Trick or treat

**NoahsMommy** · 10-15-2008, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by RICHARD

To tell you the truth I have never in my life been so interested in politics until this year. And there is only one reason. It's the idea that some dolt like BO may be my president.

I have the same feelings that Kelly has, there is something that does not sit right with me about his being. There is something about the way he conducts himself that makes me uneasy.

I agree 100 percent with Kelly's views on medical care. Her side is having to navigate the system and mine from working in it for years.

BO's ideas about health care are ridiculous, uneducated and very scary.

Government sponsored health care is a waste of money, time and a dangerous road to travel. Government needs to revise the laws pertaining to malpractice insurance and cap the awards given out by idiot jurors and sought after by money hungry AH lawyers. They also need to revise the laws regarding Med Care/Pharm and supply firms.

THIS is what I'm trying to say. You ALL know me, I DON'T start fights or attack unless I am attacked unfairly.

I'll admit that I tend to think people believe the same (especially here!) as I in the area of respectfulness and that I state MY opinion, its JUST that, MY OPINION. I neglect to realize that it can be taken wrong, and I'll be the first to admit that I'm sorry if it came accross another way.

I not only am a patient (nearly daily) constantly for 13+ years, but I've also worked in our medical industry for 6+ years! I'm currently paying nearly $650 in COBRA monthly and I STILL wouldn't want socialized care....even if I had to live in my car and pay only my COBRA!! Until you've been there, just like with ANYTHING ELSE, you really don't completely get the severity.

**Edwina's Secretary** · 10-16-2008, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by NoahsMommy

I'm currently paying nearly $650 in COBRA monthly and I STILL wouldn't want socialized care....even if I had to live in my car and pay only my COBRA!! Until you've been there, just like with ANYTHING ELSE, you really don't completely get the severity.

Have you ever been covered in a country with what you call socialized medicine. If not, how can you know what it is like?

And I am sorry I did not get your sarcasm. It was just that a number of the things you stated as "facts" were incorrect. So I assumed you hadn't done much research.

**sparks19** · 10-16-2008, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Have you ever been covered in a country with what you call socialized medicine. If not, how can you know what it is like?

.

I have

I know you weren't asking me.

**Edwina's Secretary** · 10-16-2008, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by sparks19

I have

I know you weren't asking me.

Quite alright Sparky. I know you did not like the experience. And we have heard from Randi in Denmark who finds it a good experience. But

Until you've been there

how can you know it is terrible?

**jennielynn1970** · 10-17-2008, 01:54 AM

I think it's all in how it's run, and which government is running it. I had no issues with it in Sweden, and they treated me amazingly. The families and friends I had there had no complaints either.

We complained about the price of alcohol, lol. And that you couldn't get much of anything in that department that wasn't Swedish. You had to go on the party boats between Sweden and Denmark to get foreign alcohol, and bring it back home with you. Fun, fun!!

Again, Sweden is a small country, as is Denmark. I don't know how it would work in the states, but I think if they took the models that are used, the ones that work well, it can be achieved.

**blue** · 10-17-2008, 02:06 AM

Since Sweden has been brought up at least once...

Ive been enjoying a tobbaco product of theirs for the last week or more. Its called Snus, its tobbaco pouches you put under your lip. Good stuff and helps keep me from smoking without the nastiness of chewing tobbaco.

**NoahsMommy** · 10-17-2008, 09:57 AM

Jen_Librarian,
I'm sorry I didn't read through your question correctly. I think this thread has my BP up and I have low BP, normally!!

My response would not have been nearly as perfect as Jazzcat's:

I agree with Kelly and Richard on a lot of this. I guess I finally understand all those celebrities who claimed they would move out of the country if Bush won. Well I'm feeling that way now about Obama. I've heard Costa Rica is nice.

I think Obama has shown a history of associating with questionable people and that shows a big flaw in his judgment. I need to know that my president has good judgment in all things, including character. I'd hate to see the positions of cabinet seats, supreme court justices and top aides being filled with the likes of Rev. Wright, Tony Rezko and William Ayers. It goes on to a bigger scale, what does that mean about his associations outside the US? Who is he willing to "sit down" with (i.e. Ahmadinejad)? My brain and my "gut" tell me to run away from Obama.

I believe you can make excuses (truly valid ones) about a lot of things, but we CHOOSE who we spend our free time with. While open-mindedness is a good thing, associating with people that are dangerous or affiliated with danger/hate/evil will NEVER have a valid reason. We know a whole lot about the people we associate ourselves with...
**AGAIN, IMO.

**

Sara,
Talk to Nommilyn or Slick about their healthcare system. While geographically similar in size, but not exactly in population. Slick has to PAY for a supplement just to get into a Doctor WHEN SHE WANTS and for TESTS THAT SHE NORMALLY HAS TO WAIT FOR. Have YOU ever had an HMO? I don't have to try drugs to know they're bad for me....or go to a quack doctor to know its not a good idea.

You've had experience with American bureaucracy, have you seen many well-run, consumer/people-benefiting government agencies that actually DO what they're supposed to do? When ones health is at stake....you have NOTHING else without it.

I also never stated my examples as FACT, If I did, I'm sorry. I get my information from a large combination of magazines, online blogs/articles/newspapers, paper newspapers, radio and television - MUCH comes DIRECTLY from the candidates mouths. Such as: yesterday Obama SAID that he wants to make sure some waitress can pay her rent (because she's barely making her rent) while talking to "Joe (Samuel) the Plumber". He said, that if the people like this waitress had more money (from the GOVERNMENT, ie: your EXTRA tax dollars), she'd be able to thrive. What happened to MAKING YOUR OWN LIVING?? WORKING HARD??? BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR ONES SELF??? (I'm not yelling, just emphasizing.

)

Do you make $250,000 (profit) per year? (DONT answer this one.) If you did, would you want your money going to people that refuse to get a better job and lease on life? People that just want to stay where they are, griping about how they don't make enough, but FAILING to DO ANYTHING about it?? NOT ME! If I start making that much, I would be HORRIFIED if MY money that I worked my butt off for was taken from me just so some lazy person can go get a new car this year - that they cannot afford. NO WAY!

SIGNS: My parents donated (along with many people in our areas - both Rep and Dem) money to the Republican Party and were given McCain/Palin signs and buttons. I would imagine they'd give them to you free if you asked to support that way. If someone took this from my parents front lawn, there'd be hell to pay. You don't mess with people's stuff...free or paid for. ESPECIALLY a neighbor regarding politics. I DO see the humor, this isn't my point, its that you've offended a neighbor (you said he got mad) that you have to live with for a long time. If he didn't get mad, it'd be different.

**sparks19** · 10-17-2008, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by jenn_librarian

I think it's all in how it's run, and which government is running it. I had no issues with it in Sweden, and they treated me amazingly. The families and friends I had there had no complaints either.

We complained about the price of alcohol, lol. And that you couldn't get much of anything in that department that wasn't Swedish. You had to go on the party boats between Sweden and Denmark to get foreign alcohol, and bring it back home with you. Fun, fun!!

Again, Sweden is a small country, as is Denmark. I don't know how it would work in the states, but I think if they took the models that are used, the ones that work well, it can be achieved.

I hear ya on that one.

Back home a case of beer was over $40 :O and is supposedly going up to $50 last I heard.

**beeniesmom** · 10-17-2008, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Quite alright Sparky. I know you did not like the experience. And we have heard from Randi in Denmark who finds it a good experience. But how can you know it is terrible?

I experienced socialized healthcare in Italy, for 13 years of my life and it was a good experience. Never did me or my family ever spend sleepless nights thinking about how we were going to pay for drs. appointments and surgeries and general care, until we moved to the States. I love it here but the healthcare system is messed up. I really don't understand why people are afraid of it here. If organized correctly it can be a great thing, for everyone.
The only ones who should fear it are the insurance companies.

**sparks19** · 10-17-2008, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by beeniesmom

I experienced socialized healthcare in Italy, for 13 years of my life and it was a good experience. Never did me or my family ever spend sleepless nights thinking about how we were going to pay for drs. appointments and surgeries and general care, until we moved to the States. I love it here but the healthcare system is messed up. I really don't understand why people are afraid of it here. If organized correctly it can be a great thing, for everyone.
The only ones who should fear it are the insurance companies.

that's a big if lol. I think that's why it doesn't work in Ontario (at least not for me or just about anyone I know... which isn't exactly a large part of the population lol). It has been so mismanaged and they have to keep cutting funding and cutting funding and that means less dr's, less nurses and A LOT less beds.

a friend of mine just had a baby and she was almost two weeks over due and she was supposed to be induced. The date of her induction she went in and they said "Oh sorry all our beds are full. come back tomorrow" so she went back the next day and they were still full so they told her to go home and they would call her when they were ready. 4 days after her original induction date she finally got in. Not ONE hospital in London had ONE bed open? they told her that if she went in to labor she would have to go to another town 45 minutes away and hope that they had beds. I'm not exaggerating this.

So... seeing how badly the system CAN be mismanaged with a population no where CLOSE to the US... and seeing how bad the government has screwed up just about every other program. I don't have a lot of faith that it will be organized correctly.

**beeniesmom** · 10-17-2008, 03:30 PM

I heard nightmare stories about Canadian and English healthcare in particular too. I really think the US can pull it off, if it's done the right way.
I'm sorry about the treatment your friend got.

**RICHARD** · 10-17-2008, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by sparks19

Not ONE hospital in London had ONE bed open? they told her that if she went in to labor she would have to go to another town 45 minutes away and hope that they had beds. I'm not exaggerating this.

So... seeing how badly the system CAN be mismanaged with a population no where CLOSE to the US... and seeing how bad the government has screwed up just about every other program. I don't have a lot of faith that it will be organized correctly.

That is incredible.

The least the facility could have done is placed her into an ER bed? A triage area bed? A post op bed?

The reason that physicians DO NOT WANT TO DEAL with the government is the turn around on the payments for services rendered, that and malpractice insurance for doctors is driving them out of certain specialties.

A good surgeon can do two cholecystectomies and two or three hernia repairs in a day. One heart surgeon will do one valve replacement and a couple of vein strippings on a person's leg.

The money is made on the hard operations, But, it's also lost on how many people you have in the room with the surgeon. For a simple hernia? One surgeon, an anesthesiologist, scrub and circulator. For a heart valve? 6? more?

If there is to be any kind of health care reform in the United States it has to be done from the top to the bottom. It's not without people fighting the system and the changes.

IF HCR means that your coverage will have to absorb or make room for government subsidised members, you will see a drop in the quality of your HC and the type of tests available to you.

The key to the problem that everyone brings up is AFFORDABILITY. I do whine and complain about it because no one else does. People continue to sign over large checks because they have to-they have no choice.

It's either go broke paying a monthly premium now or pass on it and go broke later if you don't have the coverage.

A shame.