What would you do?

[catnapper]

About two years ago, I woke to hearing a fight between my neighbor. I SWORE he was beating her. I was so panicked I woke hubby, who instantly became awake once he realized what I was talking about. He told me to dial 911 and I did. The cops came and they told the cops that she was not being hit, but SHE was the one out of control and he was sitting on her to keep her from doing any harm to him or herself. mmm hmmm... yeah. Right.

Fast forward two years. We've gotten to know them really well, and there were no more instances. They are a wonderful couple. But since they had a baby, we've noticed the fights starting again. Hubby told me he heard their older kids screaming the other night for him to "stop it." and he said it was a really loud fight and he was getting concerned.

I worry about her now. Since we've become friends, I am less willing to call the cops the way I did when they were just a couple living next door to us. Before, it was nameless people I was calling about. Now,I am afraid she's resent me and I'd lose her friendship. I've come to enjoy our conversations over the past two years. But we're not to the point in our friendship where I am comfortable pulling her aside saying "Is he hitting you? Do you need help?"

I'm sure its the stress of the new baby pushing them both to the edg, but hitting your wife is never forgivable. The last time, when we called 911, they were under stress of the wedding, and he was working three jobs. It seems once he's stressed, he gets nasty. My husband is not the most pleasant person to live with when he's tired and stressed, but never ever would he lay a hand on me. I can't imagine what goes through her mind to put up with being hit. Stressed, tired, not a reason!

[Uabassoon]

I'd try to talk to her. Maybe invite her over for tea or something then ask if she's doing well and ask about the baby. First give her the chance to open up to you.

[Maya & Inka's mommy]

Originally posted by Uabassoon
I'd try to talk to her. Maybe invite her over for tea or something then ask if she's doing well and ask about the baby. First give her the chance to open up to you.

I ditto that!

[PJ's Mom]

I agree. It might take some time, but you don't want to become known as the nosy neighbor.

[Oggyflute]

If theres one thing that gets my blood to boil, it's weak pitiful men beating up a women. My sister suffered this with her first marriage. Fortunately the family were able to rescue her from the situation. Her ex doesn't dare come anywhere near me though as he fully expects me to belt him hard. I probably wouldn't now, it was a fair while ago and my sis has remarried a wonderful bloke.

There is no excuse, non what so ever, not any, at any time.

Please help this lady if you can mate. A trouble friendship is probably better than a battered wife.

[kitten645]

I had a really good friend. Male. He was the sweetest kindest most gentle man I've known. Fast forward two years, his wife tells me he's beating her and she has the bruises to prove it. She moves in with me and I call the cops on him. I don't care HOW stressed, depressed, drunk, drugged or screwed up you are, in my book, YOU NEVER HIT A WOMAN. And any man that would do so under any condition is no man. Even if the wife was beating on him, walk away. Drive somewhere. Get away. Whatever it takes. It's not a double standard,it's physics. I don't care, the man is ALWAYS stronger than the woman.
We took the wife to counseling and she lived with us for quite some time while she got her act together. Well a year after she moved out to start her new life, she was back with him. At that point we figured we'd done all we could and threw our hands up. She was capable of making her own decisions and she chose.
I never regretted making those choices. I lost a good friend and in the end it may have ended the same but it was the right thing to do.
These people are impacting YOUR life as well and you have every right to expect peace and to be able to sleep at night. Call the cops and cut the ties if need be.
Claudia

[Corinna]

Better to lose a frendship than knowing you could maybe stop a serious injury or death.

[Cataholic]

I echo Corrinna. And, would approach it as Laura suggested. Maybe plan it to be a couple deal thing...like first, go borrow something...and make the chat light..kids, housework, the weather...then, return whatever you borrowed. This time, open up YOURSELF....."things are soo tough for me right now, I feel like I can't control anything, kids are acting up...". That gives her the chance to open up.

If she doesnt...then, I think you need to step it up several notches. People that beat their spouses often turn to the children. A battered woman has much more to it than just someone being beaten. There is a psychology to it that I don't profess to understand, but, it may well mean she will continue to deny things.

Be comforting, non-judgmental, and a friend to her. Good luck.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

I have to chime in from the woman's point of view. When I first got out of high school I lived with a guy who was 8 years older than me. At first, of course, things were wonderful and we were oh so in love. Then, slow but sure the beatings started - yes, he was beating me. It didn't start out as full blown beatings, and really never got that far either now that I think about it. But he would punch me and throw me around and at one point I ended up with so many bumps and bruises and 2 black eyes - which was the worst beating I can remember. Since I was living with him, I didn't see my family all that often, but I remember after this beating I just had to go visit - I needed my mommy. Eventually I got up the gumption to leave him, but I was afraid for quite awhile that he would come after me. I actually wanted to move to California to get away from him. Thank goodness he found another girlfriend relatively quickly and got over me - whew!

So that's the background, now to try and explain the psychology behind it all.... I was with him for three years. Like I say, at first it might have been just a slap, and well, that's not so bad, you can always justify that, especially when he says he's sorry and it will never happen again. Then it progressed to the raging fits where anything and everything in his way was subject to his fists. But this only seemed to happen when he was drunk and he was alway so terribly sorry the next day, and so sweet and loving, how could I not forgive him? Then when it came to the black eyes and such, he said we would have to break up because he couldn't stand to see what he had done to me, making me feel sorry for him and wanting to help him - the poor tortured soul! And I don't say that sarcastically, that's how I really felt! He was just a poor little boy whose mother had died and his father remarried and his stepmom was a witch and I could make it all better or him.

Eventually, after much, much, much more drama - not always in the beating department - it finally sunk into my thick head that he wasn't a poor tortured soul....or maybe he was, but I couldn't save him and in my eyes he was losing the tortured soul image and taking on a loser image - which is still how I see him today. I eventually got up the nerve to leave and it was the best decision of my life, and I just wish I would have done it the first time he hit me.

I did learn, however, that the first hit is only the beginning, and if anyone does that to me again - I'll be otta there so fast their heads will spin! It did make me a stronger person and made me determined to never be financially dependent on a man, so it wasn't all for naught, but there just has to be a better way to learn that lesson.

Anyway, not that this helps you much, but at least maybe it gives some insight into what the wife is thinking/feeling. I do know that she will deny everything until she is ready to leave. It's like smokers or alcoholics - they won't quit until they hit rock bottom and know in their own minds that they need to - and can do - something about it.

Talking to her about it would be a great first step. If she totally denies everything then at least you know you tried, but it might just be the final straw in her camel's back and she will realize she needs help.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and I think Corinna said it best. Just think how guilty you would feel if you did/said nothing and something really awful happened to her or one of the kids.

[sirrahbed]

Talking to her sounds like a great first step - but if I heard anymore screaming and evidence of abuse...I would call the police. (she does not have to know who called) Like others have said - much better to lose a friendship than risk injury or even death. Batterers only get worse. Battered women seldom stand up for themselves or have the strength to change.

If you hear more screaming, call the police Kim, please!

Whatever you do - don't go over there when you hear the fighting, or try to interfere. Domestic violence calls are risky even for police. Hubby used to be a cop and says never interfere yourself with a domestic!!

[catnapper]

Debbie, I had no idea you had such a tough few years with a man! I am so glad you found the stength to leave and that you found a fabulous guy like Terry (even if he does insist on a white home )

I think I will try to get chit-chatty with her to see if we can veer towards the subject. I really like her, and am concerned for her.

[ramanth]

Let us know how it goes Kim.

I'm sorry your neighbor is going thru that.

Debbie...wow! I never would of imagined. I'm glad you were able to walk away from that situation.

Mike never hit me but he would grab my arms and shake me or push me into a wall. Our fights were not pretty. Mostly verbal abuse. Then he started getting possessive. And even after he kicked me out, I still believed that I loved him. Thankfully it didn't take long for it to sink in that that is not what real love is.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by ramanth
Debbie...wow! I never would of imagined. I'm glad you were able to walk away from that situation.

Mike never hit me but he would grab my arms and shake me or push me into a wall. Our fights were not pretty. Mostly verbal abuse. Then he started getting possessive. And even after he kicked me out, I still believed that I loved him. Thankfully it didn't take long for it to sink in that that is not what real love is.

My loser's name was Mike too! And no, I don't mean to insinuate that all Mikes are losers because I know way too many nice Mikes to think that, it's just a funny coincidence.

Now I chalk it up to being young and foolish and like you say, Kim, I soon realized that is not what real love is and I feel sorry for those who do - man or woman.

Thanks Kim & Kim, it's a part of my past that I'm not proud of, but that I can't erase. I do feel for woman in a similar situation, but I know all to well the denial and the way the woman will stick up for the man, even as she's laying in a bloody heap on the sidewalk.

[Catsnclay]

Kim, don't be surprised if she denies that anything is wrong. Battered women/men always seem to protect their spouse.

Ok, here is another story: My parents. My parents just recently got divorced.....THANK GOD!! They were in this awful marriage for almost 50 years. I was SO glad that they divorced when they did because I didn't want to give them a 50th wedding anniversary party (yes, I'm the oldest). Both my sister & I agree that they should have parted many, many years ago but they didn't. So many people were surprised when they seperated, everyone thought they had the "perfect" marriage.......and they did, on the outside. My sister & I were the only ones that saw the "real" people that they were. My father ignored and didn't "allow" my mother to do anything. My mother would nag and nag and then near the end she would throw things at him (in a desperate attempt for attention) so he would get up and in her face. Was there physical violance going on? Yes. Did we do anything to stop it? Well, yes and no. We both moved out ASAP and when it started in front of us, we left. I'm not saying either one was wrong, nor right. You get to a point in a bad relationship that ANY attention, is attention. So you learn these bad habits. She always had bruises, and excuses for them. She always said that nothing was wrong, and even up to the last moment, she thought he would call and "tell" her to come home. Thankfully that never happened, because she would have gone back to him!

My best advice to you is mind your own business. This woman will probably not tell you the truth about what is really going on. Sometimes it DOES take two!! It still doesn't make it right, but no one can learn if someone keeps running in and rescuing them.

The next time you hear them going at it, simply call the police. All calls are anomoyous so you will be safe. You are only assuming what is going on over there, don't automatically think that one party is the "bad" guy only.

I've seen this first hand, and today 2 years after their divorce both of my parents are MUCH better off and both now agree that they should have done it sooner. Too bad too, they are both in their 70's now. People stay together for the dumbest reasons!

[LKPike]

catnapper, convince her to go get help HERSELF. It does NOT matter whos beating who - its who calls the police first that gets "help". I knew a lady whos husband was abusive, attacked her with scissors one night, afterwards HE called police while she ran for the hospital. Once she got there a doctor and she called the police. When they showed up they arrested HER. Because during this fight she scratched the guy, since he called police first, they believed him, not her. It doesn't matter how nice a couple "seems". In every interview for the nightly news, the neighbors of the most recent murders always say the killer was "nice, polite, and quiet". If she cares at all for her kids and her life, she'll go to the police, while her husbands not around to beat her to them.