Sadie just won't listen to me!! Help!!!!!!

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Sadie won't ever listen to me! When I give her a obedience command, I have to say it over and over again! When I say sit, she sits, (sometimes), when I say lay down, I have to say it once or twice, and when I say heel, she does it most of the time, and when I say stand, she won't do it at all unless I put my hand on her belly, and kinda lift her up, and I tell her to drop, she just sits there! Sometimes she's so bad, I cry! I thought Labs where the smartest dogs, and they are, as a lot of other breeds are. Could someone please help me with this? Is it me, or her?

LabLover

[KYS]

LabLover,
Please don't be upset with Sadie or yourself.
Lab's are very smart dogs and they are also
perpetual puppies too. Always wanting
to play.
One of the first things I learned was
never to repeat a comand more than once.
If you give the command to sit, and
Saddie doesn't listen, you than
correct her by leash into the sit command.
(no second command)
How about taking Sadie to a local
obediece class? I bet you both will
have fun. Once the instructor teaches
you how to teach Sadie, than
you can teach Sadie on your own.
I still take Rocky to obedience.
I actually enjoy going.
If you do not have a local obedience
class in your area, you might
even go to your local library and
check out a training book/watch a vidio tape on training.
Dr. Ian Dunbar's Sirius Training is a popular one. Don't dispair Sadie
is so smart, she just knows she can
get away with stuff.

[ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: KYS ]

[aly]

LabLover, don't panic just yet As KYS said, you should only say a command ONE time, otherwise the commands will just become noise to their ears and they won't really know what to do. If she doesn't do it the first time, just stand still and ignore her until she does it. When she eventually does it, PRAISE her like you've never praised before!!!!!!!! Verbal, treats, pets, whatever works.

Training dogs can be compared to Vegas casinos. Think about gamblers who sit there at the slot machines pulling and pulling the levers. Let's say they won some money on their second pull. They're going to keep playing and playing because they won once and may win again. Dogs are the same way. If they get rewarded for something, they will continue the behavior in hopes that they will get rewarded again. You can vary the rewards while you're training. Start out with lower value treats. If she is not wanting to work for them, change to a higher value treat so you have some bargaining power. An example of a lower value treat is something your dog likes, but not a favorite (ie: cheerios, milk bones, etc). A higher value treat could be something like cheese, peanut butter, Pupperoni, or anything smelly like that. I'm sure you know Sadie's favorites already.

Obedience class is also fun and educational. You can call your local Humane Society and ask if they have classes. If they don't, they may be able to direct you to a place that will give classes.

Remember to make training sessions short. If Sadie gets bored, the training will not be very effective. Keep daily training sessions interesting and brief.

Labs are very smart and playful dogs. Just stay in control, be positive, and have fun! With a little work, you and Sadie will have much improvement!

[TollSettFK]

How old is Sadie? I know that sometimes one years old is a very hard age...They don't seem to listen.

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Thank you so much everybody! TollSettFK, Sadie is 5 years old now. Today, my dad and I went to Petco, and got Sadie a new toy for Agility, (it's a Tennis-Ball Bone, it looks kinda like a Dumbell), and I got a book on Dog Training!

[Dixieland Dancer]

Is it possible that your dog just doesn't understand the commands you are giving. If the dog has never had a strong understanding of the commands it could be that you are just thinking she understands what you want.

It is never too late for obedience!!!!! Older dogs can learn new tricks it just takes a little more patience! Even if you think your Sadie understands you, it sounds like their might be some confusion going on. It may even be a dominance thing where she doesn't regard you as Alpha (the pack leader).

My suggestion is to go back to basic obedience and start from the ground up. Find an obedience club that you can take classes at. Positive reinforcement obedience classes seem to have better results for my dogs than the correct by choke methods.

Postpone, (or work in conjuntion with) Agility training. You need basic obedience skills in order to have your dog understand what is expected in agility too! Fundamentals can never be replaced and all dog work incorporates basic obedience so make sure it is down pat before moving on. You can learn obedience from a book or video but I STRONGLY SUGGEST classes. Trained instructors are able to pick up things you might not even be aware of!

Happy Training

[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: Dixieland Dancer ]

[ilovehounds]

I don't have anything different to say then whats already been said .... good advice

But Please take your time in training Sadie.
I have had Copper for almost two years and he is still not the most obediant boy in the world He has just never had training before and its confusing for him. The best advice I can give is only work with Sadie for 15 - 20 min. at a time, dogs get bored and then you get frustrated. Time and practice, Copper is no where near ready to start agility yet, (thats okey by him because he has no intrest in it) but someday I hope he will join Hannah and I in our agility time.

Im sure Sadie will be much faster to train, Copper has had a rough life and I like to work with him slow and quietly.

[carrie]

I have been going nuts the last couple of days! My keyboard suddenly decided to work for some things and not for others and then to put it's own letters to the keys that were pressed - so I would try to write an e and it would appear on the screen as a z! I am not a very computer know how sort of person so I thought remove the keyboard and then reinstall it....
Worked fine until the computer asked for the Windows 98 CD.
To cut a very long and frustrating story short it turns out that my husband, who is the computer wizard in this house and also away at the moment, keeps this CD in a Kodak case so he knows where it is if he needs it in a hurry!!!!!!
I didn't know this because.......WHY WOULD ANYONE DO THAT????!!!!!

Well, I just wanted to say that I ( are you all ready for this?....it will be a shock..) totally agree with Dixieland Dancer on this one. It had to happen one day, Candi!!
It sounds to me that your dog just doesn't understand the commands to a sufficient level.
Go back to basics, and look at the way you reward too - maybe there is not enough incentive for your dog to comply.
This is a mistake that you should be glad of in a way, you have a sweet dog that is not taking too much advantage and giving you loads of experience. Everyone who ever thinks they will train a dog needs to learn something every day - you can't do this by reading books or listening to other people, although that is invaluable. You need to make mistakes and learn through them. You have the desire to learn, to teach your dog and a supportive family. It's not as bad as you think. Take a couple of days off, make friends with your dog again, make a clear training plan and go for it.
One more thing - it is perfectly alright to say a command twice while your dog is learning - if it doesn't comply the first time you show it what you mean gently but firmly and repeat the command. When the dog can respond to the command, in a quiet place, 10 times out 10 you can then say that the dog knows what you want and only then are you fair to correct. Getting angry is going to confuse the dog and the dog will spend more time trying to figure out how to avoid this reaction from you than working out how to please you. If you feel yourself getting angry or upset stop! Give the dog one command that you know it will comply with.....it doesn't matter what it is, for instance:- on a lead and chain have the dog close to you and ask it to sit while putting your hand on it's rump and pressing down. The dog will do what it is asked, be rewarded, and you will end the training session with the dog feeling positive and you can go and calm down.
When the "leader of the pack" is not in control of his or her own emotions you can not expect the followers to be at ease.

[Dixieland Dancer]

Carrie,
I don't know about anyone else but I was in shock! Although we knew it was bound to happen sooner or later, didn't we! I want you to know that I always look forward to your posts for valuable input and advice (even if I don't always agree totally all the time). LOL

[ktreva52]

Well, it's been a while since this was posted and you got some really good advice. So, how is Sadie getting on? I'm with most of the answers here -- especially the ones about one command. Did you know that your dog will learn to count and will respond on the command # whatever (the one YOU finally make the dog do whatever the command was)? Having shown in obedience classes and worked with dogs for years, one of the things I used to tell my students is one command only. If the dog does not respond right away (or at all), you place the dog in the position and then praise like the dickens. BUT, let's look at how you are giving the commands. Are you doing it in a questioning voice? In a quiet voice? Are you doing it out of frustration? Are you using the same commands for the same things all the time? Is everyone else in the family using the same commands? Have you had the dog's hearing checked? Frequently, it is difficult to get the dog to respond to a command if she/he doesn't think you mean it or they think you'll repeat the command x number of times before they have to obey. It is probably best to do your basic obedience work on leash even in the house. That way, you have a "handle" on the dog. Use your "karate voice", that is, the strong, firm voice that comes from the diaphragm almost like a karate yell. One word commands are best like, "sit" vs. "sit down". Down is the usual command for lie down and could be confusing to the dog if used in conjunction with the sit command. It doesn't matter if you use "boo" to mean sit, but the key is consistency in commands. Whatever command you use for each action, it must be the same command everytime from everyone that interacts with the dog.

I, of course, advocate obedience classes for socialization purposes and for help working with the dog, but it would be best to go to one where positive reinforcement is the rule rather than the more physical methods of jerk and pull. For instance, while Sadie is on the leash, you would take a treat and make her aware of it in your hand. Keeping the leash steady, give her the sit command and bring the treat up and over her head so she has to lean backward to keep track of it. Eventually, she'll sit because she can't crane her neck that much. Give her the treat immediately and praise her. Keep on this track for about a week of 15 minute sessions daily and she should have the sit in hand (or paw). The following week, put her in the sit and with a treat, give her the down command and bring the treat down between her front paws and slowly drag it out forward. You may have to put your hand on her backside to keep it down, as she will most likely get up and walk after the treat. As soon as she "downs", she gets the goodie.

The down and the stay are the two hardest commands to teach any dog as the former puts the dog in a submissive and vulnerable position and the latter is very etheric and hard to "show" how to do. But, persistence, consistency and patience will work wonders.

The first command we used to teach at PetsMart was the "watch me" command. It would teach the dog to look at you and give you her attention. It is not always easy to teach, either, because eye contact is usually a challenge in the dog world. However, if you use feeding time as a training time for this command, she will learn it fairly easily. Reward her for the slightest glance at you to begin with and then expect a bit more. Once she will look you in the face, make sure it's a pleasant face to look into. She will not be willing to look at an angry or frustrated face for long. Look pleasant, give her a piece of her food for complying and lots of "What a good doggie"s. Then, after a few minutes of this, put down the food bowl and let her enjoy her dinner or breakfast in peace.

Well, another book posted. I'm sorry, but I do get carried away (no pun intended, Carrie). I am passionate about this type of thing and want to help all I can. So, how is Sadie doing?