it out, and, I probably will, yet again, not vote.

I believe that if you really don't have a clear idea about the
issues & each candidates views on the issues,by now, you should not vote blindly. I certainly don't mean for this to be a slam on you
personally. It is very hard to get a clear picture of someone's
intentions if elected President, but is very easy to check into
pass actions to predict future ones.

[moosmom]

Pam,

This is in no way flaming anyone, so please, do not take offense.

I am not voting for Kerry JUST BECAUSE he's not against stem cell research. There are many other factors.

I stand corrected on where the stem cells come from. But think of it this way...

I can understand those who would like this research to continue but I do not believe that killing the innocent to accomplish this is morally correct.

women have been having abortions since Roe vs. Wade in 1973 (correct me if I'm wrong on the year). It's a fact. Everyone has their own beliefs for or against it. That is what THEY believe and that's fine. But, in the meantime, millions of stem cells are being discarded when, in fact, they can do some GOOD. So while I understand YOUR reasoning, I also feel that if women are going to have abortions (which, let's face it, they ARE) why not make something good come out of it.

Am I making sense? Anyway, that's my take on it.

[Lady's Human]

President Bush is not against stem cell research. His decision regarding EMBRYONIC stem cell research was an attempt to balance the advance of science and morality. Stem cell research not utilizing embryonic stem cells, like research involving adult stem cells and stem cells from the umbilical cord blood is unaffected by the federal rules regarding Embryonic stem cell research.

[lizzielou742]

FYI

http://stemcells.nih.gov/index.asp
http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/ethics.asp

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/r...2004_1004.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010809-2.html


I am all for embryonic stem cell research. I don't think something grown in a lab into a few cells can be considered human, especially if it has no chance of ever developing into a fetus. But, I'm pro-choice too, so what did you expect?