overpopulation

[jessica17]

First of all I like to ask you all to take no offense of what I will say, I don´t mean to start a fight or be rude to anyone, but just as everyone else I have a right to express my feelings, and in this case I really feel that I have to. I looked at the topic "How much was your dog" and there was a few things that bothered me very much.
Pam you said (this is not meant in a bad way, I just want to explain something) that you whised that all the puppymills would be shut down, and I very much agree with that. But you said that until that happens the dogs at the puppymills need homes as well, and "rescue". But the puppymills and breeders will never shut down/go out of business as long as people keep buying from them. If people stop they would be forced to shut down for good, and imagine how many lifes that will save. I don´t think you meant anything wrong, I understand that you want to save those puppies as well, and I think you are a nice person, but nomatter how hard it is to not rescue the puppymill puppies and buy the cute puppies from breeders, that is the best thing to do for all the dogs. I do can understand that families with small children need to be sure that the dog is safe, but a dog bought from a breeder then one rescued from a shelter can be just as dangerous. And there is also special tests for dogs that will tell if they are dangerous or not. I also understand that many families might need a small dog, but shelters have so many of them too. If they don´t have it right now, they will in a while. I don´t really think that it is more worth for people to meet the puppies parents then to save a life. Atleast I hope not, becuase if everyone thought like that, who would care for the dogs at shelters. most of them are just as healthy (after being tested and treated for what they might have when they were rescued) and will live for just as long, often longer, and puppymill puppies are often very sick and might not live for long.
I do understand that there is special reasons for families and persons to buy from a breeder, and I respect many of those reasons, but please think about what I wrote. If you can save a life, please do. There is no reason to buy a dog becuase you "might" save it from going to the shelter, save one that is in the shelter instead and you will not help the breeder stay in business. I don´t think that all breeders are bad, i do belive we need them to keep breeds alive, but not right now, purebreed dogs are being killed in shelters every day, there is already to many dogs, please don´t produce even more. For every dog a breeder sell, there is one that dies in a shelter. Many breeders say in defense that they never fore anyone to buy from them. They don´t, but if they didn´t have cute puppies to offer they might would go and take a look at the shelter. And breeding just becuase maybe one person near you might want a purebreed of just that breed, is in my eyes not a good reason to bring so many puppies into the world. Maybe everyone will be sold, but i´m sure that not everyone of them that bought the puppies just had to have a puppy of just that breed, and could not find one in any shelter. Most breeds are in shelters, and sure they might not be the prettiest dogs, or youngest, but they need a home, and it is becuase so many people HAVE to have a purebreed puppy that there is so many homeless dogs in this country. I do not think it is worth it, in a time like this. Why can´t we all just open our hearts a little more and take away some of out "must have" to save a life. Then maybe we can end the big over population problem, and after that I can understand that people will breed, becuase then the shelters would not be so overfilles with unloved dogs that millions of them need to be killed every year becuase nobody want them.
I understand that not everyone agrees with me on everything, and I respect that and hope you will all respect my belives, and try to understand why I wanted to write this. Not to hurt or offense anyone, not even breeders, just to make people change to the better.



jessica

[wolfsoul]

And there is also special tests for dogs that will tell if they are dangerous or not.

There is no guarenteed "test" that will enable to tell what dog is dangerous and which dog isn't.

Most of what you said was confusing to me, and I didn't understand

It sounds as if you think everyone here is after a purebred dog??? Whenever I hear someone ask what breed they should get, every response comes out "mutt." and whenever someone asks where they should get one, everyone here says "shelter."

But the puppymills and breeders will never shut down/go out of business as long as people keep buying from them.

This also confused me??? People don't buy from puppymills, they buy from petshops that have puppymill puppies. Most don't understand where these pups come from, and you cant exactly blame uneducated people. Also, why would anyone want breeders to go out of business? I mean reputable ones of course. I understand the population problem, but good breeders are a good place to get healthy well-lined dogs

[jessica17]

I don´t think that everyone here wants a purebreed dog, I was just explaining what I feelt was wrong with what some people here said, and even though many people does adopt, I belive more should, that was why I wrote what I did. And I´m sorry if what i was talking about was confusing to you, but I don´t think i could have made it any clearer. The special tests I was talking about was temperament testing. No test is 100 procent sure, but if it is done right or by someone that works with it, you should be able to tell if the dog is agressiv or dangerous. A dog that you will buy from a breeder can be dangerous as well, you can´t always be sure how that dog was treated by the breeder. And if a rescued dog has been used in dog fighting or similar you should be able to tell by the test. Becuase that kind of dog has been learned to be very aggresiv. And if you are concerned about the safety issue maybe you shouldn´t get a large dog that has a reputation to be aggresiv. You can always adopt a small one from the shelter. For more information about temperament evaluation you can find it here: www.pbrc.net



jessica

[jessica17]

Sure you can´t blame people that don´t know what they are doing when they are buying a puppy from a pet store, but that is why I was writing this in the first place, to educate people that don´t know. Not to start a fight. These dogs come from puppymills, and are being treated VERY bad, and their parents are stuck there for life.
Why I said that I wanted breeders to go out of business, was becuase it is simply to many dogs on this earth right now. I explained it all before, I think it is wrong to buy when dogs have to die becuase they don´t happend to be born as a purebreed well-lined dog.




jessica

[wolfsoul]

I think it is wrong to buy when dogs have to die becuase they don´t happend to be born as a purebreed well-lined dog.

Dogs don't die because they aren't purebred, it's because no one wants them for possibly that reason and many others. Which is why I also feel that people should stop breeding, but I don't feel that good breeders should. If good breeders do, than puppy mills and backyard breeders will keep producing unhealthy dogs, and there will only be unhealthy dogs left after many years. I feel that only healthy animals should be bred, and that people who want to breed should have a liscence, but there's nothing we can do because there aren't enough people educated on these issues.

[jessica17]

I think you have a very good point there, but the fact is that it is too many homeless animals right now, and we have to do something. Many of animals at shelters are purebreed and "good" dogs in every way, but still they get killed. If people could adopt instead of buying now, we could end this huge problem, and of course good breeders is needed, but there is too many of them right now, I agree with what you said that the good breeders should have a liscens. I didn´t mean that we should stop all breeding, just that people should adopt instead of buying, and the country focus on spay/neutering and keep some good breeders that has a liscens, so that well lined and pure breed dogs survive. Then there wouldn´t have to be any more homeless animals. Of course people need to buy from the breeders to keep them in business (the good one that has liscense) but as it is right now, too many buy from them, and not many enough adopt. And there is too many breeders aswell, even too many good breeders. You should not be able to breed unless you have a liscense. I´m sorry if I maked myself unclear before, I didn´t mean that all breeding should be forbidden, just that some of the really good ones will stay and have a liscens and the bad ones will go out of business (including the puppymills) and that more people will adopt, and we really don´t need this many breeders, we can see that by looking in all the shelters. Even if many breeders are good, we have to many and then they will end up doing harm instead of good.
We should be able to keep the breeding on a good level, so that every dog can have a home, even those in shelters, even though the breeding of well lined and purebreeds goes on.




jessica

[slick]

Jessica17: I'm only here because I want to welcome you to Pet Talk. Myself, I don't get involved in threads like this because it can be very contraversal and lead to hurt feelings, so I stay away. I just wanted to welcome you with open arms. Do you have pets?? If so, I'd like to see some pictures.

[jessica17]

To Slick: Thank you very much.
Yes, I realise that this can lead to hurt feelings, but I tried to explain that I didn´t mean to hurt anyone, so I hope I don´t, and also I think the dogs in the shelters will hurt even more if nobody speaks up for them, that is why I´m doing this. But I understand that you choose to stay out of it, and I thank you very much for your welcome. This maybe wasen´t the best way for me to introduce myself on this board..
I might seem like a person that likes to start a fight, but really I don´t. I am here becuase I love animals and I want to help them in every way I can.
I hope that everyone understand that.
Your welcome means alot to me, thank you very much.
I do have a dog, A Bichon frise. I choosed this breed becuase I have very allergic friends and this breed is perfect for them.
And I love him so much, he is the most adorable little dog, and I wouldn´t trade him for anything.
Once again, thank you very much for your welcome.




Jessica

[KYS]

Jessica,
I also want to welcome you to Pet Talk.

I understand what you are saying, but I do not
agree with you 100%.
(now I will probably be slammed for what I am
about to say) THIS is long, since I am opinionated person.


First before I begin, reputable breeders are NOT
the problem why so many dogs are in shelters today.
This has already been proven by studies. Good
breeders are a very small percentage of the puppies
being born compared to the damage of BYB.

In "my" opinion a BYB is anybody who does not spay nor neuter their dog and allows it to get pregnant or pregnate anothers
whether by accident, or on purpose to breed.
(that also includes the pure bred breeder, who does not
put any considerations into HEALTH and does not
care about the betterment to improve the pure breed for
the future, and also includes the breeders who
breed litter after litter.)

Puppy mills are another big problem.

I am not the problem why so many dogs are in shelters today, and it is not my job to clean up the mess that others leave.
My last 2 "past" dogs were from a kill shelter and from a rescue.
I donate $$ to rescues yearly for the past 10 years and will
continue to do so, I have also donated items such as
crates and water bowls etc.
But If I choose to buy a dog from a "reputable breeder, I,
nor is that reputable breeder the cause of why so many animals
are in shelters today.

I think for those who volunteer at shelters,
they have a wonderful BIG heart, and I also feel it's
wonderful to resuce a dog from a kill shelter.

How many people have not taken the times
to search a breed or find their dog no longer fits into their life style and they drop the poor
dog off at the pound? (that's another problem)

I will never feel guilty for owning a dog from a "good" breeder.
Now that I know better, I will never buy
a dog from a Pet Shop, nor a BYB.
My sister will never own anything but a dog from a Kill shelter.
We respect each-other's choices and my next dog might
be from an Akita rescue.

Sorry to ramble, but if you want to stop the overflow of
dogs going to kill shelters, than people need to be educated and SPAY/NEUTER their pets and not buy those
cute pups in Pet shops to help close down Puppy Mills.

JMHO

[doglovrforevr]

Originally posted by KYS
Jessica,
I also want to welcome you to Pet Talk.

I understand what you are saying, but I do not
agree with you 100%.
(now I will probably be slammed for what I am
about to say) THIS is long, since I am opinionated person.


First before I begin, reputable breeders are NOT
the problem why so many dogs are in shelters today.
This has already been proven by studies. Good
breeders are a very small percentage of the puppies
being born compared to the damage of BYB.

In "my" opinion a BYB is anybody who does not spay nor neuter their dog and allows it to get pregnant or pregnate anothers
whether by accident, or on purpose to breed.
(that also includes the pure bred breeder, who does not
put any considerations into HEALTH and does not
care about the betterment to improve the pur breed for
the future, and also includes the breeders who
breed litter after litter.)

Puppy mills are another big problem.

I am not the problem why so many dogs are in shelters today, and it is not my job to clean up
the mess that others leave.
My last 2 "past" dogs were from a kill shelter and from a rescue.
I donate $$ to rescues yearly for the past 10 years and will
continue to do so, I have also donated items such as
crates and water bowls etc.
But If I choose to buy a dog
from a "reputable breeder, I, nor is that reputable
breeder the cause of why so many animals
are in shelters today.

I think for those who volunteer at shelters,
they have a wonderful BIG heart, and I also feel it's
wonderful to resuce a dog from a kill shelter.

How many people have not taken the times
to search a breed or find their dog no longer fits into their life style and they drop the poor
dog off at the pound? (that's another problem)

I will never feel guilty for owning a dog from a "good" breeder.
Now that I know better, I will never buy
a dog from a Pet Shop, nor a BYB.
My sister will never own anything but a dog from a Kill shelter.
We respect each-other's choices and my next dog might
be from an Akita rescue.

Sorry to ramble, but if you want to stop the overflow of
dogs going to kill shelters, than people need to be educated and SPAY/NEUTER their pets and not buy those
cute pups in Pet shops to help close down Puppy Mills.

JMHO

i PRETTY MUCH AGREE WITH YOU 100 PERCENT

[jessica17]

First, thank you for your welcome.

I did wrote that I think we need to raise awarness of spay/neuter to be able to resolve this problem, and I do know that puppymills and backyard breeders are the ones that make the most dogs homeless and put into shelters, and all those people should run out of business. But don´t you think that if all puppymills were shut down, and backyard breeders were stopped, there would still be too many dogs? To many people breed for the money, and we should only have a breeding level that will make sure that no dog have to be put to sleep in a shelter. I think that too many people choose to buy instead of adopting and even if many breeders are good, too many of them do it for the money, and I belive there is too many breeders today, and only the ones that are needed should stay in business and get a liscense.




jessica

[KYS]

posted by jessica17 First, thank you for your welcome.
But don´t you think that if all puppymills were shut down, and backyard breeders were stopped, there would still be too many dogs? To many people breed for the money, and we should only have a breeding level that will make sure that no dog have to be put to sleep in a shelter. I think that too many people choose to buy instead of adopting and even if many breeders are good, too many of them do it for the money, and I belive there is too many breeders today, and only the ones that are needed should stay in business and get a liscense. >>>>>>

(now this is just my opinion)

To tell you the truth I really do not think their
are that many "reputable" breeders out their.

To me their is a difference between a breeder
who breeds for the almighty $$$ and the breeder who
truely cares about the breed for the future.


Examples:

breeder #1: ownes 3 dogs.
2 females and 1 male.
Never does any health checks, does not show
in confirmation and their females
are bred every year.
(breeder does not lisence their dogs period,
nor show their dog in conformation
nor does breeder have a business license to breed)
(breeder #1 makes $$$)

Breeder #2:

Ownes a 15 dog kennel.
Shows their dogs in confirmation and
all dogs being bred have CH.
(no health checks and dog receive basic care)
(breeder #1 makes $$$ and can afford a business
lisence and also license their dogs)

Breeder #3

Owes 4 dogs. (2 breeding females and 2 males)
Shows dogs in conformations and have CH.
Dogs used for breeding have been
tested yearly for cerfs and have
tested good or excellent for OFA and all other
health checks for that breed. Dog meet
the breed standard and have healthy lines.

Dogs are well cared for and no expenses
spared.
Breeder breeds 1 litter a year or less.
Each female has one litter every other year and will
only be bread 2 or maybe 3 times than spayed.
(All pet puppies are sold on a spay/neutered contract except
for that one or two pups that might be sold
as show prospect)
Breeder is lucky to break even after expenses.

Breeder #4
Ownes over 30 dogs, no health checks and
has a business lisence, and sells to Pet Shops.
(dogs are bred back to back and not well fed
or cared for)Makes $$$$$


Breeder #1 one breaks the law because they
never licence their dogs with the animal control
and also do not apply for a business lisence.
Breeder # 1 gets away with not licensing his dog
because their is not enough man power for
the proper authorities to keep track of all the law breakers.

Breeder # 2 and #4 can afford the business lisence.

Breeder # 3 whom I consider the better breeder,
stops breeding dogs because of the extra expense
of business license fees etc. per litter.

What ever is done, it has to be well thought out,
Or the Reputable breeder will get phased out, and we
are only left with the $$$ making breeders such
as puppy mills and the BYB who will be breaking the law.

I realize this might not be the best example.

I think it would be nice if breeders would stop breeding
all dogs for 1 year. But you will still have the BYB
who break the law breeding those dogs because
they are not spayed and neutered.

But more does need to be done I agree.

[Cisco's Mom]

Don't Litter Spay&Neuter!!

For every 1 person born 15 puppies and 45 kittens are born!

Nationally there are millions of dogs and cats euthanized a year!

Adoption is not a solution. THERE ARE JUST TOO MANY!

Don't Litter Spay&Neuter!!