Aggression towards Cats

**jennifert** · 12-19-2001, 04:37 PM

This has probably already been covered in another posting but I didn't se anything that applied to my situation so I took the liberty of starting a new one.
Duncan seems to have a problem with cats. He actually seems to have a problem with all small animals but cats are the only ones I have ever seen him catch. He loves to chase squirrels and will even run at birds. Luckily, they run up a tree or fly away and are safe. One day, I was walking into my boyfriend's apartment building with Duncan. He was on his leash and even had his "gentle leader" on. Unbeknownst to me, there was a cat in the bushes next to the door. I was having trouble getting the door open (it was locked, my hands were full, I couldn't get the key in, etc.) I dropped Duncan's leash and had my foot on it. Well, that is when he saw the cat and the cat started to run! Duncan ran after it and caught it. ( We were in a parking lot area with the closest tree 100 yards away.) He picked it up and shook it a little side to side before it got away. He then chased it some more in circles and caught it once more before it again got away. The whole catching part when the cat was in his mouth only lasted a few seconds but it was appalling to see. I was trying to catch him and stop him the whole time. Finally the cat found respite under a car and I grabbed Duncan and brought him inside. I went back to find the cat and make sure it was OK but it was gone and I haven't seen it since. I have asked all the neighbors and none of them claim to own the cat or have seen it. (It was an adult large black cat.) Anyway, I was completely shocked at this behavior by Duncan. He gets along with other dogs just fine, although he does love to chase the small ones. I have never seen him act aggressively like that before to another animal. It's upsetting. I guess I can never bring him around cats because he will try to kill them as it appears as if that is what he was trying to do on that occasion. Is this the general consensus of everyone? He is still a puppy at 1 yr old, maybe he can change? Mellow out?

Any opinions? I'm sorry to the cat lovers if this upset you? Please don't snd me hate mail! I love cats and I want Duncan to be able to get along with them!

**slleipnir** · 12-19-2001, 05:09 PM

Jen, i can't be of much help, but thats like my older dog, he seems to like hate them with a passion or something, most dogs want to chase them for fun and play, like josie, but rufus doesn't. He caught one once (lucky me the owner was right there..it was there yard) and he jumped on in and started to bite it, but i grabed him before he could do any damage. Another time (my neighbors cat used to come over and sit in front of him (he was on a chain back then) and she would clean her self, just tanting poor ruf, hes strangling himself trying to get to her, being a strong dog her broke hes collor in half and jumped after the cat (who i must say jumped atleast 2 ft once she saw what has happened) she darted under a fence and up a huge tree, and didn't come down for the rest of the day, ruf jumped right overr the fence which came to a bit of shock to me cause it was very high..then once he realized she was gone, he took off for his little night adventure. I still wonder why he hates them so much, but he hates milk men (used to..) also, i think one hit him with a stick once..The cat never came over again..
Can anyone elses dog seem to know the milk or paper man from other ppl?? It seems weird but he'd bark only at them, no one else.

Anyway, sorry i wasn't of any help just wanted to say something similar has happened to me

**jennifert** · 12-19-2001, 05:16 PM

Thanks for sharing. I appreciate knowing that I'm not the only one who has a dog who seems to go absolutely beserk at the sight of a cat!!! And it's strange how he seems to be so violent towards them. He was a stray for a while. Maybe that influenced his behavior? I have no idea! Duncan is very well behaved most of the time but cats, squirrels and the occasional rabbit that we see on our morning walk and he just seems to lose all control of himself! He doesn't listen to me at all. In fact, it's like I've disappeared! On the way to the park, there are about 2 houses where cats live and he has seen them there before. He STILL remembers and gets all excited and looks down there driveway looking for them again! WEIRD!!

**MichelleN** · 12-20-2001, 01:27 AM

Hmm.. when I first got my dogs, they chased my cats but I think that was just because they had never seen cats before and they soon got out of it (they realised mom was NOT impressed!!). I think your problem is going to be a bit harder to solve.

I might be facing a similar problem soon. I'm moving onto a 2 1/2 acre property fenced with electric fencing. Our neighbours have 5 German Shepherds that are partial to cats! Hopefully my cats have the sense not to go next door!

**carrie** · 12-20-2001, 06:23 PM

Dogs and cats....mmmm.

Dog's chase cats because they tend to run away. The dog has urges that, as people, we can not come close to understanding. It is easy enough to say it is prey drive, it is instinct or the dog sees it as play.

It really does come down to the fact that the dog and the wolf are one and the same animal at the end of the day. The wolf has not been domesticated, the dog has.
We like to think that different breeds exhibit different behaviours because that is how we have manipulated the genetics of the wolf. To an extent breed traits are apparent......but.....the dog is a wolf before it is a spaniel, pointer or terrier. It is a opportunist feeder - a hunter, a scavenger and a reaper.

To contain the dog's behaviour it must come into contact with cats that are secure in their territory and are not likely to flee from the dog. Have you a friend that has cats and dogs? If so taking your dog as often as possible to this environment and letting the cats stand up for themselves will work wonders - given time.
Another thing that works really well is getting a couple of kittens yourself.
Work on your Alpha status and recall and remote down at the same time as feline therapy will help.
The dog is not nasty, bad or evil. You are not a terrible person for having a dog that behaves in this way...it is doing what comes naturally.

**Dixieland Dancer** · 12-21-2001, 08:03 AM

From your picture in the signature it looks like we are talking about either a golden or a flat coated retriever. Either or it doesn't matter, the hunting instinct is very strong and a chase to catch the prey makes it even better. These breeds also have great noses and can smell critters before they even see them.

As Carrie stated this is natural instinct and does not have a reflection on you except to make you mad and / or embarrassed when you can't control the dog from doing this. From a hunting standpoint here is what I would do:

Make sure the dog is well versed in basic obedience commands such as sit, down and come. These need to be done every time you request in all kinds of situations. If your dog doesn't have a handle on these then obedience school can help. When my Dixie or Dusty (both Goldens) are away from me, I can give either a sit or a down command. I usually use a sit in this situation to get the dogs attention and so they can see me better. Then by my tone and body language they can tell I am not too happy. At this point I make sure we have eye contact and give them a "LEAVE IT" command. Next I call them to me and when they come I praise them like crazy and / or reward them with a treat.

I also have a cat so getting them to learn to play gentle with the cat is something I also needed to work on.

**yorkster** · 12-27-2001, 12:35 AM

Jenifert- I adopted a Border Collie/Lab mix in July, and when I got her home it was very apparent that she was not used to cats being around her except to chase.
I grew up with both cats and dogs, and was used to introducing the two, but this was quite a bit different! She was extremely intense about it, and kind of wild acting about it- excited in a way that I had never seen before. There were even a couple of times she groweled at them.
She is also a HUGE chaser of squirrels, birds, etc. - it's the one time that I have not been able to get complete control with her.
It took a long time (a couple of months at least) but it has worked out well, in fact her and one of the cats are 'buddies'.
I had to keep them separated for quite awhile, then slowly bring them together with close supervision. My dog spent the first 2 months with a leash on at all times!
If you like cats, I would get one (or 2!), and it WILL work out

Might take a bit of time and effort, but it is worth it.
Its so cute and rewarding to see my dog and cat together!

I would FOR SURE take a good dog obedience class too- it will help with that and everything else.

To be honest though, I'm still not sure what she would do outside with a strange cat. We have a fenced back yard and she is always on a leash when in public.

[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: yorkster ]

**carrie** · 12-29-2001, 11:05 AM

If the dog is chasing cats in the backyard, it doesn't go in the backyard alone. If you can't control the dog without a lead, it has a lead on.
Remember that these are temporary measures and things WILL change.
It will not be like this for ever if you take charge with realistic targets in mind.

I got your email and will reply in more detail.....soon, I promise! I will do my best to get back to you tomorrow.

**Barbiro** · 12-29-2001, 02:02 PM

Jennifer,

Lady does the exact same thing as Duncan, to the point that I now put the leash on her whenever we go out. I have a lake close to home where there are a lot of people, bikers and joggers. Occasionally, we would take Lady off the leash and she would just walk with us for the full 3 miles around the lake. Lately, she has been misbehaving. God forbid she sees a bird on the grass or in the lake = she goes bezerk trying to catch them! The other day she saw a large cat and pulled the leash so hard she almost knocked me down! The weird part is that it doesn't happen with all cats, only with large ones. My next-door neighbor has a few kittens or young cats and Lady is ok with them. I don't know what the solution is on this one.

**jennifert** · 12-29-2001, 11:34 PM

I really apriciate everyone's input on this situation. Carrie hit the nail on the head...I feel like a "bad dog owner" when Duncan chases and tries to "kill" the cats. He's a great dog, gentle with children and at all the right times but....
Anyway, Carrie, you are also right about the off-leash thing. Duncan is a big dog and very energetic. When I first got him, the people at the shelter were concerned because I don't really have a yard to speak of ( I do, but my roommate's golden has overtaken it and won't share! Duncan won't even poop out there!) So back to the point, Duncan and I go for a walk every morning up this back road that is closed to traffic and I let him run free. He chases squirrels, chipmunks, rabbits and the occasional cat from the neighborhood right up a tree... Duncan will come, sit, stay, lie down on command even from a distance but these animals that run from him seem to make him lose all control!! He'll come back,once they are up a tree..... I guess I need to work with him some more off leash....

**carrie** · 12-30-2001, 03:01 AM

O.K. Now I see in my mind's eye where you are walking him and having problems I can suggest a stategy to help turn him off the little running away things and on to you.
Some off lead work is going to help a lot.
Some consistent Alpha signals from you will also help to convince him that it is not up to him to choose when and what he hunts, that's your job as pack leader.
Whistle training is going to help him too - a very clear signal that he can't misinterpret and cannot fail to hear.
Once he is used to the whistle and is running after something you use the whistle once, turn, and run as fast as you can the other way!! If you can get in behind a tree or hedge to hide and wait that would be great.
After a couple of times doing this start doing it as soon as you see a potential chase animal. If the dog sees it first, do it as soon as you realise he has spotted something.
Let us know how you get on with this if you decide to try it.

**yorkster** · 12-30-2001, 05:16 PM

Carrie- not to move in on jenifert's subject, but I have a similar problem with my dog, Scout. She is REALLY good with my cats, but any little animal running around outdoors is a different story. She is very well behaved most of the time, and will come when called, etc......but when she is chasing something outdoors, she seems a bit out of control.
She is B. Collie/Lab mix, 3 yrs. old.
She has gone through basic obedience, and done very well.

I guess my question is: What kind of whistle? Just a regular type sports whistle?
And also, what do you think of clicker training?

**carrie** · 01-01-2002, 08:07 AM

I have always used torpedo shaped plastic whistles, the type that doesn't have a pea like traditional sport whistles have.

I start with training at feeding time. The dog sits, the bowl is placed on the floor and the dog can eat when two short whistles are made.
The next step is to use the same whistle as recall signal and reward each recall with a small piece of yummy food. (Use the whistle and voice to start with.)

Clicker training has a place and can be great fun - not something I have used with many dogs. Not a huge fan of the method, especially not for novice handlers as I feel that it works better for those with experience. Everyone to their own, however, and I know many people who enjoy it.