"One nation UNDER GOD" banned?

[CamCamPup33]

Should public schools encourage students to not only "the republic" but also to affirm that it is "under God." What if you don't believe in God, or think that religion is a crutch, a fairy tale, or a tool of oppression. If you come from a family of atheists, should you be coerced by a public school to declare your belief in God?

The 9th circuit says no, and the Bush administration says yes, according to an article i read.. What do you say?

*In my opinion*
The "Pledge" should stay the same.. Congress has always said that same pledge, and so has the supreme court.

It's not like it singles out any particular God. And if you don't believe in any God, then just don't say that phrase (under God).

Even though "under God" is in the pledge, it does not harm the idea of keeping church and state seperate..

*Here is a website on it..HERE*

[2kitties]

I'm a Christian.
I feel very strongly that these words should COME OFF our money and COME OUT of our Pledge. I feel that a secular government is the only way we can remain a civilized, industrialized nation.

No matter how you look at it, the words are Unconstitiutional under the First Amendment. It may not matter to those of us who worship a God, it is simply not Constitutional in my view.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

no law respecting- this is pretty clear to me.

It is unconstitutional.
Nothing good comes of leaving it in there.
If it stays, then those people who don't believe in God are offended.
Also if it stays, then religious people need to understand the full implications of it. In order for Under God to be declared constitutional, then the terms Under God must be deemed by the court as inconsequential terms of little importance. Do religious people really want that terms declared weak? I think not.


This was not the vision of our forefathers. Let's not kid ourselves. It was added to the pledge as a knee jerk reaction to the cold war in the time of Macarthism. It need to go. Take it off the money too. And I volunteer to collect all the offensive money! "E Pluribus Unum" works fine for money and anything else we need to have a national motto printed on. Until then, I volunteer to collect all the offensive money. If you wish to give me any of your offensive money, pm me.

"God" applies religion. Specifically, a monothiestic religion. This alienates pagan and athiest Americans. It essentially says that you have to be religious in order to pledge allengiance to your flag.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by 2kitties
I feel that a secular government is the only way we can remain a civilized, industrialized nation.

Here here!!! I have no opinion on the pledge issue, but I agree whole heartedly with 2kitties on this point. I think in more ways than one we are forgetting why the first pilgrims came to this country - to get away from religious persecution. We absolutely positively MUST keep religion and politics two separate entities.

And as for Bush, I'll admit I voted for him last time, but I'm really fed up with some of the things I've been hearing about him and his "religion" lately, so it's highly unlikely that I'll be voting for him again.

Anyway, I could go on and on but I didn't mean to turn this thread into a different rant than its original intention.

[ramanth]

Debbie and 2kitties pretty much worded very well how I feel.

[Freckles]

I graduated from high school in 1952 which ended most of the pledge opportunities. When the pledge changed a couple of years later, I can only remember being surprised that "under God" was added.


In fact, I can remember the first year or two at school, at the words "allegiance to" we turned our arm, palm up towards the flag. That was stopped at the start of WWII because it looked similar to the nazi salute.

[CamCamPup33]

Originally posted by Freckles
I graduated from high school in 1952 which ended most of the pledge opportunities. When the pledge changed a couple of years later, I can only remember being surprised that "under God" was added.


In fact, I can remember the first year or two at school, at the words "allegiance to" we turned our arm, palm up towards the flag. That was stopped at the start of WWII because it looked similar to the nazi salute.

I have only known 'under god' in the pledge, so i really couldnt imagine it any other way..

[2kitties]

The legislative history of the 1954 act stated that the hope was to "acknowledge the dependence of our people and our Government upon … the Creator … [and] deny the atheistic and materialistic concept of communism." In signing the bill on June 14, 1954, Flag Day, Eisenhower delighted in the fact that from then on, "millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town … the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty." That the nation, constitutionally speaking, was in fact dedicated to the opposite proposition seemed to escape the President.
Not only that, but the band played "Onward Christian Soldiers" during the ceremony that added those words to the Pledge. So it is naive to say that the words Under God were meant to have anything but Christian connotation.

[RICHARD]

If an atheist does not believe in god, why is he in such a hurry to ban him for the rest of us?

I don't believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, or Superman-but why not leave them for the rest who do?

Separation of church and state.......It will never happen...Most of the laws in this country are based on that 'old tyme religion'....

Thou shalt not kill, commit adultery, steal, car bomb, lie.......

I think our forefathers weren't trying to keep religion OUT of politics.....they were trying keep politics embracing religion, any religion you want and believe in!

They ran away from England BECAUSE of religious persecution......THEY HAD TO BELIEVE IN WHAT THE government deemed to be the 'religion du jour'..
the pilgrims came to North America for RELIGIOUS FREEDOM....

the word GOD is a nebulous pronoun it's there so no one will feel slighted, it's not Yaweh, Krishna, Jesus Christ, Muhammad.....

It's just GOD and it's a concept that has 300 million different definitions.

In god we trust-all others pay cold hard cash.

[CamCamPup33]

Originally posted by RICHARD
If an atheist does not believe in god, why is he in such a hurry to ban him for the rest of us?

I don't believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, or Superman-but why not leave them for the rest who do?

Agreed.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by CamCamPup33
Agreed.

I do draw the line at the Tooth Fairy....

[CamCamPup33]

Originally posted by RICHARD
I do draw the line at the Tooth Fairy....

LOL!

[2kitties]

Originally posted by RICHARD
If an atheist does not believe in god, why is he in such a hurry to ban him for the rest of us?

Nobody is Banning God, Richard. But a relationship with God or Gods or no God or Gods is personal, not political. And I think it's about high time the Tooth Fairy got some respect in this world, dangit!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by 2kitties
Nobody is Banning God, Richard. But a relationship with God or Gods or no God or Gods is personal, not political.

You are correct....
It is truly a personal, not a political pursuit,
I just wanted to chime in about how the country came about due to religion and how the country guarantees our freedom to pursue which ever one
we see fit.

It's just alot of work to be bothered by 7 letters..

But,
Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy??

[CamCamPup33]

Originally posted by RICHARD
You are correct....
It is truly a personal, not a political pursuit,
I just wanted to chime in about how the country came about due to religion and how the country guarantees our freedom to pursue which ever one
we see fit.

It's just alot of work to be bothered by 7 letters..

But,
Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy??

*Ahem*

I believe it's 8.. LOL!

[2kitties]

OF course. How else did the dollar always get under my pillow?