Reaction to the food???

**wolfsoul** · 05-23-2003, 07:59 PM

I went out and bought the rats new food and chews yesterday --

Well, Frisco seems to be having something wierd wrong with him

He's very bloated, and he won't stop scratching himself!

Icarus is perfectly fine, but I know that Frisco is different as he is also allergic to yesterdays news and Icarus isn't.

I checked the ingredients to all the things, and I didn't see anything odd -- The only things of them that I haven't bought before are the dentabones and the dog buiscuits...

I know that YLL has tried dentabones, and says her rats like them, has anyone else tried them?

The dog busicuits are Pedigree breath buster ( I know the rats don't have bad breath, lol, but it was a full bag on sale and it I've heard that pedigree is a good brand). Has anyone tried pedigree treats?

Is there any way I can make him feel better so he won't scratch? I've checked for parasites, should I give him a bath anyways? Or would that make his skin too dry and itch even more?

I wonder why Icarus always gets away without anything and Frisco is the one that has troubles

**shellonabeach** · 05-23-2003, 08:14 PM

I can't help with your questions but do know from when buying things for the hamsters certain ingredients to be avoided (especially in dog biscuits)..

Garlic
BHT and BHA - which have been linked to causing cancer in rats and mice.

I hope that Frisco is feeling better soon.

**wolfsoul** · 05-23-2003, 08:26 PM

Thanks, but dog buiscuits are recommended for rats as long as they have low protien and aren't carrying any harmful substances

These are only 9% protien, and that's fairly good. I also can't seem to find anything wrong in the igredients .Not like mine need them for their teeth, lol, but it's always good for that.

**AngelZoo** · 05-23-2003, 09:39 PM

Here here!

Garlic is posionus to cats (not sure about any other animals).

And I will not feed or buy products that have BHT or BHA in them very often, if at all. I try to avoid them.
It's ok as an occassional treat, but to feed it every day in their meal can creat problems, and yes it can cause cancer.

**wolfsoul** · 05-23-2003, 10:21 PM

I never said there was garlic in them?

If anything, the food should be cutting back on anything that can cause odour --- which is why it does carry eucalyptus oil and parsely..

**wolfsoul** · 05-23-2003, 10:23 PM

What are bHT and BHA? There is nothing about them on the bag, nor does it have anything that might represent those initials

**AngelZoo** · 05-24-2003, 03:19 PM

wolfsoul: I was just kind of adding on to another comment that someone else already made.

Here is a quick run down of BHT & BHA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What are BHA and BHT?

Butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA) and the related compound butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT) are phenolic compounds that are often added to foods to preserve fats.

BHA Characteristics:

BHA is a mixture of the isomers 3-tert-butyl-4-hydroxyanisole and 2-tert-butyl-4-hydroxyanisole. Also known as BOA, tert-butyl-4-hydroxyanisole, (1,1-dimethylethyl)-4-methoxyphenol, tert-butyl-4-methoxyphenol, antioxyne B, and under various trade names
Molecular formula C11H16O2
White or yellowish waxy solid
Faint characteristic aromatic odor

BHT Characteristics:

Also known as 3,5-di-tert-butyl-4-hydroxytoluene; methyl-di-tert-butylphenol; 2,6-di-tert-butyl-para-cresol
Molecular formula C15H24O
White powder

How do they preserve food?

BHA and BHT are antioxidants. Oxygen reacts preferentially with BHA or BHT rather than oxidizing fats or oils, thereby protecting them from spoilage. In addition to being oxidizable, BHA and BHT are fat-soluble. Both molecules are incompatible with ferric salts. In addition to preserving foods, BHA and BHT are also used to preserve fats and oils in cosmetics and pharmaceuticals.

What foods contain BHA and BHT?

BHA is generally used to keep fats from becoming rancid. It is also used as a yeast de-foaming agent. BHA is found in butter, meats, cereals, chewing gum, baked goods, snack foods, dehydrated potatoes, and beer. It is also found in animal feed, food packaging, cosmetics, rubber products, and petroleum products.

BHT also prevents oxidative rancidity of fats. It is used to preserve food odor, color, and flavor. Many packaging materials incorporate BHT. It is also added directly to shortening, cereals, and other foods containing fats and oils.

Are BHA and BHT safe?

Both BHA and BHT have undergone the additive application and review process required by the US Food and Drug Administration. However, the same chemical properties which make BHA and BHT excellent preservatives may also be implicated in health effects. The oxidative characteristics and/or metabolites of BHA and BHT may contribute to carcinogenicity or tumorigenicity; however the same reactions may combat oxidative stress. There is evidence that certain persons may have difficulty metabolizing BHA and BHT, resulting in health and behavior changes. BHA and BHT may have antiviral and antimicrobial activities. Research is underway concerning the use of BHT in the treatment of herpes simplex and AIDS.

**wolfsoul** · 05-24-2003, 03:25 PM

Hmmm...that is in the buiscuits...

But does anyone know how much proof or research has been done to base a fact that it is bad for rats/mice?

Icarus doesn't seem to have anything wrong with him...Just Frisco...He's not itching anymore, I gave him a good wipe-down with baby wipes, got all the blood off of him (he scratched himself to that point

), and the only thing that is weird now is that he's bloated...

**wolfsoul** · 05-24-2003, 05:07 PM

I read up on it, I'm calling the pet shop, complaining, and I better get my money back or I swear to God...

**wolfsoul** · 05-24-2003, 05:09 PM

I read that it can cause allergic reactions on the skin and rashes. So far Icarus is okay, I know for a fact that he has a better immunity than Frisco, so I think he'll be fine.

**AngelZoo** · 05-24-2003, 06:10 PM

wolfsoul: I'm glad you took it upon yourself to read up on it, unfortunatly not many people do.

And yes, I personally have even read many scientific trials on these ingredients and their effects on various animals including cats and dogs. It can even effect pregnant or nursing animals.

I personally try to avoid it period (though it's very hard to escape when feeding treats) due to this I feed very few commercial treats and mostly things like raw or cooked meat instead. The real danger, is feeding them it in a FOOD, like Science Diet has it in some of their foods, if you feed that to an animal every day for years they have a much higher risks of getting bad effects to it.

So basically don't feed any product that has it over a prolonged period of time.
Luckily now adays, over half of dog and cat food does NOT contain BHA or BHT.

**shellonabeach** · 05-24-2003, 06:58 PM

wolfsoul

I was not saying that what you bought contained garlic or BHT/BHA I was just trying to point out that when buying dog biscuits for rodents these are ingredients to avoid.

I don't think they would cause the problems you saw in Frisco (or perhaps you know better as you researched it!!!)

I hope he;s better.

**wolfsoul** · 05-24-2003, 08:12 PM

I brought the buiscuts back, and I got my money back

Frisco smells funny cuz I'm wiping his body down with wet baby wipes every five seconds lol. They help with the itching and get rid of the dried blood..

Thanks for the info