curious..are my dogs, just not normal?

[cali]

ok I have always laughed at people who say there is no such thing as dominance etc.. because well frankly my dogs would beg to differ lol then I read the artical below, and I was confused, because some of it does not fit my pack at all.

Dr. Frank Beach performed a 30-year study on dogs at Yale and UC Berkeley. Nineteen years of the study was devoted to social behavior of a dog pack. (Not a wolf pack. A DOG pack.) Some of his findings:

• Male dogs have a rigid hierarchy. my males do have a rigid heiarchy
• Female dogs have a hierarchy, but it's more variable. nope, my females heiarchy is even more rigid then my males
• When you mix the sexes, the rules get mixed up. Males try to follow their constitution, but the females have "amendments." nope, all my dogs have a very very rigid heiarchy
• Young puppies have what's called "puppy license." Basically, that license to do most anything. Bitches are more tolerant of puppy license than males are. this I agree with
• The puppy license is revoked at approximately four months of age. At that time, the older middle-ranked dogs literally give the puppy hell -- psychologically torturing it until it offers all of the appropriate appeasement behaviors and takes its place at the bottom of the social hierarchy. The top-ranked dogs ignore the whole thing. Misty and Blair were never at the bottom.
• There is NO physical domination. Everything is accomplished through psychological harassment. It's all ritualistic. *snort* tell that one to Misty and Shadow!
• A small minority of "alpha" dogs assumed their position by bullying and force. Those that did were quickly deposed. No one likes a dictator. funny, Shadow was alpha by force for years(7 to be exact), she was often challanged and always won. Misty also won by brute force, she is strong and she is young, she fought her way to the top, and she has been there for 3 years, with no signs of toppling yet, every random dog knows damn well that Misty is top lol
• The vast majority of alpha dogs rule benevolently. They are confident in their position. They do not stoop to squabbling to prove their point. To do so would lower their status because... Misty yes, once she secured herself at the top she rules calmly, she prevents fights, and all she has to do is walk up to the fighters lol Shadow however I think just enjoyed fighting lol
• Middle-ranked animals squabble. They are insecure in their positions and want to advance over other middle-ranked animals. they did when Misty allowed it, but since she has become secure as alpha she wont allow it.
• Low-ranked animals do not squabble. They know they would lose. They know their position, and they accept it. ROTFLMAO, perhaps someone outa have told this to my 2 lowest ranked pooches?
• "Alpha" does not mean physically dominant. It means "in control of resources." Many, many alpha dogs are too small or too physically frail to physically dominate. But they have earned the right to control the valued resources. An individual dog determines which resources he considers important. Thus an alpha dog may give up a prime sleeping place because he simply couldn't care less. Misty wont, she likes whats hers and too bad to anyone else lol just ask Visa, half the time we were there Misty would not let poor Visa in her own living room lol and how did Misty earn the right to control the resouces of a dog she had never met on the other dogs territory? the Alpha dog in my house is not the largest dog, but she is the strongest dog, when Shadow ruled, SHE was the strongest dog, it was only when a younger stronger dog came along that she got ousted. Perky is small and older, she is the oldest in my house and has lived here the second longest, she WANTS to be higher up, yet she is second from the bottom, she is not at all content with this and starts squabbles every single day.

[Glacier]

Interesting. I see a lot of this in my pack.

Male dogs have a rigid hierarchy.
My alpha dog is a male and he's been alpha forever.

Female dogs have a hierarchy, but it's more variable.
My females don't have a hierarchy. The three who live in the main yard don't care about being dominant at all. Two others have their own small packs where they are supreme ruler and will use force if they have to. The other female is so dog aggressive she can not function as a pack animal at all.

When you mix the sexes, the rules get mixed up. Males try to follow their constitution, but the females have "amendments."
Only the alpha dog remain rigid in my pack. Everyone else's pack order position changes all the time.

Young puppies have what's called "puppy license." Basically, that license to do most anything. Bitches are more tolerant of puppy license than males are. Absolutely.

The puppy license is revoked at approximately four months of age. At that time, the older middle-ranked dogs literally give the puppy hell -- psychologically torturing it until it offers all of the appropriate appeasement behaviors and takes its place at the bottom of the social hierarchy. The top-ranked dogs ignore the whole thing.
Never saw any of that. Puppy liscense was revoked somewhat later, maybe at 6 months. I think because Muskwa is so dominant, the puppies who followed him never thought to question his authority.

There is NO physical domination. Everything is accomplished through psychological harassment. It's all ritualistic.
Absolutely. My alpha never fights, never starts the fights that do happen. I've never seen Muskwa in a real fight. I've seen him plenty of times look and sound like he was fighting, but without any force.

A small minority of "alpha" dogs assumed their position by bullying and force. Those that did were quickly deposed. No one likes a dictator. It has been attempted and quickly put down. There are a few lower ranking dogs who use physical domination on dogs even lower in the order. Muskwa usually steps in and puts a stop to that.

The vast majority of alpha dogs rule benevolently. They are confident in their position. They do not stoop to squabbling to prove their point. To do so would lower their status.
Absolutely. Muskwa rules with a velvet paw, never with aggression or force.

Middle-ranked animals squabble. They are insecure in their positions and want to advance over other middle-ranked animals.
Nothing worse than a Beta Bully! Hoodoo was a Beta Bully, but smart enough to never challenge Muskwa for alpha! Middle of the pack dogs cause almost every fight around here, always with lower or equal dogs. We had the most fights shortly after Hoodoo died as they tried to work out who was second in command

Low-ranked animals do not squabble. They know they would lose. They know their position, and they accept it.
Almost never see low ranking dogs fighting. A low ranking dog gets picked on here, sometimes, but they never start the fights. Earle is at the bottom of the pack order and has never even gotten involved in a pack fight.

"Alpha" does not mean physically dominant. It means "in control of resources." Many, many alpha dogs are too small or too physically frail to physically dominate. But they have earned the right to control the valued resources. An individual dog determines which resources he considers important. Thus an alpha dog may give up a prime sleeping place because he simply couldn't care less.
Yup, somedays Muskwa doesn't care what the other dogs do and they can take the bones, toys, and best spots. Somedays he won't let them. Muskwa never cares about food and always lets the other dogs eat when and where they want. Heyoka weighs close to triple what Muskwa does and could easily physically dominant him. He doesn't bother.

In general, I don't give a hoot about their pack order. I am the boss of all of them. I will not tolerate aggression or fights in my yard. They happen because of the sheer number of dogs here, but I don't care who started it or what their pack position is. Any dog involved in a fight, no matter how minor, gets punished. If they can work out their order without fighting, I just let them do so.

[GreyhoundDaddy]

Maybe it's just me, but I think that if a professor who is tenured at Berkely and Harvard is commissioned to do a 30-year study, that he has a little more insight than you do.

[lizbud]

Maybe it's just me, but I think that if a professor who is tenured at Berkely and Harvard is commissioned to do a 30-year study, that he has a little more insight than you do.

I think you were right the first time. It's just you.

[GreyhoundDaddy]

And what's YOUR degree in? And where'd YOU study?

Exactly.

[cali]

what exactly is your problem? of coarse he has more insight then I do, thats why I was confused because MY OWN PACK does NOT follow many of the 'rules', I was confused and wondering if my own pack was simpley odd.