Politics and religion.

[Bonny]

I have been chuckling all day at the idea of schools being expected to teach the history of all the other countries in the world.

Let's see - there are slightly less than 200 countries in the world. Each with its own history.

Conservatively - if we devote 2 weeks to a month - oh...let's average it at three weeks - to a country. That is slightly less that 600 weeks or...about 11 and one half years.

So...in the U.S. school is 12 years (not counting college or university...or pre-school..) that leaves six months over the course of 12 years to cover reading, writing, arithmetic and everything else!

Assuming a 12 month school year. Which is not reality. Reality is more like 9 months a year.

It might help the job market - as a basic education would take a long, long time and keep people out of the job market...but is it really worth it?

Expecting Australia, the U.S., Canada, Latvia, Japan, Sweden, Zambia, Brazil or any other country to teach much beyond local, country, and global is...well...silly?

It would of been great to spend more time learning about the rest of the world & they touched a little on everything in World History. I guess it was suppose to light a spark so we would go out on our own to the nearest library & do our own digging.
I was saddened because we just touched just a little on the American Indian culture & then as an adult I learned why.

[phesina]

And did you do Australian History ???

Thanks for the description of your studies, Wom. Very well-rounded! I also admire you for your interests in history and other subjects that you've explored on your own. (But did you ever learn to speak French?)

What with the agricultural concentration in your studies, do you do or have you done agricultural work?.. and/or what kind(s) of work?

Now.. in reply to your question above:

Let's see.. back when I was going to school growing up (1950s-early 60s), we studied American History (starting from Columbus's arrival, and in which we learned that Paul Revere made his famous ride in order to warn the colonists that the British were coming), and World History, which was mainly British and some other European history and touched briefly on other parts of the world.

As I recall, World History started all the way back with Mesopotamia and the Fertile Crescent between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers (now mostly in modern-day Iraq! ).. then the ancient Egyptians.. ancient Greeks and Romans.. the birth of Christ and the spread of Christianity, Crusades (presented as definite Good Guys vs. Bad Guys conflicts) and all.. then the Brits and onward..

Australia?... let me think...: One day someone (Captain Cook?) "discovered" it.. it became part of the British Empire... then the British Commonwealth.. and now it is an independent country. Does that cover it pretty well?

My more recent sources of information on Australia: Those two fine films "The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" and "Welcome to Woop Woop" (they're documentaries, right?).

And I recently discovered the mystery novels (the kind of non-intellectual trash I mostly read in my free time ) of Garry Disher, following the activities of a team of police officers on the Mornington Peninsula in Victoria. I'm enjoying these very much and am on the library's waiting list for the one I haven't read yet.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Australia?... let me think...: One day someone (Captain Cook?) "discovered" it.. it became part of the British Empire... then the British Commonwealth.. and now it is an independent country. Does that cover it pretty well?

What I remember learning about Australia is that it was used by the British as a place to send the "unwanted" of society - criminals and paupers.

And I believe (thanks to a wonderfully clear video ChrisH posted here) that Australia is still a part of the Commonwealth.

[RICHARD]

Didn't one of the prezidential hopefuls say that there were 57 states in the union?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

I guess we can elect people who are weak in the olde historie department.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I guess we can elect people who are weak in the olde historie department.

Indeed...as well as weak in English language, geography...and oh so many other things...

Bloopers

or...Can't get fooled again... or...

So many to choose from!!

[RICHARD]

Ugh,

What am I doing?
-----------------

What was the deal with Bill Clinton and the definition of "is"?????

[Edwina's Secretary]

Ugh,

What am I doing?
-----------------

What was the deal with Bill Clinton and the definition of "is"?????

Just keep on paddling...

[mrspunkysmom]

ETA: If I wanted to know more about Australia's history I would rather learn about it, and how to spell its name properly, on my own then from one of our own public school teachers.

Well, blue, I can't speak about your school experience, but I can speak from mine. I learned some wrong information, but i imagine my teachers had also learned some wrong information. Wrong facts became entrenched long before computers and the Internet. (And ALL histories <studies> are revisionist.) Until recently, teachers in our country went to "normal" school, not regular college or university.

However, I can tell you that for the most part my teachers were well-informed and rather intelligent and cross-trained in multiple disciplines. Today young teachers are also well-trained coming out of college and very knowledgeable.

I was told years ago never admit that you do not know something. Stall until you can find out. Nowadays, I understand why. If I can't answer something (way out there, not the easy stuff) the student whines to the principal.

As a teacher I can tell you that most students do not want to really learn since it is not valued in the home. "Where am I going to use this?" They do like to be entertained and expect it.

This is also why I trust Puck and Wom more then I trust our public school teachers, they wants to learn it on their own, and not just to pass a test. They dont have any agenda behind learning history other then to learn it, unlike some who try to use it as a "gotcha" moment to make someone else look dumb and to inflate their own ego and inflated self worth.

At first I thought you were still referring to teachers. I've known a few like that. Disparaging someone is non-productive. It doesn't help learning. Leading by example does.

I'm sorry that arrogant people have pointed out your mistakes. Get over it, blue. Rather than "feel dumb", learn from it, and appreciate the arrogant peoples help, knowing that it all does come back around. Or ignore it. And move on. And be nice to them on occasion.

My mom called it "killing them with kindness." It annoys the H377 out of your enemies.

[blue]

Well, blue, I can't speak about your school experience,

Then you should have stopped right here instead of pontificating on your experience.

However, I can tell you that for the most part my teachers were well-informed and rather intelligent and cross-trained in multiple disciplines. Today young teachers are also well-trained coming out of college and very knowledgeable.

So according to you, American teachers are well informed enough to teach High School kids the entire Australian history? Can you?

HS American History class barely scratches the surface, that is why there are college majors in the subject.

I was told years ago never admit that you do not know something. Stall until you can find out. Nowadays, I understand why. If I can't answer something (way out there, not the easy stuff) the student whines to the principal.

I prefer telling someone, "I dont know, but lets find out what or why." It just seems more honest then BSing someone.

ETA: When it comes out that you are BSing, stalling for time, your students, what does that do to your credibility as a teacher? My dad has the same attitude you do and he taught debate back in the '60s. Its a BS tactic that will bite you in the a$$.

As a teacher I can tell you that most students do not want to really learn since it is not valued in the home. "Where am I going to use this?" They do like to be entertained and expect it.

As a Wireman and crew chief I agree most of the younger generation just wants to be entertained. When I was in school we where there to learn not wait for the teacher to entertain us. The teachers I had where not entertainers the teachers today seem to be. If you wanted to be an entertainer maybe you should teach drama class.

At first I thought you were still referring to teachers. I've known a few like that. Disparaging someone is non-productive. It doesn't help learning. Leading by example does.

Public school teachers are limited in what they can and cant teach, its called a curriculum. Teachers follow it to get there students to pass tests in order to prove their worth as a teacher. If the student learns nothing other then how to pass those tests what have they learned? How to pass those tests. Music teachers would be an exemption.

I'm sorry that arrogant people have pointed out your mistakes. Get over it, blue. Rather than "feel dumb", learn from it, and appreciate the arrogant peoples help, knowing that it all does come back around. Or ignore it. And move on. And be nice to them on occasion.

Im sorry you feel arrogant enough to feel I think I "feel dumb". Ive taught apprentices geometry when they failed algebra in HS. Ive done what Educated Teachers have failed at with students they gave up on.

Can you calculate a electrical load for a 2500 square foot house? If I gave you the specs for a custom computer to be used for high definition video editing how long would it take you get me a build and cost list? I trained my own replacement for computer repair and virus mitigation at my last job.

Can I spell well or use good grammar most of the time? Ill be the first to answer no.

Do I "feel dumb"? Not from arrogant people on this board I dont. If IM on a job, any job, and I miss something obvious I should have noticed on my own, I may feel dumb until I get the mistake corrected then I feel pretty dang good about myself.

My mom called it "killing them with kindness." It annoys the H377 out of your enemies.

You should have listened to you mother, because she's right.

[wombat2u2004]

Thanks for the description of your studies, Wom. Very well-rounded! I also admire you for your interests in history and other subjects that you've explored on your own. (But did you ever learn to speak French?)

What with the agricultural concentration in your studies, do you do or have you done agricultural work?.. and/or what kind(s) of work?

You are most welcome.
No mate, never studied French. Not unless you refer to the first love of my life at age 17........ahhhhhhh Antionette....such memories....hee hee.
The smattering of French that I do know, has been acquired more recently because of my hunt for militaria on French internet sites, also Belgian and German....it pays to be able to roughly decipher a bit of their language.

As for Agriculture, I worked in that field for a little while after I left school, but then got involved in geology pretty heavily, did lots of mineral exploration and geophysical work, stuff like that. Then it was in the army for me, had the family expectations to fill, as each generation has in my family. Spent 3 years in Asia and 3 years here in Aussie, a total of 6 years in uniform.
I then got involved in building, had my own building company and ran that for many years until I decided to slow down a bit and become a building consultant. My last job was a two year stint at the Sydney Olympic Village as building consultant, ran the show down there until completion, just before the games started. Then after that I started a Law degree, and two years later when I was half way through it, I crashed. Crashed big time. I was in and out of veteran clinics for a while, and finally diagnosed with severe PTSD. Stuff that I had been through in Asia that had been buried inside my head started to surface, affecting my EVERYTHING. So Vets Affairs shut me down. I sold up all my property, moved to a quiet country town, so now I take it easy, have a 365 day a year holiday, and spend my time helping war widows, going on fossil digs, collecting militaria, spoiling my dogs and making a nuisance of myself on Pet Talk....hee hee.
And....that's my life.
But yeah, I do read a lot. History, Geology, Paleontology, Anthropology and Art are the main subjects.....and not just Australian, I approach those subjects knowing that the whole world has something to offer.

[wombat2u2004]

Let's see.. back when I was going to school growing up (1950s-early 60s), we studied American History (starting from Columbus's arrival, and in which we learned that Paul Revere made his famous ride in order to warn the colonists that the British were coming), and World History, which was mainly British and some other European history and touched briefly on other parts of the world.

As I recall, World History started all the way back with Mesopotamia and the Fertile Crescent between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers (now mostly in modern-day Iraq! ).. then the ancient Egyptians.. ancient Greeks and Romans.. the birth of Christ and the spread of Christianity, Crusades (presented as definite Good Guys vs. Bad Guys conflicts) and all.. then the Brits and onward..

Australia?... let me think...: One day someone (Captain Cook?) "discovered" it.. it became part of the British Empire... then the British Commonwealth.. and now it is an independent country. Does that cover it pretty well?

Yeah, that sounds about right. I did all that stuff in history to. It's interesting to know about other countries. It's good to travel to, and see first hand what one is interested in. I found the east coast of the USA very interesting, as I did the southern states, and Canada was great to. I had the opportunity of spending some time on the west coast, but opted out of that as I didn't think it had very much to offer.....it's sort of too touristy and Mickey Mouseish.
Australia is good tho. If you ever have the chance to get here, go for it.

[wombat2u2004]

I'm sorry that arrogant people have pointed out your mistakes. Get over it, blue. Rather than "feel dumb", learn from it, and appreciate the arrogant peoples help, knowing that it all does come back around. Or ignore it. And move on. And be nice to them on occasion.

My mom called it "killing them with kindness." It annoys the H377 out of your enemies.

I don't ignore them....no way. I give back as good as I receive.
Arrogant people and those who belittle others generally have deep issues, and their arrogance is usually borne out of their unhappiness and problems in life.
Nibble at them, I say. Meet one insult with another in return.
I mean, who really cares about rude people anyway ??? They deserve every bit of crap that comes back at them.....hee hee.

[wombat2u2004]

What I remember learning about Australia is that it was used by the British as a place to send the "unwanted" of society - criminals and paupers.

And I believe (thanks to a wonderfully clear video ChrisH posted here) that Australia is still a part of the Commonwealth.

Wow !!! You know all that ??? I'm impressed.
So....is there anything else you know ???? About anything I mean.

[mrspunkysmom]

I don't ignore them....no way. I give back as good as I receive.
Arrogant people and those who belittle others generally have deep issues, and their arrogance is usually borne out of their unhappiness and problems in life.
Nibble at them, I say. Meet one insult with another in return.
I mean, who really cares about rude people anyway ??? They deserve every bit of crap that comes back at them.....hee hee.

That is one method. Sadly, too many of them will complain about you to your boss so that's why I suggest the other method.

I had to deal with an arrogant inclusion teacher in a classroom a few years back. He would belittle me and correct me in front of the kids. When I said something to him but not in front of the kids, he reported me. My principle at the time was understanding. However, she said I had to find a way of dealing with him.

Some of those arrogant people are just close-minded bigoted socially-ignorant SLOBS, who are unable to empathize with other people.

[wombat2u2004]

Some of those arrogant people are just close-minded bigoted socially-ignorant SLOBS, who are unable to empathize with other people.

Oh I agree, their arrogance is only a fascade. Their true self isn't worth knowing.