How old is too old

[Marigold2]

As many of you know I work in a Dr's office. Most of our patients are elderly. Some at 100, 88, 94,78 are in excellent health. Some at 80 are on 30 different meds a day, senile, blind, depressed without close family stuck in nursing homes.
This week two patients came in that really made me think about the value of life. Brought in by their children themselves in their 60's these patients were senile, blind, in pain, unable to take care of themselves, go to the bathroom alone etc.
They looked miserable and confused. In many with Alzheimers one needs to only look into the eyes, there is no one home. They do not recognize themselves or their children, they are angry and violent in some cases, or just docial and child like in others.
Medicine can now keep these people alive for years. Pills to control, blood pressure, diabetes, cholesterol the list goes on and on. Years ago these people would have had a heart attack and died a more natural death. Now they are the living dead. Alive but not living, day in and day out in pain and confusion. Never getting better. The drain on the family to take care of them is often overwelming. Babyboomers in their 60's having to diaper mom and dad, not able to enjoy their own retirement or build their own nest egg.
Then there is the cost on the health care system as a whole. Nursing homes, hospitals keeping them breathing for what purpose. They can't see, think, hear they are but living shells.
I know I never want to live like this. If I get to that point please give me some pills or an IV and let my pass peacefully. Let my children remember a mom who didn't pee in her pants, who know who they were and who laughed at the silliest things. I do not want to be a burden to my family or to society. The money can be used to help an animal shelter instead of keeping me alive on a feeding tube.
Would anyone be willing to sign such a form?

[cassiesmom]

I've already made this clear to my family. If it ever gets to that point, no heroics please. In my last job we used to joke about getting a tattoo that said "no code".

conversely ... a family friend was diagnosed with malignant brain cancer around Labor Day ... his oncologist recommended chemo and radiation, even though he's 80, because he is a very healthy 80. Sadly, a repeat MRI showed that the chemo and radiation have basically done nothing. Other 80-year-olds might have been offered hospice, but he was offered a second-line chemo drug, again, because his health is so good. So I guess it's about more than just the number.

[kokopup]

This is a very touchy subject in the US. There are no papers you an sign that will allow your doctor to end it all. Right now my sister is confronted with taking care of my step-mother who has Alzheimers and has become very angry and hostile in the last month. Her health is good but her mind is just gone. It has been months since she has known anyone.

I have signed a living will that stipulates not to take extraordinary means to keep me alive. I wish that there was a way for me to sign an order that would allow they to terminate my life if I ever get to that state.

My father went in a flash and i pray that I go the same way. I do not want my family pulled down prolonging my death.

[pomtzu]

I have a living will which spells out my wishes. I opted for the "do not resuscitate" clause, and no heroics are to be used to keep me alive should I lapse into a vegetative state. There is no way I want to be kept alive, simply because modern medicine has the ability to do this. When I can no longer function on my own, then it's time for me to move on. I want my family to remember me as a reasonably active and lucid person, and not be left with memories of an old lady hooked up to machines, and unaware of her surroundings. That's not living - it's only existing.

[Freedom]

I can't answer this, as I have been pondering such things myself.

My Dad has Alzheimer's. Every day, I lose a bit more of him. He still knows who I am, but he is so confused, can't follow a conversation, read a newspaper, follow a TV show.

I wonder sometimes why I am giving him the Aricept and Namenda pills. They neither cure nor stop the progress of this horrid disease.

I can understand the insulin, he has been on that for almost 10 years now and it controls his diabetes so he can do things, be himself. I can also understand most of the other meds he is on.

But the ones for the Alzheimer's, I just don't know. The very fact that I think this way gets me upset and I cry. What kind of daughter does this make me? It is a very touchy issue here.

[smokey the elder]

I'm in the same boat with my stepmom. She's going to be 80, but started showing severe dementia about 3 years ago (it was very rapid). She is also on Aricept and Namenda and she might as well be on sugar pills. I know the pharma industry is trying to come up with better meds, but until we get to the bottom of what causes Alzheimer's and other dementias it's a losing battle.

Human euthanasia is an incredibly thorny ethical issue, and also sort of a catch-22. An individual could, say, have a euthanasia order (were it legal, of course) but the family could put the kibosh on it, potentially. Same with DNRs, living wills, etc. There should never be some fixed age, anyway; it is a personal and family decision.

[pomtzu]

I can't answer this, as I have been pondering such things myself.

My Dad has Alzheimer's. Every day, I lose a bit more of him. He still knows who I am, but he is so confused, can't follow a conversation, read a newspaper, follow a TV show.

I wonder sometimes why I am giving him the Aricept and Namenda pills. They neither cure nor stop the progress of this horrid disease.

I can understand the insulin, he has been on that for almost 10 years now and it controls his diabetes so he can do things, be himself. I can also understand most of the other meds he is on.

But the ones for the Alzheimer's, I just don't know. The very fact that I think this way gets me upset and I cry. What kind of daughter does this make me? It is a very touchy issue here.

First of all Sandie, let me say that I think you're a saint for what you're doing for Dad. Many people just couldn't handle it, and I don't really know if I could or not. Fortunately, Alzheimer's is something that has never hit home in my family.

My sister in law encountered a care giving situation with my brother. He suffered a massive stroke, and then cancer when he was only 59. He was left totally dependent on others for his care. He didn't want to live this way, and even begged his wife to help him end his suffering - which of course she didn't. He slipped further away every day, but his wife cared for him at home and never put him in a nursing home. She slept on the floor on a mattress next to his hospital bed so that she could hear if he was in distress during the night. She tube fed him, changed his diapers, bathed him, turned him every couple of hours, and all this done on her own with the occasional help of a visiting nurse. He lived like this for 5 years, and his last 18 months, he was comatose, and he mercifully passed on after he contracted pneumonia.

He never wanted to exist this way as he had always been a healthy and active and productive person. When is enough, enough? I wish there was an answer...........

[Medusa]

I wonder sometimes why I am giving him the Aricept and Namenda pills. They neither cure nor stop the progress of this horrid disease.

I can understand the insulin, he has been on that for almost 10 years now and it controls his diabetes so he can do things, be himself. I can also understand most of the other meds he is on.

But the ones for the Alzheimer's, I just don't know. The very fact that I think this way gets me upset and I cry. What kind of daughter does this make me?

It makes you human, Sandie, and a very good daughter, too; one that is probably exhausted. It isn't easy to take care of an elderly parent but especially one w/Alzheimers. Your questions are painful to ask yourself but oh so natural and understandable.

[pomtzu]

I have a living will which spells out my wishes. I opted for the "do not resuscitate" clause, and no heroics are to be used to keep me alive should I lapse into a vegetative state. There is no way I want to be kept alive, simply because modern medicine has the ability to do this. When I can no longer function on my own, then it's time for me to move on. I want my family to remember me as a reasonably active and lucid person, and not be left with memories of an old lady hooked up to machines, and unaware of her surroundings. That's not living - it's only existing.

As I posted earlier in this thread...........
I carry a copy in my wallet, and my son has a copy here at home.

[anna_66]

Would anyone be willing to sign such a form?

I would, but of course if I were unable to make the decision my husband would do that for me. We have no children so the decision would be his alone and I trust him to do what he feels is the right thing.

We are going through the alzheimer's disease with my husbands mom right now. It is so sad to see her slipping away.
I've told Mark many times if I ever get like that I hope he puts me in a nursing home. I wouldn't know the difference and I wouldn't want him to waste what's left of his life trying to take care of me.

[Laura's Babies]

At 80 when Mama was discovered to have cancer, she already had dementia but the one things she was constant and firm about was, she didn't want surgery or treatment for her cancer. She clearly said she had a great life, enjoyed every minute of it but she was fine with "going" on and was ready. I respected that no matter how much the doctors pressed me to have her declared incompetent and get her that surgery. I have told my kids I hope they will respect MY wishes when my time comes like I did for Mama.

They said Mama had only a year without the surgery and it would be a long and painful death for her but I am here to tell you, they were wrong. She had GOOD quality of life up to the day she died and was even up and out of bed the day she died. If she'd had that surgery, she would never have gotten out of bed again. She did it HER WAY and to me that was the right way. She was at peace with her pending death, not afraid of it at all. I have said many times, while she was dying was some of the best times we ever had together.

My biggest fear all my life was being unable to care for myself, being completely helpless and a burden on my family. I hope when my time comes, I can do it with the peace and grace that my Mom did.

[emily_the_spoiled]

Having worked in a hospital before I have seen the lengths to which the medical establishment will go to keep someone alive (particularly if their children demand it). I have always been very clear that I do NOT want that to happen to me. The quality of life is bad and generally people are in more pain and discomfort than if they had not received treatment.

I believe in DNR order and living wills. I just wish that everyone else did