You are incorrect they were selling those signs for ten dollars at several places I have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasvermont
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You are incorrect they were selling those signs for ten dollars at several places I have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasvermont
They are free in my part of the country! Sorry. Lighten up!
You can go on line and buy all the election items you'd like. They would love for folks to pay for their expenses, but you don't have to....... You can get the stuff for free!
I think you are missing the point here, anyway.
The entire topic was about a friend playing a prank on friends, right?
If you bothered to read my first post I was thinking of doing the same thing to my brother in law, I never criticized Marigold for this I just don't like it when facts are incorrect. And actually it doesn't matter if I pay for something or not once it is my property it is stealing if someone takes it.
Ok, I am not going to go on with this.
Have at each other.
Ok kiddo....
that's not true. just because YOU didn't pay for your sign doesn't mean that some people didn't pay for theirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasvermont
I know LOTS of people that paid for their signs.
And it IS against the law to steal them... google it.
What a waste of money... I sure wouldn't pay any of our money for a sign... in fact I think they should pay ME... but the fact of the matter is... some people DO pay for them and it IS illegal to steal them... whether you like it or not.
I mean... I don't care if she played a prank as I don't care about the signs one way or another. But to some people... they matter AND they pay for them AND it is illegal to steal them. so if her neighbor happened to get a burr up his butt about it then it would be her fault and it would be theft. Just saying.
You don't have to like the law... you just have to abide by it :)
Kelly, you definitely need to do alot more reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahsMommy
Do you know the US Health Care system is rated 37th in the world? After most every so-called "socialized" country in the Western World. Our system is number one -- in cost.
No one is attacking you for who you are any more than you are attacking Obama for who he is. People are questioning what you say -- not who you are. There is a difference.
But you cannot say this...and then express strong opinions without being question. If you ignore what the candidates are saying...where are you getting your information?Quote:
I'm uneducated, I don't spend ANY time researching the issues and I completely ignore the candidates.
I think the fine art of sarcasm might be lost on you.Quote:
But you cannot say this... and then express strong opinions without being question. If you ignore what the candidates are saying...where are you getting your information?
THIS is what I'm trying to say. You ALL know me, I DON'T start fights or attack unless I am attacked unfairly.Quote:
Originally Posted by RICHARD
I'll admit that I tend to think people believe the same (especially here!) as I in the area of respectfulness and that I state MY opinion, its JUST that, MY OPINION. I neglect to realize that it can be taken wrong, and I'll be the first to admit that I'm sorry if it came accross another way.
I not only am a patient (nearly daily) constantly for 13+ years, but I've also worked in our medical industry for 6+ years! I'm currently paying nearly $650 in COBRA monthly and I STILL wouldn't want socialized care....even if I had to live in my car and pay only my COBRA!! Until you've been there, just like with ANYTHING ELSE, you really don't completely get the severity.
Quote:
But you cannot say this... and then express strong opinions without being question. If you ignore what the candidates are saying...where are you getting your information?
Yea, thanks for explaining my comment, blue. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by blue
Sara, I meant it saracastically in response to a comment made by Lizbud. :D
The ignorance of our citizens regarding the health care system makes me want to crap my pants.
You want the government to stay out of your private lives, but allow them to dictate the length your hospital stays and what kind of treatment you receive.
In effing credible.
Should I ever become ill and have no positive outlook, I'll pack up a bag and go for a long hike in the mountains rather than having to navigate the HC system.
So, it you get ill with something that could have been treated sooner,remember, It's what you wanted.:rolleyes:
I guess I don't understand the question. Why on earth would I fear someone because of their race or religion? I have a TON of friends that are Muslim, and have many, many respectful, open discussions with them on their religion JUST so I can learn more about what the people I care about believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by jenn_librarian
As far as race? Seriously? I hope this doesn't come out wrong, but I WISH I was born black. Honestly. I am infatuated with Maya Angelou and Toni Morrison. I've read EVERYTHING they've ever written or uttered. (along with many, many other authors that are similar, or write the same genre) I've even seen Maya Angelou speak at our local Civic Center and it was by far the GREATEST day! My bookshelves are full of nearly every book they sell at Borders or Barnes and Noble from the Black (used to be African American) History (and sometimes, Literature or Bios) section. I frequently volunteer for the Urban League Council (2 times yearly for 5 years thus far). The culture and family togetherness (I realize this isn't nearly always the case) appeal to me. I come from a very small English family and don't have anywhere near the traditions I've learned about in the black community.
All that to answer, no, those things don't scare me in the least.
Obama supports things I don't. That's basically it. He seems to be uneducated on a lot of things that matter to me. He frequently rubs me the wrong way, for many reasons.
There are things I do like about him as well. But when it comes down to it, I'm fearful about what will happen to our country war, money, healthcare-wise as well as ethically.
Kelly, you said this. In bold. That was my point. I watch the news. Who he "surrounds" himself with. That's why I was asking who exactly are you against him "surrounding" himself with. If you're talking about the guy they say did the terrorist stuff... eh. They've dealt with that, and that was just one person and it wasn't something that was going on when Obama was with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahsMommy
That was all. I wasn't even trying to say you were being racist or anything. I just want to know who you are referring to. I wasn't trying to be argumentative, I don't want it to come across that way!
How long our hospital stays are, are already dictated. That's how they decide how much the insurance covers and all that happy stuff. "Your insurance pays for ___ number of days of care after the heart surgery." You're not going to be staying longer unless there's issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by RICHARD
I worked in health care too. I did billing and collections.
Either way you look at it, it's dictated.
I also lived overseas and dealt with socialized healthcare. As a non-citizen (I was covered as I was a minor in Sweden). I never had an issue with it.
Not that we're Sweden, cause we're not. We're a lot larger. However, they did manage to handle their health care rather well.
So DRG means D*mned Regulatory Government?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by jenn_librarian
I remember doing billing and coding and right in the ICD-9 book (what number are they up to now??) it would tell you how many days aftercare were covered by which procedure. So, if you had something done, and came in for a follow up, if there was a 10 day window, and you came in on day 11, the doc could bill a visit.
I guess DRG can mean whatever you want it to mean. It's all regulated. PPO, HMO... whatever. You get what you get by what the insurance will cover (or not cover), including length of hospital stay.
I haven't read thru the entire thread but I just wanted to say - that I totally agree - b/c the more I read your posts, Liz, that's exactly what I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by lizbud
B.
S.
Now you know how Kelly and I feel about Obama.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alysser
Nuff Said.
Just standing here with my ten foot pole. :p
I agree with Kelly and Richard on a lot of this. I guess I finally understand all those celebrities who claimed they would move out of the country if Bush won. Well I'm feeling that way now about Obama. I've heard Costa Rica is nice.
I think Obama has shown a history of associating with questionable people and that shows a big flaw in his judgment. I need to know that my president has good judgment in all things, including character. I'd hate to see the positions of cabinet seats, supreme court justices and top aides being filled with the likes of Rev. Wright, Tony Rezko and William Ayers. It goes on to a bigger scale, what does that mean about his associations outside the US? Who is he willing to "sit down" with (i.e. Ahmadinejad)? My brain and my "gut" tell me to run away from Obama.
Oh by the way, I just realized what I said sounded like I was accusing Kelly of saying something wrong. I meant to say what Lizbud posted was uncalled for. I didn't measn for it to come across that way, Sorry if that's what you thought :oQuote:
Originally Posted by shais_mom
My brother is HEAVILY into politics and works for votevets.org. His company rasied 5 millon $ for Obama's campaign. That's not the only reason I'm for Obama of course, I'm not always democratic, I don't like all their veiws, I'd actually say I'm more in between but I can't picture McCain in office and Sarah Palin for Vice pres.
By the way, I really don't see how putting the signs on someone elses lawn is theft? They were not actually stolen, it was a joke. Doesn't seem like theft to me.
For the record, I don't really either like any of the canditates for President at the point. I was really rooting for Hilary Clinton, but that didn't happen. I didn't really like politics much at all until my brother got into it and until I joined Junior Statesmen of America(JSA) at school. I just want to get more involved and educate myself more on the canditates really.
Have you ever been covered in a country with what you call socialized medicine. If not, how can you know what it is like?Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahsMommy
And I am sorry I did not get your sarcasm. It was just that a number of the things you stated as "facts" were incorrect. So I assumed you hadn't done much research.
good for you :) and I mean that sincerely - and it is heartfelt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alysser
if it sounds snide or sarcastic in anyway please accept my apology b/c that isn't my intent. I wish I would have paid more attention when I was younger.
((hugs))
I have :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
I know you weren't asking me.
Quite alright Sparky. I know you did not like the experience. And we have heard from Randi in Denmark who finds it a good experience. ButQuote:
Originally Posted by sparks19
how can you know it is terrible?Quote:
Until you've been there
I think it's all in how it's run, and which government is running it. I had no issues with it in Sweden, and they treated me amazingly. The families and friends I had there had no complaints either.
We complained about the price of alcohol, lol. And that you couldn't get much of anything in that department that wasn't Swedish. You had to go on the party boats between Sweden and Denmark to get foreign alcohol, and bring it back home with you. Fun, fun!!
Again, Sweden is a small country, as is Denmark. I don't know how it would work in the states, but I think if they took the models that are used, the ones that work well, it can be achieved.
Since Sweden has been brought up at least once...
Ive been enjoying a tobbaco product of theirs for the last week or more. Its called Snus, its tobbaco pouches you put under your lip. Good stuff and helps keep me from smoking without the nastiness of chewing tobbaco.
Jen_Librarian,
I'm sorry I didn't read through your question correctly. I think this thread has my BP up and I have low BP, normally!! ;)
My response would not have been nearly as perfect as Jazzcat's:
I believe you can make excuses (truly valid ones) about a lot of things, but we CHOOSE who we spend our free time with. While open-mindedness is a good thing, associating with people that are dangerous or affiliated with danger/hate/evil will NEVER have a valid reason. We know a whole lot about the people we associate ourselves with...Quote:
I agree with Kelly and Richard on a lot of this. I guess I finally understand all those celebrities who claimed they would move out of the country if Bush won. Well I'm feeling that way now about Obama. I've heard Costa Rica is nice.
I think Obama has shown a history of associating with questionable people and that shows a big flaw in his judgment. I need to know that my president has good judgment in all things, including character. I'd hate to see the positions of cabinet seats, supreme court justices and top aides being filled with the likes of Rev. Wright, Tony Rezko and William Ayers. It goes on to a bigger scale, what does that mean about his associations outside the US? Who is he willing to "sit down" with (i.e. Ahmadinejad)? My brain and my "gut" tell me to run away from Obama.
**AGAIN, IMO. ;) **
Sara,
Talk to Nommilyn or Slick about their healthcare system. While geographically similar in size, but not exactly in population. Slick has to PAY for a supplement just to get into a Doctor WHEN SHE WANTS and for TESTS THAT SHE NORMALLY HAS TO WAIT FOR. Have YOU ever had an HMO? I don't have to try drugs to know they're bad for me....or go to a quack doctor to know its not a good idea.
You've had experience with American bureaucracy, have you seen many well-run, consumer/people-benefiting government agencies that actually DO what they're supposed to do? When ones health is at stake....you have NOTHING else without it.
I also never stated my examples as FACT, If I did, I'm sorry. I get my information from a large combination of magazines, online blogs/articles/newspapers, paper newspapers, radio and television - MUCH comes DIRECTLY from the candidates mouths. Such as: yesterday Obama SAID that he wants to make sure some waitress can pay her rent (because she's barely making her rent) while talking to "Joe (Samuel) the Plumber". He said, that if the people like this waitress had more money (from the GOVERNMENT, ie: your EXTRA tax dollars), she'd be able to thrive. What happened to MAKING YOUR OWN LIVING?? WORKING HARD??? BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR ONES SELF??? (I'm not yelling, just emphasizing. :D )
Do you make $250,000 (profit) per year? (DONT answer this one.) If you did, would you want your money going to people that refuse to get a better job and lease on life? People that just want to stay where they are, griping about how they don't make enough, but FAILING to DO ANYTHING about it?? NOT ME! If I start making that much, I would be HORRIFIED if MY money that I worked my butt off for was taken from me just so some lazy person can go get a new car this year - that they cannot afford. NO WAY!
SIGNS: My parents donated (along with many people in our areas - both Rep and Dem) money to the Republican Party and were given McCain/Palin signs and buttons. I would imagine they'd give them to you free if you asked to support that way. If someone took this from my parents front lawn, there'd be hell to pay. You don't mess with people's stuff...free or paid for. ESPECIALLY a neighbor regarding politics. I DO see the humor, this isn't my point, its that you've offended a neighbor (you said he got mad) that you have to live with for a long time. If he didn't get mad, it'd be different.
The thing that really turns me off is the "I was only 8 years old when Ayers was bombing shiat up" or his "That's not true" when confronted with the fact that he was in Ayers house to launch his 'career'. THe rev Wright problem? "I never heard him say anything about the U.S." Or, his ability to purchase a home with the help of Rezko.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahsMommy
I'd give him a break and would have considered voting for him-until he started to dodge the questions that came out of his associations-Why not man-up and get the doubt out into the open? Notice that all his buddies have gone to ground because they don't want to be held accountable for what they have said or done.
From Wiki-on the pub of his memoirs-
Much of the controversy about Ayers during the decade since 2000 stems from an interview he gave to The New York Times on the occasion of the memoir's publication.The reporter quoted him as saying "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough", and, when asked if he would "do it all again," as saying "I don't want to discount the possibility." Ayers has not denied the quotes, but he protested the interviewer's characterizations in a Letter to the Editor published September 15, 2001: "This is not a question of being misunderstood or 'taken out of context', but of deliberate distortion"[/B]
LOLOL,
If I was BO I would have taken steps to make sure that the Ayers question would have never come up again. Of course, like any radical idiot, they become part of the 'system' that they plotted against for so long. THey found out that blowing themselves up and robbing banks put them in jail, where they were useless to their cause. That's the funniest part about old radical hippies- they sell out, but to keep their ideal, they clean up, take a bath and play it cool while they dream of taking down the same 'man' that they mirror so shamelessly.
All BO had to do was address the idiots that he was connected to. Just come out and say something contrite like "WA was a radical bomber in the 60's, I did have a connection with him and did launch my poli career at his home, I wasn't well versed in his background at the time and regret that there has been this kind of coverage in the media about that association"
No, Instead he acts like a lying school kid that was part of the window breaking spree at the local elementary school. "Well, It wasn't me.""I didn't know they were breaking windows until afterwards' "I didn't hear/see anything''
IT's a patently dishonest little sidestep and people are tagged as haters or racists when they push the issue.
Kelly, have you ever been down on your luck and had to collect unemployment insurance? If so, you're welcome. My taxes pay for that. And I will not call you any of the names you have plastered on others who accept assistance from the government.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahsMommy
I don't like to see anyone -- especially children -- who cannot get medical care because of our system.
I think I can safely guarantee I pay more taxes than you do. Of course I do not enjoy paying them. But I consider it the price I pay to live in what I hope is a civilized society.
I have been fortunate in the parents to whom I was born, the education I receive, my ability to use my talents to make a good living. I do not take those things for granted.
But I do recognize not everyone has had the same advantages. And I have compassion for those who are less fortunate -- who have a more difficult time in life.
If some of the money I earn goes to helping them have adequate medical care -- I am okay with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenn_librarian
I hear ya on that one.
Back home a case of beer was over $40 :O and is supposedly going up to $50 last I heard.
The health care thing.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
The most telling quote, IMHO.
"People who were already able to afford health care began to stop paying for it so they could get it for free," said Dr. Kenny Fink, the administrator for Med-QUEST at the Department of Human Services. "I don't believe that was the intent of the program."
Well, DUH.
Now, what do we think happens when this happens on a national scale?
I understand a need for a better way to cover more people. Whatever that answer is, it is NOT the government doing it.
Oh jeesh! You know very well what I mean....
Again, please take what I say with your knowledge of ME!
Sara, I love you to no end, but please, read what I write with some context in mind. I don't have time to argue each and every comment I make, although I stand by them.
I strictly stated that this was regarding people that CHOOSE to only work part-time and CHOOSE to rely on the government for the rest of whatever they owe, want or are responsible for. We ALL know these people. Also the people that complain they only make a certain amount of money, but don't TRY to get another p/t job or educate/train themselves to better their situation - WITH government help is FINE with me!!! I agree that we ALL need help now and then, but don't take $$ from people who've earned it the hard way to give to people that EXPECT IT.
I hope that's clear.
AGREED!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckstop31
I agree that EVERYONE deserves care and treatment - 500%!!! If you cannot afford it, there are programs, if they aren't in place, they SHOULD BE!
I experienced socialized healthcare in Italy, for 13 years of my life and it was a good experience. Never did me or my family ever spend sleepless nights thinking about how we were going to pay for drs. appointments and surgeries and general care, until we moved to the States. I love it here but the healthcare system is messed up. I really don't understand why people are afraid of it here. If organized correctly it can be a great thing, for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
The only ones who should fear it are the insurance companies.
that's a big if lol. I think that's why it doesn't work in Ontario (at least not for me or just about anyone I know... which isn't exactly a large part of the population lol). It has been so mismanaged and they have to keep cutting funding and cutting funding and that means less dr's, less nurses and A LOT less beds.Quote:
Originally Posted by beeniesmom
a friend of mine just had a baby and she was almost two weeks over due and she was supposed to be induced. The date of her induction she went in and they said "Oh sorry all our beds are full. come back tomorrow" so she went back the next day and they were still full so they told her to go home and they would call her when they were ready. 4 days after her original induction date she finally got in. Not ONE hospital in London had ONE bed open? they told her that if she went in to labor she would have to go to another town 45 minutes away and hope that they had beds. I'm not exaggerating this.
So... seeing how badly the system CAN be mismanaged with a population no where CLOSE to the US... and seeing how bad the government has screwed up just about every other program. I don't have a lot of faith that it will be organized correctly. :)
I heard nightmare stories about Canadian and English healthcare in particular too. I really think the US can pull it off, if it's done the right way.
I'm sorry about the treatment your friend got. :(
Thanks... it"s all good now. Now she has a happy and healthy baby boy... but I guess the dangers of being so far overdue... he was 10;bs 10 oz. YIKES :eek: lolQuote:
Originally Posted by beeniesmom
That is incredible.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks19
The least the facility could have done is placed her into an ER bed? A triage area bed? A post op bed?
The reason that physicians DO NOT WANT TO DEAL with the government is the turn around on the payments for services rendered, that and malpractice insurance for doctors is driving them out of certain specialties.
A good surgeon can do two cholecystectomies and two or three hernia repairs in a day. One heart surgeon will do one valve replacement and a couple of vein strippings on a person's leg.
The money is made on the hard operations, But, it's also lost on how many people you have in the room with the surgeon. For a simple hernia? One surgeon, an anesthesiologist, scrub and circulator. For a heart valve? 6? more?
If there is to be any kind of health care reform in the United States it has to be done from the top to the bottom. It's not without people fighting the system and the changes.
IF HCR means that your coverage will have to absorb or make room for government subsidised members, you will see a drop in the quality of your HC and the type of tests available to you.
The key to the problem that everyone brings up is AFFORDABILITY. I do whine and complain about it because no one else does. People continue to sign over large checks because they have to-they have no choice.
It's either go broke paying a monthly premium now or pass on it and go broke later if you don't have the coverage.
A shame.
I am Canadian, I never once had a problem with health care there.Quote:
Originally Posted by beeniesmom
I have vacationed in England and ended up in E.R., I was taken care of and sent on my way without paying a dime.
I live in Spain, they do make you wait around a lot, but at the end of the day I am not having to decide whether I can feed my children or pay for their medical care. Thank god.
:love:
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