Please help

[samssmurf]

Four years ago I went to my area SPCA, grudgingly entertaining the idea of adopting a cat. I sat down amidst a litter of kittens, and immediately this little green-eyed buff ball of fur crawled into my lap and started purring. Two days later I came to take him home. Hobbes was this hybrid of antelope, dog, human, and monster. Relatives and acquaintances who had owned multiple cats for decades were constantly saying, "That's so weird! Cats aren't supposed to do that!" followed by fits of hysterics. Two months ago I had this nagging feeling that something wasn't right with Hobbes, but there was nothing specific I could put my finger on. So I ignored the feeling until I tried to pick him up a few weeks ago and he cried out. Hobbes never cries. Not even the time I tripped over him in the dark and stepped on his tail, followed by his hind leg. Two weeks of bouncing back and forth between my vet and an emergency hospital ruled out leukemia, cancer, AIDS, FIP, and heart disease. Finally, last week he was diagnosed with kylothorax. The "good" news is that the fluid is thick, so it hasn't leaked through the thin membrane that separates his lungs. Only his left lung is being affected. The bad news of course is that the fluid is hard to remove because it's so thick. Hobbes won't eat any of the low-fat food the vet has given us. We're on our second brand now. He eats a handful, then will throw up any more that he eats. He won't take his Rutin either. We tried it in a pill form, then we bought a pill crusher and tried to hide it in food and various treats. No go. If anyone has any advice about how to get him to take his Rutin, I would be so appreciative. I'm at the end of my rope here.

[Barbara]

There are some chylothorax kitties here. One of them, Bassett had surgery and all went very well for another year but then she passed away.

But there is also Catsnclay's Lucky who lives with this condition for quite some time.

You could PM Catsnclay or search for Chylothorax on the board. I am sure there is a lot of information available.

The pilling is a special thing. There is a kind of pill injection thing that you can get at the vet's. Some people here manage very well with it. With my Tigris it didn't work. Pilling Tigris is an act for 2 persons. I out the pill in some liver pate, my husband coaxes Tigris between his knees (he has garden gloves on ), I put the liver pate plus pill on the thin end of a long icecream spoon, my husband opens Tigris' mouth, I shove the pate in, he closes the mouth and waits until the Tigris boy has swallowed.

Sounds cruel but you get exercise in getting it in quickly and decided and Tigris basically loved the taste. After some days he did not dart away afterwards but just was happy again when it was over.

All the best for you and Hobbes.

[TopCat3]

Hi Sammsmurf, welcome aboard. Aaah the joys of pilling a cat I gave up after several attempts, finding them spat out behind the couch or hidden under a rug etc. I tried hiding them in a piece of cheese - no go. The cheese was eaten, the pill discarded in some dark corner. I tried crushing to a fine powder and mixing in with the wet food - no go. The whole meal was disdainfully foregone with a look of starved martyrdom. I tried the pill catapult/syringe thing that Barbara mentioned, I didn't even get close (not close to the pill going down, I meant close to the cat...) When a liquid or cream form of the med was available, I opted for that and squirted it down the throat (hisssss, spittt, droooool) and ended up licking it off my own lips. Tried smearing it on the paw for licking off - no go, it got smeared on the couch or carpet. Finally, one day, I found some clear instructions somewhere, and I said,"That's it, I'm putting this pill down your throat and that's final". I followed the instructions, and it worked. I've tried to type them out in an easy to follow (I hope) format and attach them for you herewith. The trick is to be very clear and confident and pass that on to the cat. They pick up on trepidation real fast! Good luck and let us know how you go

[TopCat3]

Sorry about the format, Sammsmurf. I'd got it all nicely laid out in Word, list fashion, and it wouldn't let me post it, had to save it as a text file then attach it to the post, so it's not so easy to read or follow. I'm pretty new to doing anything fancy on a computer/internet so hope you'll bear with me and can use this successfully. Thanks.

[Amber A]

Hi, my cat Peppers, was diagnosed with chylothorax this last week, when we had to rush him in for emergency treatment for breathing problems and they drained 213 ml of fluid from his chest. That vet was awfully short with us, and offered no extra info, nor even the suggestion of low fat food or Rutin. It was another clinic I took him to for follow up that told us about that - they can't thus far find an underlying cause - Peppers is only 4, he's an indoor cat, his heart is strong, he's otherwise healthy.

I have been online for hours and have seen very little info or treatment. Arg. Not happy. Peppers still has some fluid in his chest, but they don't think he needs to be tapped yet, as he's not in discomfort - in fact, he's finally gone to my daughter's top bunk bed, and the top of his very tall cat post for the first time in a week yesterday.

Also - what low fat foods have other chylothorax kitties tolerated well - he's putting his nose up at it! And giving him the Rutin! What a chore. He can't stand it - I just pry his mouth open and put it at the back of his mouth and close him up again. I suppose I will end up with some interesting tiny calluses on my fingers from his teeth.... .....

I hope I hear from some of you. I am feeling a bit alone in this.

[Cinder & Smoke]

Sorry about the format, Sammsmurf.

I'd got it all nicely laid out in Word, list fashion, and it wouldn't let me post it, had to save it as a text file then attach it to the post, so it's not so easy to read or follow. I'm pretty new to doing anything fancy on a computer/internet so hope you'll bear with me and can use this successfully. Thanks.

Try this version of TopCat3's instructions >>>

1) Get the seated/struggling cat firmly under your arm and cup your non-dominant hand
over its head so that the thumb and middle finger are on either side
of the hinge joint of the jaw.

2) Get the pill ready holding it between the thumb and THIRD
(middle) finger of the other (dominant) hand.

3) Press firmly on the cat’s jaw hinge-joint with the thumb and middle finger
of the hand that’s holding its head.
Cat’s mouth will automatically start to open.

4) Very quickly, place the FOURTH (ring) finger of the hand holding the pill
onto the cat’s lower front teeth and firmly depress the lower jaw,
so cat’s mouth is open wide.
(If you’re sufficiently "together" at this point you can croon "Open wide!"
in a coaxing tone, so cat gets used to what it has to do, over time.)

5) Simultaneously pass the thumb and third finger holding the pill
across your fourth finger and those teeth,
into the mouth as far back as you can and toss the pill to the back of the tongue.
Cat’s reflex will be to swallow.
(Actually, cat’s reflex might be to bite, so get those fingers out double-quick!)

6) The hand holding the cat’s head should now quickly change position
to "muzzle" the cat gently so it can’t open its mouth and spit out the pill.
Stroke under the chin and tap the nose ever so gently with the free (bitten?) hand
to encourage continued swallowing. Encouraging crooning here helps "Good girl, all done".
The same verbal cues each time gets the cat involved in the routine (supposedly…)

7) If the cat allows/sticks around long enough, praise, cuddling and
a treat as a reward would be nice.

8) With dominant hand, reach for glass of wine, cup of hot sweet tea, or sleeping pills,
mopping brow with non-dominant hand. Time for a nice lie down.

/s/ TopCat3

[kb2yjx]

Reading this thread has been an education for me!!! I have NEVER heard of chylothorax before!! But, I had a friend that was having problems give her cat a heart med, and she had it compounded. Best bet would be to ask your vet about this. They are in Delaware and there is a place there that compounds meds. Drs. Foster& Smith catalogue offer the service,too!! I hope that helps!! Thanks for the learning experience!!!

[Lizzie]

Pilling is so variable, cat to cat, but is never easy. I've also gone the compounded route and it worked for me. The liquid that the drug is suspended in has a very strong taste (you can choose liver, beef or a fish flavor) to hide the bitterness of the pill, so you don't get foaming and spitting. Also, lifting the side of a cat's lip and sliding in the dropper is easier than opening the whole mouth. I was even able to get heart medicine compounded into an oitment that I rubbed into my cat's ears. I would never, ever have been able to medicate her otherwise. I was able to sit beside her hideaway place, fuss her head and slip a couple of (gloved) fingers into her ear to massage in the medication. Of course, the medication you are using may not be one that can be absorbed by the thin skin of the ears. I had the compounded meds shipped to me.

When pilling a cat, I also slide a few centimeters of their lip over their teeth with the hand I'm using to open their jaw. This makes a cat hesitate about biting down on your fingers since they would bite down on themselves also.

I continue to be amazed that Taranis, my most difficult and growly, snappy cat, actually opens her mouth for me to pill her. I regard it as a gift to my calloused fingers.

[samssmurf]

Amber A, sorry to hear about Peppers. When we were trying to diagnose Hobbes, we didn't get a whole lot of help or compassion from the vets we went to either. I know how frustrating that can be! My Hobbes was four at the time of diagnosis and an indoor cat also, and I was just blown away by how suddenly he got sick and how serious everyone assured me it was. All three vets told me Hobbes would not live another three months, but as of today, eight months later, he's doing great. We finally got him to tolerate the Rutin by crushing the pill and mixing it in with yogurt. He's absolutely crazy about raspberry yogurt for some strange reason, and our vet said it was fine in small doses, so he gets about half a teaspoon. He was drained twice, but he's doing really well now. I hope things go well for Peppers and your family.

[Beauty17]

For one of our cats, I found buttering the pill helped to encourage and ease swallowing - following more or less the procedure described, involving opening the mouth with one hand and pilling with the other. If you have a second person to hold the cat by the body, you can even do the pilling with the cat sitting on an elevated surface.

[Catty1]

Kirsten has a med that is formulated into a paste and put in the cat's ear. It is a bit more expensive, but less stressful.

Ask your vet about it.

hugs
Catty1

[TopCat3]

Well it was funny seeing that old post of mine being brought back to life! I have been pilling Cleo morning and night since Sept/Oct using the method I described.

I find it's best to have her on a fairly high object in a small room. The top of the washing machine in the small laundry is just the right height and works well for us both. Trouble is she is now a little too used to the procedure and starts to drool as soon as we get started, so the pills are sort of sliding out sometimes .

We have learned that if we inch our way along to the edge of the washing machine and drool hard enough it all drips to the floor, tablets and all, even into the cat-litter sack, and it's fun to watch Mummy scrabbling around in that confined space trying to find the 1/8 Norvask and 1/4 neomercasol, which at about $1 a day is worth trying to find. Sometimes Mummy is too quick and gets the syringe with the 2mls potassium solution in to wash it all down quickly before the tabs can be lost.

And sometimes she doesn't

And afterwards we have a lovely long cuddle, and discuss why it's important for me to swallow and not spit.

Of course, catching me first is a merry dance under the bed, under the table, weaving between the chair legs, then when I'm finally caught and I have the "Oh no" expression, I get a cuddle beforehand too!

Actually it's quite fun really.

[Barbara]

I'm glad to hear Hobbes is doing well and hope he can enjoy his tablespoon of raspberry yoghurt for years to come