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Thread: My Thought's On Arthur, Also In Original Post About Arthur

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Ontario, Canada
    I know you aren't trying to make JC feel bad, and I understand how impassioned Rottie owners feel about their breed.
    Yes I love my rotti's, in fact I havn't met one yet I didn't love but that's not what this is about at all. It could have been a lab, golden retriever, doberman, poodle, pug, etc. and I would still have written everything I wrote. I love all animals and always have. This is not a rotti's about a lost life that has me and others upset, including Arthurs owners. I hope this didn't come out sounding like I'm upset about the comment, I'm not but did want to clarify it had nothing to do with the fact that Arthur was a rotti. He was a baby, with feelings like all the babies on PT.
    His Mommy is suffering I'm sure and can bet on the fact that she likely has been crying her eyes out since this happened. I feel terrible for Arthur and his family.
    Nikita Mommy & Daddy Miss You So Much.....Always Will....Look For Cappy Sweetie & Keep Each Other Company. Cappy You Stole So many hearts Sweet Boy. We All Love You & Miss You. Play Hard Sweet Babies.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    I'm reading these threads and I have to say that I'm shocked. I normally stick to the cat side, and I now know why.

    We're supposed to be supportive here. JC, Bella and their animal family have been apart of PT for almost a year...and this is the "support" we offer to them?

    I'm not so proud to be apart of PT if this is how we treat people when they are truly down.
    ...RIP, our sweet Gini...

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Riding my bike somewhere...
    Originally posted by NoahsMommy
    I normally stick to the cat side, and I now know why.
    Funny, since normally I just stick to the dog side because a large amout of the Cat PT'ers have been nothing but unsupportive when i've wanted to get a cat, like I know nothing.

    ~Kay, Athena, Ace, Kiara, Mufasa, & Alice!
    "So baby take a axe to your makeup kit
    Set ablaze the billboards and their advertisements
    Love with all your hearts and never forget
    How good it feels to be alive
    And strive for your desire"

    -rx bandits

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Waltham, MA, USA
    Noah's Mommy, The other thread that this came from is full of more supportive comments to JC.

    I still believe she did the right thing. Why? Because of two things. During both attacks arthur did to Charlie, nothing the humans did, not yelling, not scolding, not even hitting Arthur (which they normally never, ever did) not wading in between them - nothing could dissuade Arthur from the attack. And is was an attack - not a nip, not a "disciplinary growl and snap," not one bite. The second incident happened days later. During the time between attacks, they had been feeding the dogs separately, keeping them separate, etc., doing everything to try to prevent a second occurance and try to deal with the problem.

    The second thing is that the second attck occured NOT at feeding time, and Arthur had to climb a five and a half-foot wall to accomplish the attack. Arthur was still a puppy. he was just going to get bigger and stronger. Perhaps given the money for a behaviorist and time and a home with no other dogs, no chances of encountering other dogs, or even small children, always being fed with no one else in the room, etc., Arthur MIGHT never have attacked another living creature again, but that is a very big chance to take. Especially given the severity of Charley's injuries.

    I love dogs. You know that. I love big dogs. I love Rotties. I love all dogs. I wish none ever had to be put to sleep. I am sure JC and Bella will have this weighing heavily on their hearts for a long time to come, but I believe, given their situation, they did the right thing.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Miami, Florida
    I have to agree with the majority of you guys here.

    When i read the post from JC, my heart literally dropped. I think they're was PLENTY of other things you could have done, and if it all failed, then you take the step and put the dog down, because you know you've done everything you could to try and stop it.

    Rehome the dog, Take him to a Specialist, etc....

    I just think their was other approaches that could have been filled before the last decision was made.

    And, I agree with Kayann (About what NoahsMommy said).... You guys weren't exactly supportive when everyone found out Cali was an outside cat either. It's not like we're horrible people just on the "Dog side".

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Originally posted by CamCamPup33
    You guys weren't exactly supportive
    a large amout of the Cat PT'ers have been nothing but unsupportive
    OK, point taken. I guess that was unfair of me to say it was a "dog side" issue. Its not.

    I'm not used to the things said on this (or the other) thread when someone has lost a beloved animal. I guess if something happened similar with one of my cats, I'd be horrified that people where debating if I was right or wrong in my decision.
    ...RIP, our sweet Gini...

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Southern California
    I agree with Karen. It's very saddening to me to hear that any dog was PTS, no matter the reason, but I do believe that it was necessary this time. Like others mentioned, some dogs are just 'wired wrong'.

    I also agree with the ones who said that no one should be allowed to judge her until they've been in her shoes, and have had to make the decision she had to make.

    I'm very, very sorry JC and Bella. I can't imagine what you're going through.

  8. #23
    I've been reading Arthur's story and have been refraining on commenting because I wasn't really sure what to say. This whole situation really breaks my heart. I cannot imagine how JC must be feeling right now, and really, I think the way a lot of you are commenting is going to tear her heart apart. I'm not trying to condemn any of you...I know you feel strongly on this issue, BUT put yourself in JC's shoes for a moment. Just for a moment. Suppose you had to make this horrible, 'nightmare-for-a-pet-owner* decision. You are torn inside, your heart literally bleeding, and you're constantly asking yourself if you made the right decision. You come to PT for love and support, and instead, you have to hear comments like this. HOW would you feel??? If you're ALREADY so hurt over the fact that you made such a difficult and painful decision, and your 'friends' react in this manner, how would you feel? I think its just rubbing salt on the wound. The time of a pet's death is never the time to bring such discussions up. It would only make the animal's death 1000 times more painful for the owner. If you all HAD to say this, I think it was best to give JC some time to think and grieve before bringing this up. Just imagine how she's going to feel now.

    None of us know JC in person. We don't know her dogs in person. We do NOT know what she was going through at that time that caused her to make this nightmare of a decision. Who are we to judge her decision? What if we were put in her shoes and had to make this decision, only to find the entire board against us for that? What if she gave Arthur another chance, and he jumped over a 5 1/2 foot wall and killed a child? Then what would you all say? If he really was this aggressive that he would jump over a high wall to get Charlie, and that beating him with a shovel wasn't enough to stop him, he could have gotten away with something MUCH worse. The fact is, WE were NOT in JC's shoes at the moment, and we do NOT know how severe Arthur's aggression was. Her heart is already breaking over this, so I think we should just stop adding our thoughts and feelings against it, and just offer support right now. None of us like to see animals put down....none of us. We ALL love animals here. Sadly though, sometimes, and in certain cases, that is the best that can be done. EVEN if there was something else that 'could have' been done, the fact is, it is now too late. The decision was made, the deed done, and nothing can bring Arthur back no matter what we say. There's no need to rub salt on the wound when there's nothing that can be done about it now. It has been done. We don't know what situation JC was in that she had to make such a decision. Its best to offer support for the loss of her pet, whom she obviously, loved dearly. We all do the best we can for our pets, but the fact is, we are human beings. We *can* make mistakes even when trying to make the best decision. Its best to let it go. If you have to say something, say it later...but not when the wound is so fresh and open.

    JC, I'm so sorry about your loss. I know your decision was a painful one, and I can't imagine how you're feeling right now.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Northern Canada
    I'm going to chime in here as the owner of a seriously dog aggressive dog. Kayleigh is a mal-GSD mix. She hates any other female dog and anything smaller than her is prey. Keeping Kayleigh safe from herself & keeping other dogs safe is a full time job. I can never let my guard down for a second with her. Until you've watched another dog, a dog you love, try to kill another dog you love, you can't fully understand what it's like. I don't mean a simple dog fight. An attack is a whole different ball game from a regular fight. It's HORRIFYING!

    I can only support JC's decision--maybe Arthur could have been rehomed or retrained, but having spent thousands on Kayleigh--training, behaviorist, Tellington Touch, and massive vet bills with limited success, I understand why she choose to euthanize Arthur. I have spent many hours in tears over Kayleigh. Once two years ago, I spent the night sitting in the snow with her, sobbing, convinced it was the last night I'd ever have her. She had bit my husband that night. Fortunately, once he calmed down, we were able to work out a different plan for her. Our situation is different in that we don't live in a city--I have enough land that I can give Kayleigh room to play and keep my other dogs safe. I have a husband who can build the most amazing fences! There are areas around us where I can take Kayleigh and let her roam a bit without too much worry.

    In terms of rehoming, I have placed one dog--Kayleigh's sister--who had a temperment like this. She went to a trapper who lives ten months of the year in a fly-in only camp with only Summit for company! Homes like that are not going to happen very often.
    If Arthur had been taken to a shelter, even a no-kill, shelter and JC had told them the full truth, he would have been euthanized anyway. At least she had the guts to make that decision herself instead of leaving it to strangers! My husband is the administrator of our local no-kill shelter and I'd guarentee he would euthanize a dog with this kind of temperment. Aggressive dogs can't be safely adopted out. The liability risk for a shelter is huge.

    I'm not sure what the law is in JC's area, but where I live, any dog involved in a fight can be declared dangerous and euthanized by Animal Control. Doesn't matter who started it or why the dogs were fighting. Fight=dangerous dog=dead. It's why Kayleigh is rarely off our property, unless we are way back in the bush. One bite to someone else's dog and she's dead.
    If you are lucky enough to find a way of life you love, you must find the courage to live it.
    --John Irving

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Austin, Texas
    Originally posted by NoahsMommy

    I'm not used to the things said on this (or the other) thread when someone has lost a beloved animal. I guess if something happened similar with one of my cats, I'd be horrified that people where debating if I was right or wrong in my decision.
    I understand how you're feeling Kelly, but in certain situations, people need to speak their minds to possibly prevent any similar future occurances. I applaud people who say what they are feeling, even if it makes them look like the bad guy. It is a terribly sad situation. I'm sure no one would even question it in most situations, but sometimes things just need to be said.... for the animals' sake.

    Just for the record, I've seen equally horrifying and equally wonderful things on both the dog AND cat sides.
    Shiloh, Reece, Lolly, Skylar
    and fosters Snickers, Missy, Magic, Merlin, Maya

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Cactus country.. tucson, AZ!
    I will say one thing and one thing only, and then I will say nothing more. It will be pointless anyway. Unless you were the one trying to beat off your dog with a shovel and not having any success... unless you were the one who saw a dog clear a 5 ft + fence UNPROVOKED to ATTACK... unless you were the one covered in blood, trying to save one dog from another... unless you were there to see the look in his eyes, the look that said "I will NOT let go.. I plan on killing" ... unless you are the one worried about all the possibilities and/or ramifications of rehoming a potentially lethal dog... Unless this was you, then you have no idea what we've been through. SHould we have rehomed him, then waited for a call that said he had flipped and attacked a child? Should we have kept him, and waited til he cleared our wall and attacked another dog outside? His aggression was no longer limited to just Charlie and his food. I could no longer take his chewies away without him going for me. NO ONE could walk near him, regardless of whether he had a chewie or not. We talked to a behaviorist. And again. And again. And again. When we did what we did, even she agreed it was for the best. The safety of my family and others had to be a priority. I loved Arthur. and how DARE anyone imply I acted rashly. I have never had to make a harder decision. The vet told me Charlie is a VERY lucky dog. He should not have survived. SHOULD NOT HAVE SURVIVED. Had Charlie been killed, would you all have been so supportive about my keeping Arthur? Or would you have judged me about something else I did wrong? Would I get one thread about, "Oh no... I'm so sorry" and another one chastising me for any decision I made? I'm shocked and stunned at all the 2 facedness. Or maybe I'm not. How dare any of you judge me.
    "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
    -- Immanuel Kant

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Off to the races....
    I'm the first one to admit I have been flip flopping. I truely do not know how to feel. The what ifs of the situation and not being there to witness the entire situation of know the entire activites of the past several months can not allow me to.

    I am sorry that Arthur is gone, and that you were put in the position to maket that decision. And I do believe you felt you had to do, what in your heart was the right decision for your pets. On those points I have not and will not changed my opinion.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    New England
    I'm really glad that you, RottiMommy49, have brought this up. While my heart aches for the whole situation, there was one thing that really stuck out here to me:

    And it's not fair to Bella and myself having to worry about Arthur's aggression
    (This was taken from here) I'm sorry, but even tho' it doesn't seem fair to you, it's called responsibility. Maybe that's not what you meant in that quote, but it's how it came across. It just makes it that much more cruel and unnecessary. Was every other possibility thought about????

    Let me say too, I am really sorry for your loss. Life is harsh and cruel sometimes.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Wylie, Texas USA
    I personally have never been so disgusted with PT as I am right now. These people made the best decision they could in a horrific situation that NONE of you witnessed, or had to live with.

    How dare any of you question JC and Bella's actions????

    JC & Bella, you still have my support 100%. I'm so sorry that you've been treated this way. I hate that it happened, and I hate that you had to do what you had to do, but sometimes it is the best thing, as hard as that is for me to say.

    I hope I never have to face any decision like this, not only for the trauma that it will cause me, but because this community that I consider a very important part of my life will no doubt second guess me.
    Last edited by micki76; 12-05-2004 at 07:37 PM.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    I agree with you 100% Micki.

    I can't believe what I've been reading by some of you..

    I support the decision made by JC & Bella, and I personally find it horrible that you people would question someone who just had to put their dog to sleep.

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